Maxwell Power EFR 7670

[kellygnsd]

Are you waiting for the 4-port before you start the high boost tooning Bariga?

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[Bariga]

i'm not sure what to do at this point, drove on the street today and its over boosting, even with boost per gear settings. Jeff saying 4 port wont work the same as 2 separate solenoids confused

[alcoolaid]

Define over boosting? Just a few psi?

Adjust duty cycle then. Street has more load then dyno

[Equilibrium Tuning]

Put in an MBC and be done with it

-- Ed

[Paul]

Originally Posted by Bariga

i'm not sure what to do at this point, drove on the street today and its over boosting, even with boost per gear settings. Jeff saying 4 port wont work the same as 2 separate solenoids confused

Did MPS not take it out on the street after the dyno??

Can you just throw a MBC on the car and run it like that until someone figures out a better solution for the boost? I know I'd be looky for something cheap/easy to fix the car so I could enjoy the it after all the down time and money

[BlackEyeII]

I sure would like to check that beast out sometime. I am going to be up at MPS for a tune next Tuesday 24th I would offer lunch for a ride.

[Spike_916]

Originally Posted by Equilibrium Tuning

Put in an MBC and be done with it

-- Ed

^ what he said...

[lancelucas]

Originally Posted by Equilibrium Tuning

Put in an MBC and be done with it

-- Ed

That'd be a good way to ensure it tapers

[kellygnsd]

Originally Posted by Bariga

i'm not sure what to do at this point, drove on the street today and its over boosting, even with boost per gear settings. Jeff saying 4 port wont work the same as 2 separate solenoids confused

Are you using open loop or closed loop boost control?

[Bariga]

closed loop

[kellygnsd]

If you are set up for continuous logging what are your boost control compensations when you are overboosting?

P-gain(%DC)
I-gain(%DC)
D-gain(%DC)
IAT Wgate comp (%)
ECT Wgate comp (%)
Gear Wgate comp (%)

[Maxwell Power]

Originally Posted by Paul

Did MPS not take it out on the street after the dyno??

I did not because it was 7pm and my father was flying in at 8. We spent 8 hours on the dyno fighting this lame boost control system.

The system it too sensitve. WGDC should not be 30% to hit 28 psi or more. To make it worse, 0-25% gave 12psi. 26% gave 23.

The boost control system is flawed. You can't tune a 1% change to make a 100% increase in boost pressure. Just doesn't work.

[Nuke209]

Ewg ftw

[Phatron]

weld wg's shut. run race gas. ballz to the wall all day

[Equilibrium Tuning]

Originally Posted by Maxwell Power

I did not because it was 7pm and my father was flying in at 8. We spent 8 hours on the dyno fighting this lame boost control system.

The system it too sensitve. WGDC should not be 30% to hit 28 psi or more. To make it worse, 0-25% gave 12psi. 26% gave 23.

The boost control system is flawed. You can't tune a 1% change to make a 100% increase in boost pressure. Just doesn't work.

That's plain stupid and a waste of time. Its never going to work with that kind of inconsistency and such non-linear control. EWG's exist for a reason... especially for larger turbos.

-- Ed

[juanmedina]

The new BW EFR turbos seem like a complete failure so far to me

Any one?

[alcoolaid]

Other cars running it seem to have no problems.

I think the boost control system on this car is too complex. Keep it simple and I'm sure with the right spring/boost combo everything will work fine...

[Maxwell Power]

Originally Posted by juanmedina

The new BW EFR turbos seem like a complete failure so far to me

Any one?

I like the performance, hate the iwg.

[Equilibrium Tuning]

Originally Posted by juanmedina

The new BW EFR turbos seem like a complete failure so far to me

Any one?

We fired up a big build with one recently. The car is on a break-in tune but seemed to have nice drivability and response at low boost. Of course we opted to go the EWG route...

-- Ed

[juanmedina]

Originally Posted by alcoolaid

Other cars running it seem to have no problems.

I think the boost control system on this car is too complex. Keep it simple and I'm sure with the right spring/boost combo everything will work fine...

What other cars? Tino's?

Originally Posted by Maxwell Power

I like the performance, hate the iwg.

Originally Posted by Equilibrium Tuning

We fired up a big build with one recently. The car is on a break-in tune but seemed to have nice drivability and response at low boost. Of course we opted to go the EWG route...

-- Ed

So far the only impresive results that I have seen have been directly from Full-Race or BW....

