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Old 06-20-2002, 10:38 AM   #1
Jessie James
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Angry Letter to the mayor of Denver

Here's what I sent the mayor of Denver this morning.

Quote:
Mayor Wellington Webb
1437 Bannock, Room 350
Denver, CO 80202

June 20, 2002

Dear Mayor Webb,

I am writing to let you know how disgusted I am with the police in your city.

On June fifth I went to downtown Denver to have dinner with an associate, and parked and paid at a metered parking space. Upon returning to my vehicle an hour later (with over an hour left on my meter) I was DISMAYED to find a citation on my windshield!

Seeing that the meter was NOT expired, Officer Beason (Badge #168) nonetheless ticketed my newly purchased vehicle for “no front license plate.” I had only received license plates barely two days earlier, and required a special bracket from the dealer to mount the front plate, hence the lack of a front plate. Nonetheless, that is a greedy parking commissioner at work for you, isn’t it?

As a result, I vow NEVER TO RETURN to downtown Denver. If I must return I will park in a privately owned parking lot. I will NEVER spend any other money at any of your cities businesses. Your corrupt parking commissioner and police bank accounts will no longer profit from me. I will take my business and money elsewhere.

I saw the newspaper today showing that Denver has a 12% increase in crime in 2001, and even higher in 2002. How many cars were stolen, or any other crimes committed, on June 5th around 8:14pm? If even one, it could partially be due to officer Beason writing a law-abiding, tax-paying, revenue-generating citizen a ticket instead of patrolling and preventing more serious crimes.

Regards,


James Fullerton
I also included a copy of the citation and a copy of the article in the paper. You know, after moving out here from California, I am starting to realize that Denver is a corrupt police state. I'm never going back there again!
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Old 06-20-2002, 11:34 AM   #2
wrxlvr
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Denver county is the worst about ticketing cars. I recieved collections notices on 8 parking tickets on a car I'd sold 2 years before the tickets were issued. I called the Denver County DMV and the guy was rude and told me I'd be held accountable since I hadn't told them I'd sold the car. When I went to show proof that I had sold the car to the Arapahoe DMV the lady at the counter found the info in the computer and said "let me guess, Denver county, right?" It's a fricking joke.
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Old 06-20-2002, 12:22 PM   #3
MAD REX
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Same thing happened to me
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Old 06-20-2002, 01:23 PM   #4
disco
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Exclamation !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

wrxlvr-
I am going through the exact same thing right now! I have sent the city of Denver everything they have asked for so far, copy of the bill of sale, proof of insurance cancellation, even a letter from Mr. DMV himself explaining I no longer owned the car at the time of the ticket! They are still sending me notices! The last time they said that it was being dropped and to throw it away. I had to call them 2 days ago because they reported me to their stupid collections people and they too told me that it was a mistake and disregard it! This has gotten sooo old. The ticket was issued back in December sometime.

-disco
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Old 06-20-2002, 01:25 PM   #5
disco
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RS25.com- I would be VERY surprised if you recieve any kind of response for the letter you sent. Let us all know if you do though.

-disco
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Old 06-20-2002, 06:49 PM   #6
Sidewinder
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Default ?

Put your front plate on and quit whining...
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Old 06-20-2002, 06:58 PM   #7
Tangmere
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My, my, what a lot of fuss over getting a deserved ticket. How was Officer Beason supposed to know your particular circumstances? And what special bracket? Mine screws directly into the front bumper or is that bracket only for auto-equipped RS'?

Mark
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Old 06-20-2002, 09:21 PM   #8
COwannago
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Default

Quote:
Seeing that the meter was NOT expired, Officer Beason (Badge #168) nonetheless ticketed my newly purchased vehicle for “no front license plate.” I had only received license plates barely two days earlier, and required a special bracket from the dealer to mount the front plate, hence the lack of a front plate.
Quote:
And what special bracket? Mine screws directly into the front bumper or is that bracket only for auto-equipped RS'?
Since you've seen his RS since the beginning of the auto-x season, it may be reasonable to assume this isn't the "new" vehicle he is referring to. I believe he is talking about his new Typhoon.

Nick C.
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Old 06-20-2002, 09:33 PM   #9
bratmantlz
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hehe you dont want to know what the cops do down here in the springs. seems to be the one thing the cops like to do protect and serve.. when it serves them. unfortunatly youll have to get used to it. they have special priveleges we dont.
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Old 06-20-2002, 09:59 PM   #10
imprezawrxsti.com
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Respectfully---

In the State of Colorado it is illegal to not display a front plate. Even if you didn't have the bracket yet you must display it somehow (i.e. up on the dash).

