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Old 07-29-2010, 07:04 PM   #1
Jagular1785
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Default Project Motor 97 2.2l

So I got to thinking about doing a turbo build on my 97 obs about a year ago. Gave it quite abit of thought, drew up a few ideas on the forums. Then about March, I lost compression on one side of my motor and so I spent a good 400$ buying a junkyard motor and rebuilding it and now have my motor sitting in my garage, ready to be built on.

However, the more and more I looked into turboing, the more horror stories I heard of people breaking transmissions. I told myself that I would never get to that level of power, but in all reality I know that the want for more power would eventually push me to crank up the power and eventually blow the transmission. So I decided that I could save my transmission and a bit of money if I decided to go with a moderately built NA EJ22.



I would really like to hit 200hp, but just getting in that area would be fine.
Would these mods plus a good tune get me there?

-HC pistons of some sort 11-12 CR?: I need to be able run premium pump gas, so what CR could I use practically?

-I'm going use some dual port phase I heads from a 95 Legacy. I'm planning on getting some serious head/valve work done to these.

-Delta Cams 2000 grind

-Intake: I have an older ecu, so would it be safe to assume I can only use the hybrid setup willty discussed? Or might I be able to safely tune the resonance out on MY ecu?

-Exhaust-I have a 2.5" catback and header; need to get a better cat section though.

-Engine Management: I've heard I would benifit from a higher redline, is there a piggyback that could do this? I don't think the PP6 can, but that has been suggested to me.

This is a daily driver, so I want it to be drivable on the street and can use pump gas (albiet premium, but still pump gas). Thoughts?
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Old 07-29-2010, 09:38 PM   #2
grafton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagular1785 View Post
I would really like to hit 200hp, but just getting in that area would be fine.
Would these mods plus a good tune get me there?

-HC pistons of some sort 11-12 CR?: I need to be able run premium pump gas, so what CR could I use practically?

12:1 static compression with the stock cam yields an un-streetable 10:1 dynamic compression, however with the torque grind it was at the limit of 93 octane @ 9.4:1 dynamic dont know what the hp grind would do to the dynamic compression


-I'm going use some dual port phase I heads from a 95 Legacy. I'm planning on getting some serious head/valve work done to these.

working on a set right now not much room to work with but improvements can be made

-Delta Cams 2000 grind

-Intake: I have an older ecu, so would it be safe to assume I can only use the hybrid setup willty discussed? Or might I be able to safely tune the resonance out on MY ecu?

the intake issue is way down in the rev range, to old i believe to be tuned out and willty said if you tune out the problem you introduce problems elsewhere, so hybrid is your best bet

-Exhaust-I have a 2.5" catback and header; need to get a better cat section though.

UEL or EL header, more power with EL...

-Engine Management: I've heard I would benifit from a higher redline, is there a piggyback that could do this? I don't think the PP6 can, but that has been suggested to me.

the pp6 will tune your setup just fine but not raise the redline, I'm not sure how you would on such an old ecu

This is a daily driver, so I want it to be drivable on the street and can use pump gas (albiet premium, but still pump gas). Thoughts?
and on top of all that:
use your 97 lifters SLA's are better than HLA's
use your 97 intake manifold it was redesigned in 97 to flow better

good luck finding custom pistons,
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Old 07-29-2010, 10:13 PM   #3
Jagular1785
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Default

So at 12:1 with stock profiles, it would be way too much and with the tq grinds, on the edge. Would 11:1 or 11:5 be usable? Or is the stock 9.7:1 pretty much the limit? I don't know much anything about static vs dynamic compression or the pre-detonation limits of certain octane fuel, so please pardon the noobishness.

I haven't torn into the Legacy heads yet, but do the HLAs and SLAs transfer between heads? Would you know off hand how much improvement you think these heads could get and how much someone would charge for doing it? (again sorry for being a noob)

I have an UEL header and am planning on keeping the boxer rumble. I might take a hit there, but oh well.

Ok, I can leave the redline where it is, its not overly important. Especially if it is difficult or impossible to mess with the limiter.

And I'll definitely look into willty's thread on the hybrid to make one for me.

Thanks for the help!
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Old 07-30-2010, 07:57 AM   #4
eppoh
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I believe the phase 2 motor ( 2.2) has 10:1compression from the factory. Different head and pistons. I think there is room to raise that slightly by shaving the heads. However, they are single port exhaust.
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Old 07-30-2010, 11:10 AM   #5
grafton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagular1785 View Post
So at 12:1 with stock profiles, it would be way too much and with the tq grinds, on the edge. Would 11:1 or 11:5 be usable? Or is the stock 9.7:1 pretty much the limit? I don't know much anything about static vs dynamic compression or the pre-detonation limits of certain octane fuel, so please pardon the noobishness.

haven't done the math for other static ratios effecting the dynamic ( the "real" compression that accounts for the valves being open etc... ) people get by with 11.5:1 static and the stock cams when building the "frankenmotors" (2.2/2.5 hybrid)

the 9.4:1 dynamic is from the muscle car community,
noobishness pardoned i am still one myself


I haven't torn into the Legacy heads yet, but do the HLAs and SLAs transfer between heads? Would you know off hand how much improvement you think these heads could get and how much someone would charge for doing it? (again sorry for being a noob)

they better, they bolt in the same, and i am swapping the hla's out of my 95 heads for the sla's in my 97, don't know what kind of gain you'll get between the two but subaru thought they were better, so who am i to argue

I have an UEL header and am planning on keeping the boxer rumble. I might take a hit there, but oh well.

