Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Thursday November 27, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > Proven Power Bragging

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-19-2012, 05:54 PM   #1351
kellygnsd
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 32669
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Rancho C
Vehicle:
2007 2.34LR, EFR7670
LINK G4 hybrid STi

Default

Are you waiting for the 4-port before you start the high boost tooning Bariga?
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
kellygnsd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2012, 07:37 PM   #1352
Bariga
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 179846
Join Date: May 2008
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Renton, WA
Vehicle:
07 STi Limited
EFR 7670 TS

Default

i'm not sure what to do at this point, drove on the street today and its over boosting, even with boost per gear settings. Jeff saying 4 port wont work the same as 2 separate solenoids confused
Bariga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2012, 08:34 PM   #1353
alcoolaid
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 134949
Join Date: Dec 2006
Chapter/Region: VIC
Location: Vancouver, BC
Vehicle:
'07 SWP STi
Instagram | arthurlam89

Default

Define over boosting? Just a few psi?

Adjust duty cycle then. Street has more load then dyno
alcoolaid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2012, 10:06 PM   #1354
Equilibrium Tuning
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 26933
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Fairfield, CA
Vehicle:
2006 STI
CGM

Default

Put in an MBC and be done with it

-- Ed
Equilibrium Tuning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2012, 10:08 PM   #1355
Paul
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 56203
Join Date: Feb 2004
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: south nj
Vehicle:
00 RSTI Coupe
Twin Scroll 2.5XTR EJ207

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bariga View Post
i'm not sure what to do at this point, drove on the street today and its over boosting, even with boost per gear settings. Jeff saying 4 port wont work the same as 2 separate solenoids confused
Did MPS not take it out on the street after the dyno??

Can you just throw a MBC on the car and run it like that until someone figures out a better solution for the boost? I know I'd be looky for something cheap/easy to fix the car so I could enjoy the it after all the down time and money
Paul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2012, 10:49 PM   #1356
BlackEyeII
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 65140
Join Date: Jun 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle, WA
Vehicle:
2007 STI Limited#213
05 STI (rip) 03 WRX (rip)

Lightbulb I want a ride

I sure would like to check that beast out sometime. I am going to be up at MPS for a tune next Tuesday 24th I would offer lunch for a ride.
BlackEyeII is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2012, 11:41 PM   #1357
Spike_916
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 170007
Join Date: Jan 2008
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Sacramento
Vehicle:
2006 STi
Obsidian Black Pearl

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Equilibrium Tuning View Post
Put in an MBC and be done with it

-- Ed
^ what he said...
Spike_916 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2012, 01:13 AM   #1358
lancelucas
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 124282
Join Date: Aug 2006
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: 30000 ft
Vehicle:
04 WRX Wagon PSM
13 STI Sedan SWP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Equilibrium Tuning View Post
Put in an MBC and be done with it

-- Ed
That'd be a good way to ensure it tapers
lancelucas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2012, 11:55 AM   #1359
kellygnsd
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 32669
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Rancho C
Vehicle:
2007 2.34LR, EFR7670
LINK G4 hybrid STi

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bariga View Post
i'm not sure what to do at this point, drove on the street today and its over boosting, even with boost per gear settings. Jeff saying 4 port wont work the same as 2 separate solenoids confused

Are you using open loop or closed loop boost control?
kellygnsd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2012, 12:17 PM   #1360
Bariga
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 179846
Join Date: May 2008
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Renton, WA
Vehicle:
07 STi Limited
EFR 7670 TS

Default

closed loop
Bariga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2012, 01:31 PM   #1361
kellygnsd
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 32669
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Rancho C
Vehicle:
2007 2.34LR, EFR7670
LINK G4 hybrid STi

Default

If you are set up for continuous logging what are your boost control compensations when you are overboosting?

P-gain(%DC)
I-gain(%DC)
D-gain(%DC)
IAT Wgate comp (%)
ECT Wgate comp (%)
Gear Wgate comp (%)
kellygnsd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2012, 01:49 PM   #1362
Maxwell Power
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 190729
Join Date: Oct 2008
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Marysville, WA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul View Post
Did MPS not take it out on the street after the dyno??
I did not because it was 7pm and my father was flying in at 8. We spent 8 hours on the dyno fighting this lame boost control system.

The system it too sensitve. WGDC should not be 30% to hit 28 psi or more. To make it worse, 0-25% gave 12psi. 26% gave 23.

