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Old 02-09-2011, 12:33 PM   #176
Maxwell Power
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it's going to be a torque monster for sure.
Do you wanna go 2.6 and make more torque?

We can keep your pistons, put regular length rods on it and a 83mm crank.
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Old 02-09-2011, 02:45 PM   #177
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it'll bump the CR too
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Old 02-09-2011, 02:56 PM   #178
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it'll bump the CR too
bingo.
Better mileage, better torque and throttle response. Won't rev to 8500 anymore, but will be a better match to the turbo and cams.
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Old 02-09-2011, 05:34 PM   #179
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do that! record the results in HD.
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Old 02-09-2011, 09:01 PM   #180
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I'd like to see it break 560-600ftlbs of torque to the wheels. It might be possible with enough boost and that turbo in it's sweet spot with these cams and a 2.6.
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Old 02-09-2011, 09:39 PM   #181
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grab a junked 83mm crank and offset grind to 86mm with 48mm journals and run sr20 bearings. Of course this would need custom rods for bearings and length.

torque is fun too it just likes to break $h!t
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Old 02-09-2011, 09:43 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
I already tried to use the tool....but once again I have no idea what to input for my setup.....since 50%+ of my inputs would be pure guesses, then what does that say about the output?

Intercooler Effectiveness %
Intercooler Pressure Drop psi
Air Filter Restriction psi
Muffler System Backpressure psi
Compressor Efficiency %
Turbine Efficiency %
Why dont you go fill it out for my setup....spearco, 91+meth, EL header, ext wg, tbe, 3000 ft, 80* F and see what it tells you i need to make 500whp around 26-30psi. Based on teh compressor maps i will say the 8374.....and i would tell a person at sea level the same turbo....and a person at 5000 ft. At sea level the turbo will just have an easier time....and at elevation it will be fine as all the EFR's do very well efficiency wise at high PR's. So no matter what mods...what efficiencies...what elevations....the answer is always going ot be the 8374....simply because the 7670 is too small and the 9180 isnt necessary. If someone has a 2L...the answer is the same...2.2L same answer....2.7L same answer.

You can learn your way through simulations.....and i will learn my way through discussions of real world results.

Well hopefully Ron when I get my car up and running with the AEM I'll be logging turbo rpm, IC delta T, and IC delta P. The more data we get the better it will make it for other match-bot uses since now they'll have a closer approximations for before unknown values. Is it that you don't trust the math behind the match-bot or you don't trust the inputs?
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Old 02-09-2011, 09:57 PM   #183
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I should have been more specific- I have no doubt that MB can predict peak power, but we could already do that using the compressor maps alone. What I'm not confident in is Matchbot's predictions for when we'll reach full boost, and that's also what I'm most interested in about these turbos.
1) we can predict peak power based of comp maps assuming the turbine can support it.

2) I don't think MB can predict spool, but it shows that the turbine can support the flow level required to possibly reach that spool, certainly the turbine expansion ratios are a huge step in electronic predictability, vs just guessing, hence my comment on another thread about time in the equation. Take a closer look, and think about the physics behind turbine expansion ratios.

Obviously there is a ton to learn, but until we get them installed, are we just supposed to not post?

Now that we can share MB, why not discuss it, why not share different configurations? The more we are familiar with it, the more we can extrapolate. If a 2.0 liter on X platform can do this with a 3076, and now we see what that same engine does on a 7670, we can then extrapolate a bit. The more examples we get, the better picture we will have.
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Old 02-09-2011, 10:05 PM   #184
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i like the enthusiasm.
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Old 02-09-2011, 10:18 PM   #185
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Dom is always trying to sell me something
Thats another 1k into it?
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Old 02-10-2011, 03:23 AM   #186
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I just assume that manufacturers will couple their compressors with hot-sides that can cover all of the compressor map, or close to all of it. The difference between the different GT3076 ARs have been covered plenty and I figure that's how things will play out with the new EFRs as well.

I don't have any objection to speculating or calculating. But I can only do that for so long before I get tired of it and just want to see measurements from real world experience. I'm a big fan of understanding how things work, but that takes testing to validate the calculations, and the turbos aren't shipping yet...

But still, I don't believe that a 7670 is going to help us make significantly more power than a GT3076, based on the compressor map alone. I think lots of folks are very close to the 65% lines on the GT3076 maps, and I doubt that a turbine matching will do enough to overcome the face that you need a bunch more boost to get the 7670's 65% line further to the right. With extra octane you can get some extra boost, and timing, so I'm guessing maybe 450-475ish on a dynojet, and 400 on pump gas. Time will tell.
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Old 02-10-2011, 08:50 AM   #187
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But still, I don't believe that a 7670 is going to help us make significantly more power than a GT3076, based on the compressor map alone. I think lots of folks are very close to the 65% lines on the GT3076 maps, and I doubt that a turbine matching will do enough to overcome the face that you need a bunch more boost to get the 7670's 65% line further to the right. With extra octane you can get some extra boost, and timing, so I'm guessing maybe 450-475ish on a dynojet, and 400 on pump gas. Time will tell.
I actually agree with the power numbers you predict for the 7670. In fact, that is all I really want out of my next car.

