Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Wednesday July 23, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Subaru Models > Legacy Forum

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-15-2010, 08:34 PM   #1
ThaFlyinSoundman@aim
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 230708
Join Date: Nov 2009
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Bellevue, WA
Vehicle:
2002 02WRX STi Wagon
WRB, STi Hybrid swap 6spd

Default Act-4 Active All-Wheel Drive vs symmetrical all wheel drive

one version of the 2011 legacy has the Act-4 Active All-Wheel Drive and all the others are the Symmetrical all wheel drive typical of subaru. Does anyone know the difference? a quick google search showed nothing.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
ThaFlyinSoundman@aim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2010, 08:44 PM   #2
MikeNH
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 244821
Join Date: Apr 2010
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Michigan
Vehicle:
2011 Chevy Silverado

Default

The 2010+ Legacy uses 3 different systems. The manual transmission 2.5i and 2.5GT use the standard full time 50/50 split system with the viscous center diff than can "lock up" as needed. 3.6R models use the variable torque distribution system, which normally has a 40/60 front to rear power delivery, along with a limited slip diff out back. This system can send power to individual wheels as needed. The CVT-equipped 2.5i uses yet another system that I think uses a 90/10 split and can divide it up to 50/50 as needed.
MikeNH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2010, 11:27 PM   #3
ThaFlyinSoundman@aim
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 230708
Join Date: Nov 2009
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Bellevue, WA
Vehicle:
2002 02WRX STi Wagon
WRB, STi Hybrid swap 6spd

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeNH View Post
The 2010+ Legacy uses 3 different systems. The manual transmission 2.5i and 2.5GT use the standard full time 50/50 split system with the viscous center diff than can "lock up" as needed. 3.6R models use the variable torque distribution system, which normally has a 40/60 front to rear power delivery, along with a limited slip diff out back. This system can send power to individual wheels as needed. The CVT-equipped 2.5i uses yet another system that I think uses a 90/10 split and can divide it up to 50/50 as needed.
haha ok, thanks for that. i was a little confused by the website when i saw it. The CVT in the legacy gets a hell of a lot better mpg than most CVT options in other cars. Im curious to know why
ThaFlyinSoundman@aim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2010, 09:58 AM   #4
Jonathan
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 4021
Join Date: Feb 2001
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Natick, MA USA
Vehicle:
1999 Legacy GT Ltd
Quick Silver Metallic

Default

The Legacy CVT setup offers exceptionally high fuel mileage, but from what I have read, suffers from fairly slow lack-luster performance. I have not driven around in one of these cars so I am only basing this on what others have posted.

In the world of fuel efficent automatic transmissions, you can have fuel-efficiency, low-cost, reliability, and high-performance. You can not yet have all these things in one package though. I can not speak to what Subaru's CVT offers compared to their competition.

The latest and more popular setups from other manufacturers typically involve an electronically controlled 6-speed setup with "twin-clutch" mechanisms that make shifting so much simpler, that the CVT is perhaps not as big a draw as it had been at one time.
Jonathan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2010, 12:03 AM   #5
jaed_43725
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 194078
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: N.C.
Vehicle:
2003 WRX
Silver

Default

I test drove a CVT and it was awesome. Smooth as glass and quick too. Always in the power-band. If it was strong enough I would put it in my 03' WRX.
jaed_43725 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2010, 02:44 AM   #6
kirbykirb
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 183596
Join Date: Jul 2008
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: USA
Vehicle:
2005 WRX/9-2x
Obsedian Black Pearl

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
The Legacy CVT setup offers exceptionally high fuel mileage, but from what I have read, suffers from fairly slow lack-luster performance. I have not driven around in one of these cars so I am only basing this on what others have posted.

In the world of fuel efficent automatic transmissions, you can have fuel-efficiency, low-cost, reliability, and high-performance. You can not yet have all these things in one package though. I can not speak to what Subaru's CVT offers compared to their competition.

The latest and more popular setups from other manufacturers typically involve an electronically controlled 6-speed setup with "twin-clutch" mechanisms that make shifting so much simpler, that the CVT is perhaps not as big a draw as it had been at one time.

