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Old 12-03-2010, 08:01 PM   #451
04furesterXT
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It would but usually one of the advantages of coilovers is the ability to spec. spring rates to suit your car. Not sure why they'd come with such soft rates in the back. Maybe because the cartridges aren't designed properly?
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Old 12-03-2010, 08:36 PM   #452
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well the spring rates aren't far compared to bc racing's 8k/6k


so only off by 1k.. shouldn't be that big of deal
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Old 12-03-2010, 09:43 PM   #453
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Not sure what the BC comparison means? if 1K isn't that big of a deal to you then I seriously suggest you go the cheapest route and just cut your springs.
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Old 12-03-2010, 09:46 PM   #454
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pffft
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Old 12-03-2010, 09:48 PM   #455
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You read my mind...
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Old 12-03-2010, 10:02 PM   #456
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Originally Posted by 04furesterXT View Post
Are you talking about a Subaru? While a higher rate spring in the front will help to maintain dynamic camber having the rear rates so much softer will only worsen the understeer.

If you can't get the front high enough this is just one of the problems of one size fits all suspension. It's designed to only be "slammed". Pillowballs aren't noisy until they're worn out. Improperly installed or poor quality parts are noisy...
I can see you have way more experiencing surfing the internet than actually wrenching and/or driving a Subaru with its horrid front camber curve. There are a host of world-class autoxers that will disagree with your 'front stiffer than rear will cause understeer' logic. Do you know what 'camber curve' means? Please stop posting until you are able to correlate your opinions based on a less than complete understanding of the situation to empirical data.

But yes, I will give you that the rear spherical bearing strut mounts are sub-par. And that is literally the extent of where these coilovers suffer! Although, I've read several statements by consumers complaining of harsh NVH after installing spherical bearing (pillowball) strut mounts from 'reputable' companies like Cusco etc. The fix is to simply use mounts that are compliant like the stock or Group N units.

Also, the springs are of the conventional 2.5" diameter form factor. This means you can use a Hypercoil or Eibach spring that fits your taste. After driving on these for a few hundred miles, I am of the opinion that the rears are overdamped. I wouldn't be surprised if they used the same damping as the front. Therefore, a set of $100 rear springs in any size/rate you want is the only thing standing between you and being able to spec your spring rate.

Of course, I'm not comparing these to Koni's but the dampers are significantly better than the KYB AGXs I had on the car previously.
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Old 12-03-2010, 10:07 PM   #457
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i put a set on my 06 wrx and they are awesome so far. they have been on there for about 5k miles the only thing i dont like is that there is a clunky noise from them. call cs they hooked me up with a new set and still the same thing. my budy has a set on his 06 civic and has it slammed but no noise from his. also bout a cut out from raceland it works good but didnt put it on the wrx. what do you think it might be pm me. thanks.
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Old 12-03-2010, 10:17 PM   #458
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how long till you heard the clunking? Ive had mine on for a few hundred miles and they are dead quiet. no noises at all.
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Old 12-03-2010, 10:33 PM   #459
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the same day i put them on. i went back and tightened everything.
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Old 12-04-2010, 01:13 AM   #460
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRF582 View Post
I can see you have way more experiencing surfing the internet than actually wrenching and/or driving a Subaru with its horrid front camber curve. There are a host of world-class autoxers that will disagree with your 'front stiffer than rear will cause understeer' logic. Do you know what 'camber curve' means? Please stop posting until you are able to correlate your opinions based on a less than complete understanding of the situation to empirical data.

But yes, I will give you that the rear spherical bearing strut mounts are sub-par. And that is literally the extent of where these coilovers suffer! Although, I've read several statements by consumers complaining of harsh NVH after installing spherical bearing (pillowball) strut mounts from 'reputable' companies like Cusco etc. The fix is to simply use mounts that are compliant like the stock or Group N units.

Also, the springs are of the conventional 2.5" diameter form factor. This means you can use a Hypercoil or Eibach spring that fits your taste. After driving on these for a few hundred miles, I am of the opinion that the rears are overdamped. I wouldn't be surprised if they used the same damping as the front. Therefore, a set of $100 rear springs in any size/rate you want is the only thing standing between you and being able to spec your spring rate.

Of course, I'm not comparing these to Koni's but the dampers are significantly better than the KYB AGXs I had on the car previously.
I can see your imagined suspension expertise is greater than your reading comprehension. I was agreeing with you regarding the camber curve.

While admittedly my knowledge of racing around a parking lot is limited the times I saw that large of a disparity in spring rates front to rear was because of class limitations. Hence 27mm front bar and stock rear. Most other competitive set ups I've seen had equal or higher rates in the rear.