I just want the better responsiveness the lighter weight wheel gives me, and I also like the fact that I can now consider going TS. Before it was just too complex. How am I suppose to re-route 2 EWGs to the DP, what a PITA that will be. Then how am I suppose to take it apart?

To me the 7670 has 30whp more practical potential then the old 3076, but with a lot of better things in it. But, if it higher altitude, or on a smaller displacement it will separate itself even more from the 3076.
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Old 02-10-2011, 09:21 AM   #188
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Well hopefully Ron when I get my car up and running with the AEM I'll be logging turbo rpm, IC delta T, and IC delta P.
better would be delta P of the compressor outlet and intake manifold...see the actual pressure drop through the piping.
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Old 02-10-2011, 09:59 AM   #189
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better would be delta P of the compressor outlet and intake manifold...see the actual pressure drop through the piping.

When I measured my pressure drop that is what I measured.
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Old 02-10-2011, 10:24 AM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
better would be delta P of the compressor outlet and intake manifold...see the actual pressure drop through the piping.
Placing the inlet pressure transducer closer to the compressor outlet shouldn't be a problem and the MAP was what i was going to use to calculate the delta anyway.
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Old 02-10-2011, 10:30 AM   #191
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You can learn your way through simulations.....and i will learn my way through discussions of real world results.
I will answer the previous in you new thread.

But this I will address here.

Have you measured EGBP on your set-up? Have you played around with all sorts of tuning on EWG and IWG? Have you measured pressure loss of the IC system? Have you measured pressure loss pre-turbo?

I know you have done some of the above, but I have done them all, and will continue to do more testing. I tune just like you, not for money, but because it intrigues me.

If I had an EFR turbo in my hands I would be posting up all sorts of findings, with pretty graphs to boot, but I don't, so I use the simulations to figure things out as best as I can, and I learn as I go.
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Old 02-10-2011, 11:27 AM   #192
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^^ That is perfect for you. You have confidence in your inputs.

I do not have confidence in my inputs...and with a simulation chit in = chit out.
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Old 02-10-2011, 01:35 PM   #193
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^^ That is perfect for you. You have confidence in your inputs.

I do not have confidence in my inputs...and with a simulation chit in = chit out.
Then why do you post about it, why do you start a thread comparing them?

You are plenty smart enough enough to learn, and we can all gain from our collective knowledge.

I have combined my testing of various things with MB, and MB is making things make sense. Hence my excitement for it.

Seeing how a turbine housing affects expansions ratios, and how that affects spool has given me clues as to why the GT3071 doesn't work well on a 2.0 liter. I am sure if we had MB for the GT stuff we would be able to plot it out.

It is all about progress.
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Old 02-10-2011, 01:52 PM   #194
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well...my thread has plots of 2 gtx30's, a gtx35 v gtx30 v gt30, gt35 vs efr 8374, gt30 on e85.....so there are real world results to discuss
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Old 02-10-2011, 02:14 PM   #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kellygnsd View Post
Placing the inlet pressure transducer closer to the compressor outlet shouldn't be a problem and the MAP was what i was going to use to calculate the delta anyway.
be sure calibration is accurate of just use a delta P sensor.
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Old 02-27-2011, 09:59 AM   #196
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of news?
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Old 02-27-2011, 04:23 PM   #197
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nope, waiting on engine completion and turbo arrival. Exhaust valve guides had way too much play for some reason which resulted in slightly bent exhaust valves. The guides are being replaced, the seats are being opened up even more for better flow and the billet crank is being installed to give it 2.6L of displacement.
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Old 03-03-2011, 12:00 AM   #198
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hows everything coming along dom?
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Old 04-04-2011, 01:30 AM   #199
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The engine is almost done,
We went with new JE "lower" compression pistons "i cant even find them online must not be released to public yet"
Heads are ported, with new valves and dual springs, went with kelford B cams to take full advantage of AVCS.
Still waiting for EFR, i hope to see it soon.

Here is 6 hours of pita, and used 100 feet of lava wrap


Last edited by Bariga; 04-28-2011 at 01:42 AM.
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Old 04-04-2011, 03:25 AM   #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bariga
The engine is almost done,
We went with new JE higher compression pistons "i cant even find them online must not be released to public yet"
Heads are ported, with new valves and dual springs, went with kelford B cams to take full advantage of AVCS.
Still waiting for EFR, i hope to see it soon.

Here is 6 hours of pita, and used 100 feet of lava wrap
They are 8.2: 1. Not higher but lower. Lower to suite the efr turbo's ability to push high boost efficiently and still use pump gas with and without meth.
Efr turbos don't really shine at low boost.
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