Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Saturday July 26, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > Proven Power Bragging

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-13-2012, 08:11 PM   #1
Dave D.
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 130990
Join Date: Nov 2006
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Menzel Lake, WA
Vehicle:
06 Red Ltd.Wagon
I need a new tuner!

Default Torquier HTA68 tune 383/405

This is my last hta68 tune post, I'm guessing. Dom did a quick retune after installing a JDM 6-speed, bigger injectors and an ETS intercooler -- ready to go bigger in the future now. Peak HP/TQ virtually identical to last tune -- 387/411 last time, now 383/405. But average hp went up by 4, and average tq went up went up by 11. TQ hits early and stays flat for quite some time. Smoother powerband now, and combined with the JDM tranny it's always ready to boost.

Shop: Maxwell Power Services
Location: Arlington, WA
Ambient Temp: About 50 degrees F
Elevation: 200 feet
Weather: Cloudy

Car: 2006 WRX
Tuner: Dominic
Dyno Info: Dynocom
Transmission: JDM 6-speed
Gear:4th
Peak HP at RPM: 382.9 @6100 rpm (about 340 on a Mustang)
Peak Torque at RPM: 404.5 @ 4200 rpm (about 360 on a Mustang), but it hits 350 by 3400.
Baseline hp/tq for a stock Sti on same dyno: 235/235

Target Boost: 21.8 psi
Target AFR: 10.7
Fuel: 92 pump

Engine/Power Modifications: HTA68 with 10cm hotside installed by Dom, Helix catted downpipe, ETS intercooler, Invidia Q300 catback, Gimmick inlet hose, 1000cc injectors, Walbro fuel pump, APS Cold air intake, Agency Power UEL header, TGV deletes, Grimmspeed Uppipe, Prosport MBC for hybrid boost control.

I went with a Maxwell Power Factor SS EJ257 with some B25 heads. The block has JE pistons, H-beam rods, ACL bearings and is balanced/blueprinted. I also added some stronger springs and 264 exhaust cams, plus an Accessport so that Dom could do a speed density tune. A post-intercooler IAT sensor helps keep things safer.

Driveline Modifications: JDM 6-speed, stock Sti clutch
Suspension Modifications: Whiteline F/R swaybars, Stoptech stage 2 brakes
Tires: Federal SS595 215/45/17 on stock WRX wheels.

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

Last edited by Dave D.; 12-13-2012 at 11:33 PM.
Dave D. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2012, 08:45 PM   #2
st205wrx
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 193253
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Niles
Vehicle:
08 wrx 322/352
wrb

Default

nice power ban
st205wrx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2012, 08:47 PM   #3
nightcrawler60
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 126438
Join Date: Sep 2006
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: South Los Angeles/S.D
Vehicle:
2004 Impreza
#Winning

Default

Damn that b nice y0.
nightcrawler60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 08:29 AM   #4
thisisntjared
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 177891
Join Date: Apr 2008
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: south jersey
Vehicle:
06 wrx wagon
child seat/tow hitch cgm

Default

That early torque looks delicious!! Part of me wonders if you go to a 20g, will it be enough of an improvement... I guess if you keep the 10cm turbine housing it should. Great numbers for the 68!
thisisntjared is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 10:30 AM   #5
All4bSpinnin
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 99102
Join Date: Oct 2005
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Jax, FL
Vehicle:
08 Corvette Z06
problem Traction?

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by st205wrx View Post
nice power band
fixed
All4bSpinnin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 04:34 PM   #6
FCmaniac
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 142029
Join Date: Feb 2007
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA
Vehicle:
2013 Forester
2004 STi, 1991 Miata BRG

Default

I've always been impressed with your numbers and what you've been able to get out of the 68. It looks like a great daily setup.
FCmaniac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 07:32 PM   #7
Dave D.
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 130990
Join Date: Nov 2006
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Menzel Lake, WA
Vehicle:
06 Red Ltd.Wagon
I need a new tuner!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FCmaniac View Post
I've always been impressed with your numbers and what you've been able to get out of the 68. It looks like a great daily setup.
Dom and Co. are the Man.
Dave D. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2012, 12:09 AM   #8
KurtP
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 44836
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Vehicle:
1999 Fozzy
silver