The boost control system is flawed. You can't tune a 1% change to make a 100% increase in boost pressure. Just doesn't work.
Maxwell Power is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2012, 02:26 PM   #1363
Nuke209
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 108089
Join Date: Feb 2006
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Minnesota
Vehicle:
2003 WRX
NF Performance

Default

Ewg ftw
Nuke209 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2012, 02:27 PM   #1364
Phatron
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 36033
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Tuning Lab
Vehicle:
CEO PhatBottiTuning
2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth

Default

weld wg's shut. run race gas. ballz to the wall all day
Phatron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2012, 02:49 PM   #1365
Equilibrium Tuning
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 26933
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Fairfield, CA
Vehicle:
2006 STI
CGM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Power View Post
I did not because it was 7pm and my father was flying in at 8. We spent 8 hours on the dyno fighting this lame boost control system.

The system it too sensitve. WGDC should not be 30% to hit 28 psi or more. To make it worse, 0-25% gave 12psi. 26% gave 23.

The boost control system is flawed. You can't tune a 1% change to make a 100% increase in boost pressure. Just doesn't work.
That's plain stupid and a waste of time. Its never going to work with that kind of inconsistency and such non-linear control. EWG's exist for a reason... especially for larger turbos.

-- Ed
Equilibrium Tuning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2012, 03:58 PM   #1366
juanmedina
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 133146
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: SC
Vehicle:
07 FPgreen 7.37@95
WRX VF39+E85 12.0, 121mph

Default

The new BW EFR turbos seem like a complete failure so far to me

Any one?
juanmedina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2012, 04:02 PM   #1367
alcoolaid
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 134949
Join Date: Dec 2006
Chapter/Region: VIC
Location: Vancouver, BC
Vehicle:
'07 SWP STi
Instagram | arthurlam89

Default

Other cars running it seem to have no problems.

I think the boost control system on this car is too complex. Keep it simple and I'm sure with the right spring/boost combo everything will work fine...
alcoolaid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2012, 04:08 PM   #1368
Maxwell Power
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 190729
Join Date: Oct 2008
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Marysville, WA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by juanmedina
The new BW EFR turbos seem like a complete failure so far to me

Any one?
I like the performance, hate the iwg.
Maxwell Power is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2012, 04:08 PM   #1369
Equilibrium Tuning
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 26933
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Fairfield, CA
Vehicle:
2006 STI
CGM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by juanmedina View Post
The new BW EFR turbos seem like a complete failure so far to me

Any one?
We fired up a big build with one recently. The car is on a break-in tune but seemed to have nice drivability and response at low boost. Of course we opted to go the EWG route...

-- Ed
Equilibrium Tuning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2012, 04:16 PM   #1370
juanmedina
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 133146
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: SC
Vehicle:
07 FPgreen 7.37@95
WRX VF39+E85 12.0, 121mph

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by alcoolaid View Post
Other cars running it seem to have no problems.

I think the boost control system on this car is too complex. Keep it simple and I'm sure with the right spring/boost combo everything will work fine...
What other cars? Tino's?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Power View Post
I like the performance, hate the iwg.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Equilibrium Tuning View Post
We fired up a big build with one recently. The car is on a break-in tune but seemed to have nice drivability and response at low boost. Of course we opted to go the EWG route...

-- Ed
So far the only impresive results that I have seen have been directly from Full-Race or BW....
juanmedina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2012, 05:21 PM   #1371
reid-o
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 103631
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mililani, Hawaii
Vehicle:
2004 STI
Black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by juanmedina View Post
The new BW EFR turbos seem like a complete failure so far to me

Any one?
It's hard to make that claim when the turbo is really a system of features.
I think you're referring to the IWG part of the system only which doesn't mean the rest of the features are not working. The ewg versions showed good results on the EVOs. It just depends on what your evaluation criteria is.

I think the most important point is that the IWG system was supposed to have brought down overall costs for running twinscroll, as that's always the sticking point with a divided setup. The consumer is always asking "why should I pay xxx amount for yyy gains when the data for yyy is not readily apparent." Also the price point for the turbos themselves, even the ewg are not cheap.
The spool and response seem to be as claimed from what I've seen, but I wonder if that response is more due to the compressor to turbine selection than the titanium exhaust wheel. I haven't seen a twinscroll gtx3576r result yet, but I suspect it should perform similarly since the compressor/turbine selection (and flow rate) is very similar. FWIW the twinscroll setups respond well to larger turbine smaller compressor pairings, which Garret hasn't supported till now. If the 3576r responds just as well, then it will show that all of the other features of the EFR don't have as great an effect on performance as the hype leads everyone to believe. The problem is that both turbos are expensive as hell (at least in my opinion). I really want to try the 3576r on my car, but they priced it the same as the gtx3582r, which puts it above 2k for some reason--roughly 400-500 or so more than the gtx3076r.
reid-o is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2012, 05:23 PM   #1372
B.R.E.D
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 289606
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Atlanta
Vehicle:
06 WRX
white