Since you have obviously read some erroneous internet anecdotes regarding increased NVH from pillow ball tops you might consider getting some practical experience with them. I'm at a loss as to why you would consider changing the rates when you swear this is such an awesome autox set up? By the time you buy the proper springs and tops do you still think these are all that?

You might want to consider surfing the Internet for a little knowledge regarding cheap suspension parts. That way next time you won't buy McDonalds and expect sushi quality.
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Old 12-04-2010, 01:31 AM   #461
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04furesterXT View Post

You might want to consider surfing the Internet for a little knowledge regarding cheap suspension parts. That way next time you won't buy McDonalds and expect sushi quality.
bahaha.
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Old 12-04-2010, 05:24 AM   #462
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Guys, stop pissing in each others cheerios. Just tell about your own experience with the coilovers. please.
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Old 12-04-2010, 11:58 AM   #463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04furesterXT View Post
I can see your imagined suspension expertise is greater than your reading comprehension. I was agreeing with you regarding the camber curve.

While admittedly my knowledge of racing around a parking lot is limited the times I saw that large of a disparity in spring rates front to rear was because of class limitations. Hence 27mm front bar and stock rear. Most other competitive set ups I've seen had equal or higher rates in the rear.

Since you have obviously read some erroneous internet anecdotes regarding increased NVH from pillow ball tops you might consider getting some practical experience with them. I'm at a loss as to why you would consider changing the rates when you swear this is such an awesome autox set up? By the time you buy the proper springs and tops do you still think these are all that?

You might want to consider surfing the Internet for a little knowledge regarding cheap suspension parts. That way next time you won't buy McDonalds and expect sushi quality.
Where did I say these were an awesome autoX seup? My autoX comment was directed to refute your 'stiffer front causes understeer' comment which, as it turns out, was due to me incorrectly reading your post. I'll blame it on a long week and some weekend wine.

And what led you to believe that I expected 'sushi' quality? For how much they cost, they are excellent. The shock damping doesn't suck, the spring rates are decent, ride height is adjustable, and they weigh less than stock suspension for reduced unsprung mass.

Also, if you think solid spherical bearing mounts affixed to a metal plate that's mounted directly to the metal strut tower will be as quiet as a stock-like rubber mount... The fronts aren't as much of a problem since they are outside the passenger cabin. The rears however are in the cabin.


Anyway, let's start discussing what we can do to replace the rear strut mounts so there's no metal to metal contact at the chassis. I've considered using rubber 'gaskets' to sandwich between the chassis and the strut mount. But I really like the soft squishy ride of the stock mounts. The rears seem to affect ride quality way more than the front.

So, will I be able to bolt up a stock rear mount to these? How do people install GC coilover sleeves with their stock mounts?
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Old 12-04-2010, 05:24 PM   #464
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hot off the presses! somebody actually took the time to take these apart, analyze and dyno them....

godbless,

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=402079

im still buying these for my miata, just gunna replace the rear spring rates...
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Old 12-06-2010, 06:18 AM   #465
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No...

Aggressive is putting some wide, meaty tires on a wide wheel such that you actually get a performance benefit from the wider wheel. Stretching a narrow tire onto a wide wheel is not aggressive at all. I won't fault you for wanting to put this kind of setup on your car. Everyone has the right to do as they wish with their own property. Just don't use the word "aggressive" when discussing stretching tires and reducing their effectiveness. There is nothing aggressive about it.
MEXIFLUSH - more like 15" x 7 with 5 inch entensions
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Old 12-06-2010, 06:20 AM   #466
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$388 for a full set of coilovers with camber plates...this ought to be interesting. My camber plates alone cost twice that. I'm tempted to buy a set just to take them apart.
WOW
24 karat gold plates
WOW
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Old 12-06-2010, 08:38 AM   #467
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Update - I was able to fix 90% of my noise issues. Turns out I hadn't put enough preload into the springs as I was able to grab the coils and recreate the same types of noise by viciously shaking them. The same light bumps/dips in the road no longer cause a clunking sound. There is a bit of 'click' type noise that is audible if the audios system is off. Keep in mind I haven't yet installed the rear strut top covers that came with the car. These metal covers should be able to silence a majority of the rest of the noise issue though any reasonable amount of radio volume seems to drown it out.

So, my review of these coilovers has gotten even more optimistic! The ride is firm with no bouncyness after large bumps and the ride quality is actually better than my old KYB AGX dampers. Though to be fair, KYB AGX dampers really really suck. Overdamped to hell. And this is with stiffer springs all around. Went from 280/230 lb/in to 450/280 lb/in.