Default

I might have missed another update, but why are you only running 21psi, and why did you use 264deg cams, and why only on the exhaust side?

just curious. power band is nice. youve been the old faithful to that hta68. I think it would shine at 26psi and your motor/trans could certainly hold it.
KurtP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2012, 01:17 PM   #9
Slimsti
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 155696
Join Date: Aug 2007
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: New Jersey
Vehicle:
2007 BLK STI Dom3XTR
415/405 Precision Tuning

Default

That's such nice power for 68. Dom knows his stuff. That torque down low must feel insane
Slimsti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2012, 02:34 PM   #10
AnointedDrummer
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 165617
Join Date: Dec 2007
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: WRXcellence:)LaGrande, Oregon
Vehicle:
2007 4sale!STAGE2WRX
Blur of UrbanGreyMetallic

Default

After much researching and comparing the red, green, plus many others, I've concluded that when it's time to upgrade the turbo I'll probably choose the FP 68hta. Thanks for the post.


OR the FP 71hta. Thanks Slimsti.


Last edited by AnointedDrummer; 12-15-2012 at 04:45 PM.
AnointedDrummer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2012, 01:04 AM   #11
Maxwell Power
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 190729
Join Date: Oct 2008
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Marysville, WA
Default

There are much better turbos than the hta68 for about the same price. If you want to spend a little more the Blouch DOM 1.5XTR is my new favorite turbo. Over 400whp on pump gas, full boost around 3600rpm.

the 264 exhaust cams make a pretty big difference. They are responsible for the wider power band. They provide more overlap when utilizing AVCS giving faster spool and flatter torque and they keep VE higher on the top end providing more HP.
Maxwell Power is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2012, 07:17 AM   #12
stretchedk7
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 170602
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: j-ville fl
Vehicle:
06 Wrx RWD Auto
76MM-AEM-2200's

Default

Not a fan of the hta68 myself either. There's so may other turbos out now that will out perform them in every way
stretchedk7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2012, 08:43 AM   #13
west_minist
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 53451
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Caribbean
Vehicle:
2000 JDM Impreza SRX
w/ AVCS Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Power View Post
There are much better turbos than the hta68 for about the same price. If you want to spend a little more the Blouch DOM 1.5XTR is my new favorite turbo. Over 400whp on pump gas, full boost around 3600rpm.

the 264 exhaust cams make a pretty big difference. They are responsible for the wider power band. They provide more overlap when utilizing AVCS giving faster spool and flatter torque and they keep VE higher on the top end providing more HP.
Ok stock intake cams then?

Yes the 1.5XTR is a sweet turbo for street. Not too much power and not too much boost to get where you are going.

Nice work Dom, Merry Xmas.
west_minist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2012, 12:19 PM   #14
2011boostdwrx
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 263470
Join Date: Nov 2010
Default

My HTA68 on my 2011 WRX full stage 2 on a mustang dyno was 363/350 or so w/1:1 HSF-2 meth 23.5 PSI. I just upgraded to the Kamak 20GTX billet STS 9-blade, so i guess I will see what the difference is. The HTA68 was incredable around the street (w/FMIc), so intrested to see how the 20G performs. As far as it being a neck snapping turbo no, but it loved meth esspcially around 23.5 psi. Now with a fully built block. 6-spd swap, ELH, AEM MAP, I hoping for al least 400 whp on that same dyno.
2011boostdwrx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2012, 12:44 PM   #15
Maxwell Power
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 190729
Join Date: Oct 2008
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Marysville, WA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2011boostdwrx View Post
My HTA68 on my 2011 WRX full stage 2 on a mustang dyno was 363/350 or so w/1:1 HSF-2 meth 23.5 PSI. I just upgraded to the Kamak 20GTX billet STS 9-blade, so i guess I will see what the difference is. The HTA68 was incredable around the street (w/FMIc), so intrested to see how the 20G performs. As far as it being a neck snapping turbo no, but it loved meth esspcially around 23.5 psi. Now with a fully built block. 6-spd swap, ELH, AEM MAP, I hoping for al least 400 whp on that same dyno.
Stop buying cheap turbos. You get what you pay for. There is no magic cheap turbo.
Maxwell Power is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2012, 01:10 PM   #16
reid-o
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 103631
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mililani, Hawaii
Vehicle:
2004 STI
Black