Default

I hate that you are having all these issues man. It sure has made my decision to go EWG on my new build easy though.
B.R.E.D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2012, 05:35 PM   #1373
thefoos
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 144751
Join Date: Mar 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Granger, IN
Vehicle:
02 WRX BW EFR E85
7064 TS WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by juanmedina View Post
The new BW EFR turbos seem like a complete failure so far to me

Any one?
I know I get overlooked since I'm in a corn field, but...

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2356854

Quote:
Originally Posted by alcoolaid View Post
Other cars running it seem to have no problems.

I think the boost control system on this car is too complex. Keep it simple and I'm sure with the right spring/boost combo everything will work fine...
Correct. See Below...

Quote:
Originally Posted by thefoos View Post
Nice results. But this isn't true. Not to say my EFR hasn't been touchy, but I'm in good control with the stock 2 port and BW's high pressure actuator. No overrun, no taper. With the stock ECU running the show.

I agree that it did take a bit of work to nail down a combination that works well. Too much preset on the actuator or too small of a pill, and the turbo would run off on me...
I'll make it easy for you guys. Put a 2 port back on. Use BW's high pressure actuator. Set it to 14 psig. Use a 1.2mm pill.

I can't give you exact WGDC's since I don't have this setup, but with 28-30 psig targets, you'll be north of 50% range.

For clarity, not ripping on the tuning. I don't like the bc system. I wouldn't have even spent the 8 hours on a dyno with it. I would have tossed it out and not even strapped it down.
thefoos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2012, 05:37 PM   #1374
reid-o
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 103631
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mililani, Hawaii
Vehicle:
2004 STI
Black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by alcoolaid View Post
Other cars running it seem to have no problems.

I think the boost control system on this car is too complex. Keep it simple and I'm sure with the right spring/boost combo everything will work fine...
Imo the problem is also the canister setup. I've never had great results setting up even an ewg with the top and bottom port connected. It always took too long to dial in PID, and I kept having to lower the solenoid frequency to reduce response. I've always found it easier to work off the bottom port and change springs to get close to target and then dial in PID after. I think this is how Anton has it setup in principle similar to hooking up the top port on the EWG.

The problem in my opinion with running both ports--using pressure to keep the gate closed---is that it doesn't always allow the diaphram full travel at some points in the boost curve, as the solenoid or even MBC is is cycling pressure between top and bottom. If it cycles too quickly, it's effectively pressurizing both sides depending on the length of the vacuum lines, effectively limiting travel. Then when you reduce the duty it suddenly swings one way and the diaphram swings open or doesn't at all. I'm sure there's some strategy to make this connection setup work, but after you spend some time, you start to think it's better to just solve the mechanical limitation and increase the spring rate and adjust PID after.

I need to make a correction: I have run both ports succesfully on an ewg system, but it's only when the spring rate is the correct one, and the system performs similarly when I just have one port connected. I ended up changing the spring to a higher rate anyway in other words.

Last edited by reid-o; 07-20-2012 at 05:46 PM.
reid-o is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2012, 05:43 PM   #1375
reid-o
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 103631
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mililani, Hawaii
Vehicle:
2004 STI
Black

Default

I think the only way to hookup up a dual port wastegate to make it easy to tune would be to have a bleeder system on the top port that can limit yet give constant steady pressure to the top port and an interrupt solenoid on the bottom port. That would seem to me to tune traditionally. The effect would be like having a larger spring though, but you'd be able to adjust the top port's pressure independently of the bottom simulating different spring rates.


edit: I think a bleeder MBC on the top port and the solenoid in interrupt (or even an MBC) on the bottom would work better. Even that's too complicated for me though.

Last edited by reid-o; 07-20-2012 at 05:56 PM.
reid-o is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Maxwell Power Tuned, 2.35L GT35R 537whp and 9k rpm, 4K rpm power band Maxwell Power Proven Power Bragging 563 05-16-2012 09:28 PM
Maxwell Power Services aka GetaDomTune AwaySooner Vendor Reviews 7 03-11-2010 04:54 PM
+1 for Dom/Maxwell Power Jeff54 Vancouver Impreza Club Forum -- VIC 22 09-02-2009 03:22 PM
My new Maxwell Power Services engine is almost in !!! leonbmx North West Impreza Club Forum -- NWIC 13 03-23-2009 11:28 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.