Hehe, you should go test drive a 3.6 CVT new outback. their quite fun cars, I love how they "shift" and change into a higher ratio/lower ratio. Its quite the difference from a 4EAT for sure.
kirbykirb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2010, 06:53 AM   #7
MikeNH
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 244821
Join Date: Apr 2010
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Michigan
Vehicle:
2011 Chevy Silverado

Default

3.6 doesn't use the CVT, it uses the 5EAT from the previous 3.0 Legacy/OB. CVT is 2.5i only.
MikeNH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2010, 11:21 AM   #8
kirbykirb
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 183596
Join Date: Jul 2008
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: USA
Vehicle:
2005 WRX/9-2x
Obsedian Black Pearl

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeNH View Post
3.6 doesn't use the CVT, it uses the 5EAT from the previous 3.0 Legacy/OB. CVT is 2.5i only.
guess so, I could've swore I saw CVT ont he H6 sticker though.
kirbykirb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2010, 03:04 PM   #9
ShutterBC
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 70361
Join Date: Sep 2004
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Lexington, MA
Vehicle:
2005 LGT ltd wag 5MT
Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaed_43725 View Post
I test drove a CVT and it was awesome. Smooth as glass and quick too. Always in the power-band. If it was strong enough I would put it in my 03' WRX.
Somehow I feel a little twinge when I hear a reference to a transmission using the word "glass".
ShutterBC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2011, 01:24 PM   #10
drogos
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 245483
Join Date: Apr 2010
Vehicle:
2008 Legacy Spec B

Default

Does anyone have any insight on those 3 AWD systems that subaru offers right now? Sounds like 50/50 or 60/40 is so much better choice for climbing those snowy hills. 90/10 that CVT equipped cars have seems to be pretty much on demand AWD. You have essentially FWD with more power to the rear wheels IF computer decides it's needed. From my latest FWD hill climbing ......"experiences" I can tell that the last thing I would want is hesitation from the computer trying to decide where traction is needed most. Fraction of a second of hesitation might as well be a difference between keeping the momentum and climbing up the hill or loosing it and getting stuck half way trough. Any thoughts highly appreciated.
drogos is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2011, 02:18 PM   #11
AQ Motorsports
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 60836
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Torrance, CA
Vehicle:
2006 Mod Class STI
TIMEATTACK!!

Default

It's pretty much the same as what they've always offered with some new names thrown in. The 5-speed, VTD, and DCCD use an actual center differential and mechanical connection to all four wheels. The "90/10" version which is found in most 4eats has a clutch pack that can only transfer some power rearward, but it is at least a proactive system that will provide lockup before the front wheel start to slip.
AQ Motorsports is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 11:28 AM   #12
Patrick Olsen
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 120
Join Date: Jul 1999
Chapter/Region: AKIC
Location: Where the Navy sends me...
Vehicle:
1997 Legacy 2.5GT
QuickSilver Metallic

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by drogos View Post
Does anyone have any insight on those 3 AWD systems that subaru offers right now? Sounds like 50/50 or 60/40 is so much better choice for climbing those snowy hills. 90/10 that CVT equipped cars have seems to be pretty much on demand AWD. You have essentially FWD with more power to the rear wheels IF computer decides it's needed. From my latest FWD hill climbing ......"experiences" I can tell that the last thing I would want is hesitation from the computer trying to decide where traction is needed most. Fraction of a second of hesitation might as well be a difference between keeping the momentum and climbing up the hill or loosing it and getting stuck half way trough. Any thoughts highly appreciated.
As HMI said, the "90/10" version is the version that all automatic Subarus (and now the CVTs) have had for about 15 years now. I'm sure there have been tweaks over the years to make the system better/smarter, but it's fundamentally the same. Seeing as the vast majority of Subarus on the road are automatics, chance are very good that you've seen that system in action during your FWD hill climbing. Have you seen any Outbacks or Foresters or other Subies having problems making their way up a snow-covered hill?