Default

Is this program running stock intake cams with aftermarket exhaust cams? I saw a few threads alluding to this combo, but I never saw or heard of results. Just curious. I just never thought it was possible to buy half a set.
reid-o is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2012, 01:22 PM   #17
2011boostdwrx
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 263470
Join Date: Nov 2010
Default

MAXWELL , Kamak is not a "cheap" turbo by any means and the 20GTX STS billet goes for $1650.00. Kamak is well proven in the Ausie community and I do not feel this is a "cheap" turbo at all.

As far I am concerned as well as my tuner this is a quiality part, but we will see.
2011boostdwrx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2012, 10:31 PM   #18
Dave D.
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 130990
Join Date: Nov 2006
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Menzel Lake, WA
Vehicle:
06 Red Ltd.Wagon
I need a new tuner!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by reid-o View Post
Is this program running stock intake cams with aftermarket exhaust cams? I saw a few threads alluding to this combo, but I never saw or heard of results. Just curious. I just never thought it was possible to buy half a set.
Dom had a spare set when he built my motor, and Craig, his assembler, suggested the springs while we were at it.

I have studied a lot of hta68 results and graphs, and it is my personal opinion that this turbo needs the extra help on the exhaust side -- that's where the imbalance is -- especially on pump. Intake cams only seem to hurt this turbo imo. With the AVCS on the exhaust side, it makes an optimal setup for this turbo.

Dom didn't go further with the boost because I needed a bigger MAP -- and even then, I'm running straight 92 pump with a top mount -- he said there simply wasn't much more to gain.

Sounds like the 1.5XTR may be in my future -- you'll know when you see my hta68 up for sale.

Last edited by Dave D.; 12-17-2012 at 05:28 PM.
Dave D. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2012, 12:15 AM   #19
Paul
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 56203
Join Date: Feb 2004
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: south nj
Vehicle:
00 RSTI Coupe
Twin Scroll 2.5XTR EJ207

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Power View Post
the 264 exhaust cams make a pretty big difference. They are responsible for the wider power band. They provide more overlap when utilizing AVCS giving faster spool and flatter torque and they keep VE higher on the top end providing more HP.
Really?? A pretty big difference?

Not to take anything away from the OP since Im sure the car rips but do the cams really make that much of a difference? Peak hp at 6200 and peak tq at 4200 is similar to a stock head motor right? STI Mikey made similar numbers on his stock motor.
Paul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2012, 11:27 AM   #20
Dave D.
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 130990
Join Date: Nov 2006
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Menzel Lake, WA
Vehicle:
06 Red Ltd.Wagon
I need a new tuner!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul View Post
Really?? A pretty big difference?

Not to take anything away from the OP since Im sure the car rips but do the cams really make that much of a difference? Peak hp at 6200 and peak tq at 4200 is similar to a stock head motor right? STI Mikey made similar numbers on his stock motor.
That was on E85, though, wasn't it? It would be fun to put a race gas tune on my AP and see what it could do. On race gas maybe I'd have a shot at 11's.
Dave D. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2012, 11:28 AM   #21
Maxwell Power
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 190729
Join Date: Oct 2008
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Marysville, WA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul View Post
Really?? A pretty big difference?

Not to take anything away from the OP since Im sure the car rips but do the cams really make that much of a difference? Peak hp at 6200 and peak tq at 4200 is similar to a stock head motor right? STI Mikey made similar numbers on his stock motor.
Whatever man. You want to come in here and start an argument, huh?
This turbo has the 10cm2 exhaust housing. It spools much faster with the exhaust cams and I made better power on less boost than before.

So yes a big difference.
Maxwell Power is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2012, 12:22 PM   #22
KurtP
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 44836
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Vehicle:
1999 Fozzy
silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul View Post
Really?? A pretty big difference?