Anyway, these are now ready for long term testing! Let's see what happens.

Last edited by MRF582; 12-06-2010 at 08:53 AM.
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Old 12-07-2010, 08:51 AM   #468
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Figured I'd post here instead of replying to a PM.

Quote:
so what exactly did u do to get rid of that annoying clunking.
Tightened up the preload on the springs. At first I thought I needed just enough preload so when the suspension is in full droop the spring doesn't remain in its natural state and rest against the lower spring perch. So I added just 1 full turn of preload. But then I was able to grab the coils and viciously shake them and recreate a clunking noise. So I kept adding preload till I could no longer grab the springs and shake them. It ended up being a full 5 or so turns of preload. Is that a lot of preload? But if that's what it takes to quiet it down, I don't care.

Of course, my right rear wheel bearing is bad. Can wiggle the wheel at the 12-6 o'clock position with everything torqued down and get it to make a metal on metal noise. So from the driver's seat the right rear is slightly audible unless I have the radio on. The left rear is quiet though.

And another source of noise that will be impossible to solve without rubber strut mounts is the noise the coilovers make when they go to full droop and the shock body bottoms out (or tops out) internally. Since all the connections are metal against metal, that noise gets transmitted fairly well. The solution is to not take your car off sweet jumps.
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Old 12-14-2010, 10:31 AM   #469
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Originally Posted by wrxtremeWGN View Post
hot off the presses! somebody actually took the time to take these apart, analyze and dyno them....

godbless,

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=402079

im still buying these for my miata, just gunna replace the rear spring rates...
Did everyone miss this? Raceland machines a body and stuffs a crappy strut insert into them...like Koni inserts into stock struts and using a Ground Control sleeve...except nowhere near as good as Konis. The damping properties are questionable and, like KSport, none of the dampers matched each other for properties. One at full stiff was softer than the next at full soft. That makes it impossible to properly match the damping and tune the handling of the car.


Yes they are cheap. Yes you can make the car low and LOOK good. You CAN NOT make the car handle well with the Racelands.
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Old 12-14-2010, 11:17 AM   #470
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Not everyone who wants these coil overs wants it to handle like a race car some of us want them for looks
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Old 12-14-2010, 11:25 AM   #471
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Not everyone who wants these coil overs wants it to handle like a race car some of us want them for looks
The people who don't benefit from the level of adjustability offered by coilovers don't need coilovers in the 1st place.
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Old 12-14-2010, 12:48 PM   #472
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Quote:
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Not everyone who wants these coil overs wants it to handle like a race car some of us want them for looks
No ****? I guess I missed the entirety of this thread.

What part of this contradicts what you said?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby921
Yes you can make the car low and LOOK good. You CAN NOT make the car handle well with the Racelands.
I was pointing out that they are good for lowering a car for appearance reasons and not good for anything else. I'm pretty sure that covers the "some of us want them for looks" part.


I really wish you hella flush fan boys would get over yourselves. Saying that these aren't good for performance use isn't a shot at you guys and isn't meant to imply that you are dumb for using them on a daily driver. Its simply stating that these aren't good for track use. Its information for the other 80% of NASIOC's members who prefer a hella functional vehicle. Just because you want to use them on a daily driver doesn't mean we shouldn't put the information out there so someone doesn't make the mistake of using them on a race car.
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Old 12-14-2010, 12:54 PM   #473
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I totally agree and I took what you said wrong. I just like the look that's what I want. You got what you want from your car and I'm trying to do the same. As for them not being a good track coil over how do you know ? I'm curious I have went through 80 percent of this thread and didn't see you owning these or did you ?
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Old 12-14-2010, 01:01 PM   #474
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Yep, agreed.

These probably aren't what I would use for competition. But these are good enough for me for now. The damping is actually more compliant than a KYB AGX shock which has terrible high speed compression damping. These dampers also seem to control the spring well enough with no oscillation. The car feels 'better' over repetitive high amplitude undulations than my AGX dampers. But I don't know if I'm sacrificing a compliant ride for traction. It rides just slightly stiffer than my E36 M3 with stock springs + Bilstein dampers.
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Old 12-14-2010, 01:51 PM   #475
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Not everyone who wants these coil overs wants it to handle like a race car some of us want them for looks
Well, that's one point of view, but when they ride like crap, clunk, leak, and one of them snaps in half sending your car into the center divider that warranty on the inserts isn't going to do you a lot of good. And I do see shocks broken in half on occasion, but more commonly it's bent or cracked camber plates. Having the strut punch a hole in the hood sure would be fun.
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