Ok, I can leave the redline where it is, its not overly important. Especially if it is difficult or impossible to mess with the limiter.

And I'll definitely look into willty's thread on the hybrid to make one for me.

Thanks for the help!
Quote:
Originally Posted by eppoh View Post
I believe the phase 2 motor ( 2.2) has 10:1compression from the factory. Different head and pistons. I think there is room to raise that slightly by shaving the heads. However, they are single port exhaust.
very true but that's static compression, static and dynamic are different beasts.
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Old 07-30-2010, 12:58 PM   #6
Jagular1785
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Yes the phase II motors has 10:1, however, my impreza motor is a phase I with 9.7:1 and has single port heads.
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Old 07-30-2010, 01:23 PM   #7
chazly413
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The ELs will really help you squeeze out more power if you come up short of your goal.
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Old 07-30-2010, 01:39 PM   #8
Jagular1785
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grafton View Post
very true but that's static compression, static and dynamic are different beasts.
Ok, sounds good. I'm hoping I can get ahold of a piston manufacturer sometime soon and see what they quote me. But I hope that, combined with the cams, 11:5 would be a good number to shoot for seeing that the dynamic will change for the better in this case and leave me a decent 'cushion' of room so I don't end up breaking things.

Yeah, the heads are definitely better considering my impreza heads are single ports and the leg is dual. That is a definite improvement for even just bolting it on, let alone getting a Pnp or even opening them up more.

On another note, I'm also going to upgrade headbolts for this. I might as well considering I snapped one taking my heads off the motor . And yeah, its still in there, but I have about 3 inches sticking out so I should be able to get it.
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Old 07-30-2010, 04:04 PM   #9
grafton
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what do you mean by "upgrade"?
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Old 07-30-2010, 09:09 PM   #10
Jagular1785
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Well, if possible buy stronger ones. Maybe not, but I do need a new set, so I figured that if I can find a stronger set for slightly more, then I'd go with it. Otherwise I'll just get another set.
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Old 07-31-2010, 04:15 AM   #11
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Good luck on your project. I hope it turns out well.
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Old 08-01-2010, 01:09 AM   #12
Jagular1785
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Thanks everyone.

Would anyone foresee me needing to upgrade injectors or would the PP6 and/or upping the fuel pressure be enough? I'm not sure on the injector size for a phase I EJ22, are they 250cc?

I have read that the rods in my motor are forged already, is this true and/or should I be upgrading the rods for the upped compression? I wasn't planning on replacing them.
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Old 08-07-2010, 02:43 PM   #13
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not to try and hijack or anything but where would one find out which phase motor i have and which 2.5l heads would fit? your project has me pumped to try and beef my 2.2l up. im running a 98 2.2l impreza L. and ive heard of throwing some 2.5l heads on there but cant find any info as to which 1s fit and what parts are swapable. any help would be awesome and keep us posted on your project.
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Old 08-18-2010, 04:26 PM   #14
Jagular1785
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maticus74- I have also heard of doing this, but I also have heard that the water jackets may not line up. I don't know whether this is true or not, but looking at the way the water jackets are and how the heads are designed, (at least mine) the heads have small water ports and the water jacket doesn't line up much of anything. I would guess that as long as the ports are in the water jacket, it would work. But again, I don't know. As for what phase motor you have, I'm pretty sure they switched to phase 2 in 97. Does your exhaust have single or dual ports? EDIT I found out that it is possible, read next post!

I have talked with some piston manufacturers and I'm thinking wiesco. They are among the cheapest quotes I got and are a very good name. They quoted me a base of 700$. Most of the others wanted at least 800$.

And I called delta cams, and apparently my motor actually has a different type of cam profile so the 1000 and 2000 grinds aren't what I would be using. But they have a 220 and 230 grind that I can choose from and essentially get the same result. (220 is a torque grind and 230 is a power grind) And they also do porting and polishing. So I can send my heads off to them and have all of this done for 600$ which is a heck of a deal considering the shops around me were starting at 1000$ for just pnp.

So hopefully this will start coming together and I'm hoping to have this project complete by the end of next summer.

Last edited by Jagular1785; 10-06-2010 at 09:23 PM.
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Old 10-06-2010, 09:22 PM   #15
Jagular1785
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After some more reading and talking with Delta some more, it turns out that getting cams on my heads would require finding some flat tappets which I have never heard of nor seen anywhere. So I looked into other areas to get cams and found an answer that would help maticus74, and I answered you incorrectly.

It turns out that the heads off of an EJ25 will work, but you will find a significant compression drop. But you'll get significantly more flow as well. So I have decided that I'll go with 2.5 heads and since I'm getting custom pistons, I can compensate for the compression differences and much better flow. All around a good deal. And I probably won't need a PnP since they do flow that much better. What does everyone think?
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