[reid-o]

Originally Posted by juanmedina

The new BW EFR turbos seem like a complete failure so far to me

Any one?

It's hard to make that claim when the turbo is really a system of features.
I think you're referring to the IWG part of the system only which doesn't mean the rest of the features are not working. The ewg versions showed good results on the EVOs. It just depends on what your evaluation criteria is.

I think the most important point is that the IWG system was supposed to have brought down overall costs for running twinscroll, as that's always the sticking point with a divided setup. The consumer is always asking "why should I pay xxx amount for yyy gains when the data for yyy is not readily apparent." Also the price point for the turbos themselves, even the ewg are not cheap.
The spool and response seem to be as claimed from what I've seen, but I wonder if that response is more due to the compressor to turbine selection than the titanium exhaust wheel. I haven't seen a twinscroll gtx3576r result yet, but I suspect it should perform similarly since the compressor/turbine selection (and flow rate) is very similar. FWIW the twinscroll setups respond well to larger turbine smaller compressor pairings, which Garret hasn't supported till now. If the 3576r responds just as well, then it will show that all of the other features of the EFR don't have as great an effect on performance as the hype leads everyone to believe. The problem is that both turbos are expensive as hell (at least in my opinion). I really want to try the 3576r on my car, but they priced it the same as the gtx3582r, which puts it above 2k for some reason--roughly 400-500 or so more than the gtx3076r.

[B.R.E.D]

I hate that you are having all these issues man. It sure has made my decision to go EWG on my new build easy though.

[thefoos]

Originally Posted by juanmedina

The new BW EFR turbos seem like a complete failure so far to me

Any one?

I know I get overlooked since I'm in a corn field, but...

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2356854

Originally Posted by alcoolaid

Other cars running it seem to have no problems.

I think the boost control system on this car is too complex. Keep it simple and I'm sure with the right spring/boost combo everything will work fine...

Correct. See Below...

Originally Posted by thefoos

Nice results. But this isn't true. Not to say my EFR hasn't been touchy, but I'm in good control with the stock 2 port and BW's high pressure actuator. No overrun, no taper. With the stock ECU running the show.

I agree that it did take a bit of work to nail down a combination that works well. Too much preset on the actuator or too small of a pill, and the turbo would run off on me...

I'll make it easy for you guys. Put a 2 port back on. Use BW's high pressure actuator. Set it to 14 psig. Use a 1.2mm pill.

I can't give you exact WGDC's since I don't have this setup, but with 28-30 psig targets, you'll be north of 50% range.

For clarity, not ripping on the tuning. I don't like the bc system. I wouldn't have even spent the 8 hours on a dyno with it. I would have tossed it out and not even strapped it down.

[reid-o]

Originally Posted by alcoolaid

Other cars running it seem to have no problems.

I think the boost control system on this car is too complex. Keep it simple and I'm sure with the right spring/boost combo everything will work fine...

Imo the problem is also the canister setup. I've never had great results setting up even an ewg with the top and bottom port connected. It always took too long to dial in PID, and I kept having to lower the solenoid frequency to reduce response. I've always found it easier to work off the bottom port and change springs to get close to target and then dial in PID after. I think this is how Anton has it setup in principle similar to hooking up the top port on the EWG.

The problem in my opinion with running both ports--using pressure to keep the gate closed---is that it doesn't always allow the diaphram full travel at some points in the boost curve, as the solenoid or even MBC is is cycling pressure between top and bottom. If it cycles too quickly, it's effectively pressurizing both sides depending on the length of the vacuum lines, effectively limiting travel. Then when you reduce the duty it suddenly swings one way and the diaphram swings open or doesn't at all. I'm sure there's some strategy to make this connection setup work, but after you spend some time, you start to think it's better to just solve the mechanical limitation and increase the spring rate and adjust PID after.

I need to make a correction: I have run both ports succesfully on an ewg system, but it's only when the spring rate is the correct one, and the system performs similarly when I just have one port connected. I ended up changing the spring to a higher rate anyway in other words.

[reid-o]

I think the only way to hookup up a dual port wastegate to make it easy to tune would be to have a bleeder system on the top port that can limit yet give constant steady pressure to the top port and an interrupt solenoid on the bottom port. That would seem to me to tune traditionally. The effect would be like having a larger spring though, but you'd be able to adjust the top port's pressure independently of the bottom simulating different spring rates.


edit: I think a bleeder MBC on the top port and the solenoid in interrupt (or even an MBC) on the bottom would work better. Even that's too complicated for me though.