You broke the law and even though I will admit it is kinda a chicken-**** ticket, pay it- just be glad it is not a moving violation and it won't go on your insurance. Other than that your "Go catch the real violator" attitude is BS.

Even well-founded gripes fall on deaf-ears in Denver, so expect the same.
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Old 06-20-2002, 10:23 PM   #11
Judah
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Same thing happened to me. I was at school downtown, parked in between two cars, and I got a ticket. I wasn't waiting on a bracket, I just thought that my car looked better without the front plate. So I put my front plate on and think about how it saves my radiator from getting hit by rocks. . . .or something.
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Old 06-21-2002, 01:13 AM   #12
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I got the exact ticket as well.....BUT.....I had my plate on my dash.....thats right, I got a ticket in downtown Denver (17th and market) saying I didnt have a front mount plate even though there was one sitting on the dash!!! I went to the Denver County Clerks Office and told/showed them and they didnt do anything about it and told me I had to pay the ticket. $30!!!!

Kurt
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Old 06-21-2002, 11:23 AM   #13
quiksan
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Default yeah, denver cops SUCK

Denver cops are mostly (ok, completely) worthless.

BUT, the front license plate is a law...regardless of how dum it is. speaking of dum - I had to go to denver court last fall for a speeding ticket (tried fighting it...) and being the genious I am, I parked right out front at a meter, without my front plate on. D'oh!!
ended up paying my speeding ticket, walking out to my car, only to find a shiny new ticket for like $25 for no front plate.
stupid stupid stupid!

ah well, I'm a tard, and haven't put my front plate on yet, but haven't had any more problems since...

mental note - don't park outside denver federal buildings without front plates...!

then of course there's CS cops...they suck in a whole different way...
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Old 06-22-2002, 01:46 PM   #14
Jessie James
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Default

It was on my Typhoon, which I am not drilling holes in to mount a plate because it's too beautiful to do that to! I'll never put a front plate on my cars because of photo radar and laser. And I know it's not legal to drive without a front plate but they can kiss my a$$, that is just a BS ticket. I mean COME ON what the hell? Doh! Dumb, dumb cops, and they wonder why they have a bad reputation!!!!

Anyway, I did pay the fine (who really cares, it's just $30) but I have to agree with the fact that the cops are just worthless chicken****s down there. And I just felt like I wanted to tell the Mayor because there was an newspaper article where he said he was concerned about people not going downtown because of his corrupt parking commisioner - well, I wanted to let him know that he's right - that kind of greedy behavior IS making people go elsewhere. That's all.

But, I also feel "No wonder crime is up 12% in Denver - they have their priorities all wrong." is a true statement.

On a side note, I do take my plate with me in my truck nowadays, and when I park I pull it out and put in on the dash.
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Old 06-22-2002, 08:44 PM   #15
Sidewinder
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Default ??

Hilarious! You complain about the ticket and then whine about the reasons you will never put a front plate on any of your vehicles... Here is to hoping you keep collecting them - and attracting deserved attention. Eventually you will learn not to attract stupid attention... If you were really concerned about photo radar and/or laser you would buy a cover for your plate that helps to defeat them. They are always being advertised in Car and Driver you know.

Sorry I am enjoying your misery, but I get a kick out of people fighting the front plate issue... Just mount them and quit whining!
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Old 06-22-2002, 11:54 PM   #16
Lin Evans
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Default Another interesting experience

I agree that Denver leaves a lot to be desired where revenues are concerned.

I received a citation notice in the mail from the city of Denver stating that I owed some amount - it seems like it was $35 at the time - for a parking violation. I looked at the citation and the license number and called the city and asked what type vehicle it was - because I had never been on the particular street - rarely ever even go to Denver (I live 60 miles away) and was informed it was a Subaru. On the date of the violation I and my wife (the only drivers) were in Bejing, China on a business trip.

I checked the license numbers on my two Subaru's and they were not even close. I have 10 vehicles - so I finally discovered the license number on my 30' motor home which had not been started in two years and had NEVER been in the city of Denver.

I called and explained and was told I would have to furnish the city a "copy" of my registration and license. I asked to speak with the "supervisor" and was given the same story. I informed them that all they needed to do was check whatever source they used to obtain my mailing address (State database) and they would easily see that the license number belonged to a 1979 motor home, not a Subaru. They refused and demanded that I prove my "case" by sending them a copy of the registration, etc.