Not to take anything away from the OP since Im sure the car rips but do the cams really make that much of a difference? Peak hp at 6200 and peak tq at 4200 is similar to a stock head motor right? STI Mikey made similar numbers on his stock motor.
Yeah its a big difference. Its a 10cm hotside, its running less than 22psi, doesnt have a 50whp fall off from 6200-6500 like most wrx's do, and its probably not running a metric ton of timing up top the way other tuners here do.

Cams make a big difference on subaru motors like they do just about any other.... and Im not sure how this whole trend of "cams dont make any power on a subaru" even got started short of "i dont feel like pulling my motor to do cams, so this is what im going to use as a reason." or they cant afford the cams while they are replacing the broken piston....

The only thing I cant figure out is why the hell they didnt replace the intake cams with the exhaust ones while the motor was out.
KurtP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2012, 12:37 PM   #23
Maxwell Power
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 190729
Join Date: Oct 2008
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Marysville, WA
Default

We do what we can with the budget we're given. That budget is often defined by the customers' wife more than the customer himself. I can't say if that was the case or not, but when the OP said he only had a few more hundred he could put towards upgrades, that's the one I recommended.

On AVCS cars I frequently run larger exhaust cams than intake cams. On Non AVCS cars, it's the other way around.

When building engines and tuning there is a lot more than just the final power numbers and results. How you get there is the key. How much timing the engine needed to meet the goals, how much boost, how knock prone is the motor, how much back pressure is there on the engine, how does it feel on the foot and the most important one:
How hard did I have to work to get to that power level? If the engine tunes smoothly and shows that it isn't near the knock threshold and doesn't exhibit a sensitivity to certain parameters, it's a successful build. The addition of larger exhaust cams helped in all aspects. Adding a 10cm2 housing to the HTA68 (from the 7 they originally came with) makes a big difference as well. As it is, the HTA68 is a very mismatched turbo.
Maxwell Power is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2012, 12:44 PM   #24
CatfaceType-R
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 81102
Join Date: Feb 2005
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Brushyoteefs@dentists.cats
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtP View Post
Yeah its a big difference. Its a 10cm hotside, its running less than 22psi, doesnt have a 50whp fall off from 6200-6500 like most wrx's do, and its probably not running a metric ton of timing up top the way other tuners here do.

Cams make a big difference on subaru motors like they do just about any other.... and Im not sure how this whole trend of "cams dont make any power on a subaru" even got started short of "i dont feel like pulling my motor to do cams, so this is what im going to use as a reason." or they cant afford the cams while they are replacing the broken piston....

The only thing I cant figure out is why the hell they didnt replace the intake cams with the exhaust ones while the motor was out.

I don't think anyone said they don't make more power in certain cases, I think it's the ease of tuning, ease of tuning the avcs, and an overall simpler package for 95% of us. As FujiK and I have been saying, designing your motor around your turbo is very important, then you don't need X and Y to help you achieve your desired powerband.

one thing that people don't understand is quickness vs. speed or 1/4 et vs 1/4 trap. Often, the quicker car to get through it's powerband wins the et. Stock avcs cams and tuning help lowdown and are very reliable and with a 6spd is very "quick"

that's all I have to add, mps know's their stuff; just trying to shed light on your comment, it's lost in translation and became "cams don't make more power" ,nobody said that...try building bumpsticks for better low down than oem subaru's 257 grind, and I bet 1/40 would fit better without serious $$ in custom avcs mapping (which clark turner speaks of in it's complexity)

nice build mps.
CatfaceType-R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2012, 12:55 PM   #25
Maxwell Power
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 190729
Join Date: Oct 2008
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Marysville, WA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatfaceType-R View Post
that's all I have to add, mps know's their stuff; just trying to shed light on your comment, it's lost in translation and became "cams don't make more power" ,nobody said that...try building bumpsticks for better low down than oem subaru's 257 grind, and I bet 1/40 would fit better without serious $$ in custom avcs mapping (which clark turner speaks of in it's complexity)

nice build mps.
He wasn't talking about this thread, but there are a lot of very ignorant people on this forum who say cams don't make more power.. LOTS. I've been involved in that battle many times.
Maxwell Power is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.