My father's automatic Outback felt no different in the snow than my 5MT Legacy.
Patrick Olsen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 12:36 PM   #13
drogos
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 245483
Join Date: Apr 2010
Vehicle:
2008 Legacy Spec B

Default

I have no doubt subaru's AWD is very capable system but given huge mechanical differences between 2.5i and 3.6 I would like to know if both have similar performance on snowy trails. I will be buying outback in the middle of the year and would definitely prefer 2.5 CVT for added fuel economy and lower cost. Info on 3.6 AWD is pretty specific and videos proof it's more than capable. On the other hand there is mixed info on 2.5 CVT. Subaru sales people know ***** as any sales people in any dealership, Subaru rep on this forum says it's all "magic" and "zen" ...and than there is whole bunch of misguided 2.5 CVT owners thinking they have a snow cat in their driveway because "in 2 inches of snow it hesitated and then took off like a rocket.....". I can do that in my FWD with half-decent snow tires any day in more than 2 inches of snow.

Basically I am trying to figure out if:

1) AWD on 2.5 CVT is good enough to climb a snowy hill

2) is 2.5 engine itself powerful enough for higher altitudes. Some say it can loose as much as 30% of power in higher parts of Colorado. The question is whether it is just an inconvenience or would it prevent me from getting where I want simply because there is not enough torque to get things done. Thanks again for your input.
drogos is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 06:50 PM   #14
Patrick Olsen
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 120
Join Date: Jul 1999
Chapter/Region: AKIC
Location: Where the Navy sends me...
Vehicle:
1997 Legacy 2.5GT
QuickSilver Metallic

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by drogos View Post
Info on 3.6 AWD is pretty specific and videos proof it's more than capable. On the other hand there is mixed info on 2.5 CVT.
I would bet there are a couple orders of magnitude more videos of 2.5s in the snow than there are of the 3.6. Again, the CVT is using the same type of system that Subaru has been using on all of their automatics dating back to at least 1997, so if you find a video of a 2.5L Outback or Legacy or Forester or non-WRX/non-STI Impreza in the snow, you've seen what the same type of AWD system that the CVT employs can do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drogos View Post
1) AWD on 2.5 CVT is good enough to climb a snowy hill
Again, have you seen any Outbacks or Foresters or other Subies having problems making their way up a snow-covered hill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by drogos View Post
2) is 2.5 engine itself powerful enough for higher altitudes. Some say it can loose [sic] as much as 30% of power in higher parts of Colorado.
Not just "can lose", it "will lose". So will the 3.6, and so will any other normally aspirated car as you climb in altitude. The thumbrule is 3% power loss for each 1000ft of altitude for a N/A engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drogos View Post
The question is whether it is just an inconvenience or would it prevent me from getting where I want simply because there is not enough torque to get things done.
Typically driving in the snow, whether it be climbing a hill or anything else, is more a matter of traction than power.
Patrick Olsen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2011, 11:24 AM   #15
b4wantab
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 21293
Join Date: Jul 2002
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Oak Park, IL
Vehicle:
05 OB Black Bean
1969 W-30

Default

Check over at www.subaruoutback.org.

There has been discussion about the CVT and traction in snow and ice.

There is a lot of good and bad reviews. You probably should test drive right after a snow to assure its for you.

Peace,

Greg
b4wantab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2011, 04:10 PM   #16
wrxwhite
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 28632
Join Date: Nov 2002
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: North Wales Pa
Vehicle:
2011 Legacy 3.6R
Dark grey metallic

Default

I have a 2011 Legacy 3.6R Limited. In the snow it acts more like a Sti. The back end likes to step out when the traction control is turned off. With the traction control on, the rear will step out a little before intervention.
wrxwhite is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FS : ** PRICE DROP**Wheel Bearing Kit for all 4 wheels and seals birdman.1 Suspension/Brakes/Handling 22 09-06-2010 03:37 PM
Symmetric vs Symmetrical sha_zapple Off-Topic 8 01-25-2010 12:10 PM
subaru symmetrical all wheel drive motorhead1359 Newbies & FAQs 15 09-23-2009 10:10 PM
1/2 drive vs 3/4 drive BlackoutWRX Newbies & FAQs 12 03-12-2006 11:48 PM
BMW all-wheel-drive vs Subaru AWD vs MB 4-matic etam Normally Aspirated Powertrain 7 12-14-2000 12:54 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.