I told them to "take a hike" and this started a chain of written threats from Denver including a threat to "boot" my vehicle or tow it. I told them they were more than welcome to do so if they survived the attempt, and that if they were successful, it would be wonderful because when I brought suit against the city, I would just collect that much more in punative damages. This went on for more than six months. Finally, they sent a letter telling me that "I would not have to pay" the "fine". This was after I sent them a "Cease and Desist" letter explaining that any further communication would result in immediate legal action against not only the city of Denver, but against all persons representing the city who signed the threatening letters.

Long story, but it just goes to show the arrogance and ignorance of some of the employees and management of the city of Denver. If I never set foot in Denver, it will be too soon!

Lin
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Old 06-27-2002, 02:10 AM   #17
Jessie James
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Default Re: Another interesting experience

Quote:
Originally posted by Lin Evans
If I never set foot in Denver, it will be too soon!

Lin
I agree. I have lived in California my whole life and the cops out there don't hassle you for stupid crap like this.

I whine and bitch because I know it's WRONG of them, and if not for people like Lin and me who send letters, all of us would suffer even more under the hands of this Nazi police state.

If you want to live where the police can do whatever they want, whenever they want, I am sure there are dozens of crazy countries out there that can help you out. Any wonder why everyone in the world wants to move to the USA? Two words:

Corrupt police.
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Old 06-27-2002, 01:02 PM   #18
Fuquad
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Default

OK, I know that this will piss a lot of people off, but the Denver natives will hear me... if you moved here from California and hate it so bad, why the hell do you stay??

And, just my $0.02 on the license plate thing... I choose not to put a front plate on my car because I think it looks wierd just hanging there. But, at the same time I understand it is the law here, so if I get a ticket for it, I have to accept that. Suck it up, pay the fine. That's the choice I make, and the consequences there-of. And, just be thankful that it's a no-point ticket and it's only a small fine!
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Old 06-27-2002, 02:09 PM   #19
Lin Evans
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Default For Fuquad...

I think you misinterpreted the response by James - it's not the people of Denver which is the object of the complaint, it's the Denver Police and corrupt city government.

I find it strange than you could live in Littleton and be unaware of the serious problems with the Denver Police and Denver politics. How about collecting six million dollars a year for illegal photo radar? Surely you read the papers. What about breaking and entering the wrong home and murdering an innocent man who was just in this country supporting his family in Mexico? What about shooting and killing the unarmed son of a Sheriff's deputy in the stairwell of an apartment just because he "ran" from his murderers? No crime was commited except by the Denver police who never have to be held accountable for their "crimes." The list goes on and on - lots of it never makes it to press. How about convicting a young woman of murder when she was hancuffed in a police car when it happened? How about the absolute stupidity of outlawing a particular dog breed based on popular misconception and yellow journalism by the Denver Post?

Apparently you've never been pulled over and "detained" by a couple of snot nosed, punk rookies just because the Denver Police didn't like the way you looked and just don't like bikers! Never mind that you might be a highly decorated war vetran who shed more blood in a couple years in SE Asia for this country than these punks will in their entire careers. Are they out there taking care of the public and defending the rights of citizens and cleaning up crime, or are they revenue collection dogs for their masters who inflate your tax base with ever increasing "public" projects designed to do nothing more than support an already inflated and corrupt machine?

Maybe you don't care about having your rights trampled by city revenue collectors and thugs masquerading as public servants, but you should! Littleton is not that far from Denver and what is allowed to happen in Denver may find its way to your own front door if you let it happen. Suggesting that someone "leave" if they don't like it is not a solution to a very real problem. O.K., I'm off the soapbox now....

Lin
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Old 06-27-2002, 02:59 PM   #20
Fuquad
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Whoa... it was a question, not a suggestion. Simply because I hear people that move here from other states complain constantly about our laws, police, over-population, traffic, weather, etc... I just wondered what the attraction was for these people who have issues with Denver.

And, since my original point was in response to a Californian citizen, let's use California as a comparison. Surely YOU heard the news about those cops beating the living SNOT out of motorist Rodney King a few years back in LA? My point is this and ONLY this: there is corrupt government in power EVERYWHERE. Denver is not a "unique" situation.

And, I'm sure you won't even see this; you'll just think that it LOOKS like I am "talking *****" about people from California and that I am some sort of facist supporter of corrupt police and government groups. I am doing neither; I was asking a question. And, while I may not be offering a solution, I haven't seen anyone else fulfilling that role here, either.
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Old 06-27-2002, 03:30 PM   #21
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Default Solution..

There is no question that police are corrupt in many large cities. I'm old enough to remember when Los Angeles had one of the best police departments in the nation. In the 50's and 60's they had educational requirements for officers which went a long way toward insuring that a certain intelligence level and training were prerequisites which made the likelyhood of these tragic events a remote rather than frequent occurrence. In those days Denver also had better people. These requirements have been largely dropped because people with a reasonable amount of intelligence and education want to be able to make enough money to fee their families and live above the poverty level, and police pay has not kept pace with inflation. Now, it seems only hotshots with an attitude are attracted to police work, and in many cases the badge is the only distinguishing differentiator between the criminal and the cop!

This problem with low pay may ultimately be behind much of the problems we have today with large city police departments. I'm not certain what the "solution" to the problem is, but perhaps a good start would be to raise the pay scale across the board and immediately purge the departments of these misplaced thugs and crooks which give the whole department a bad name. When a cop is bad, and everyone who works with him or her know it, it's time to tar and feather the s*it head and run them out of town. Make it much more attractive to become a law enforcement officer, and much more difficult. We don't need "more" police, we need fewer and "better" police who are challenged to clean up crime - and I mean "real" crime, not busting the "easy" ones who's only "crime" is smoking some noxious weed or sticking a needle in their arm, but those who rob, rape, steal and otherwise engage in behavior harmful to the public. How about taking them off "revenue" operations which appears to be their primary jobs and letting them do some "real" police work?

It's interesting to me that in many other parts of the world, one rarely sees a cop issuing a traffic citation. I travel the world frequently and the only place I've ever been where the primary job and presence of police is "traffic enforcement" is right here in the U.S. It's neither necessary nor desirable.......

Lin
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Old 06-27-2002, 04:09 PM   #22
Fuquad
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Touché! And well put! I couldn't agree more, especially about the ridiculous mis-use of manpower and monetary assets of giving out traffic tickets. I actually seriously considered joining the police force, but after several of my friends who were already cops told me that traffic would be my primary duty for the first SEVERAL years of service, I changed my mind. I just couldn't give out violations for going 7 over the speed limit.
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Old 06-27-2002, 05:04 PM   #23
Lin Evans
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Default I apologize

for unloading on you - it certainly wasn't meant to be personal. It's extremely frustrating to see the deterioration of a society and realize that you're never going to live long enough to make any significant differences and that your grandchildren will never enjoy the kind of world and values which you grew up with.

It's easy to sum up the problems, but much more difficult to make changes which truly affect the way things work. I think that's one reason we all love our toys (cars, etc.) because it lets us escape, if only for a short time, from the pressures of thinking about it.

The life of a police officer is not an easy one. Even if you have a clear head and the best intentions on making a difference when you begin, the likelyhood is strong that you will become jaded and eventually a part of the problem rather than the solution. It's happened to many of my friends who went that route. Soon, your only friends are other cops and your girlfriend or wife is tired of your "attitude" and suspicious of your activities. This frequently leads to splits and divorces and general unhappiness on the part of the officer. These problems and associated pressures carry over into the job and it becomes an "us versus them" situation and percipitates the typical "bad attitude" which frequently distinguishes off duty cops. Think long and hard before going down that road... in retrospect, I guess you already have...

Lin
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Old 06-27-2002, 05:13 PM   #24
Fuquad
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Default Re: I apologize

Quote:
Originally posted by Lin Evans
for unloading on you - it certainly wasn't meant to be personal. It's extremely frustrating to see the deterioration of a society and realize that you're never going to live long enough to make any significant differences and that your grandchildren will never enjoy the kind of world and values which you grew up with.
No prob! It's cool to debate about these things. That's what forums are for. Unfortunately, they also have their drawbacks (miscommunication, etc...). But what doesn't!?

By now, RS2.5.com is probably wishing everyone would drop this already!
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Old 06-27-2002, 11:13 PM   #25
Thumper23
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You want to know about @&%#*&%@ cops? Drive to Boulder. Back in May, I was driving home from a friends place at 130 AM (they live on the Hill by the way aka party district), anywho, I get pulled over no more then 2 blocks from the house. So I ask what's the problem. He asks me if I've been drinking. And I say no b/c, well, I actually have had nothing to drink that day. So the whole bs road side test and I blow zeroes. 30 mins later I can finally drive home. I got pulled over for no other reason that I was driving at 130 in the morning. Drinking and driving ->:monkey:

Stupid profiling.

Last edited by ImprezaRS dot com; 06-28-2002 at 01:19 AM.
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