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Old 03-11-2012, 06:28 PM   #626
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yea, its still scary. I mean the people i know with racelands say they are fine. just dont plan on beasting your car on the track.
I mean for the money, you run them for a year, they blow then they send you another set under warranty. <--- thats the tempting part
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Old 03-11-2012, 08:04 PM   #627
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRF582 View Post
How many BC Coilovers are running around for that one known catastrphic failure? Tens of thousands.

How many Racelands are running around for this one failure? Oh, 3 sets on NASIOC?
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Old 03-11-2012, 09:23 PM   #628
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I love the amount of hatred regarding these coils. From all the pages i have read, this is what i have gathered. These are opinions based on previous posts and accounts from people who ACTUALLY own these.

- They work and do what they are designed to do (lower your car for cheap)
-Are not good for an intended track car
-They are not the most comfortable for DD (dunkin donuts)
-They have a 2 year warranty ( Use for year then get a new set under warranty)
-The makers cannot spell Damping
-Spring Rate : Front – 450 lbs/inch Rear – 280 lbs/inch
-Many local VW owners here in maine use them year round (some love / some hate)

Reasons To buy
-Cheap
-Awesome warranty
-Want to lower car NOW!

Reasons not to buy
-You intend to drive aggressively
-you dont want to change out suspension once a year (or more depending how long your set lasts)
-Your a fatass who will blow them out in one day


This thread is really a **** show when it comes to really deciding whether to buy
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Old 03-11-2012, 09:37 PM   #629
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Originally Posted by MRF582 View Post
D-Specs Failure -

Wait, I've never seen one fail.

Just sayin'....

It typically takes a lot to actually break a product like that. Much of the issue revolves around low bump travel and harsh impacts. If you bottom out the car, the impact doesn't go anywhere. You stop soaking up the bump and basically attempt to punch the car off the ground. That imparts a massive amount of force through the suspension, chassis, everything really. You can pop tires, bend rims, break suspension components, or even shove the damper right through the hood (would require plate failure). Suspension stroke and bump travel are king.
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Old 03-12-2012, 01:35 AM   #630
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prozak View Post
I love the amount of hatred regarding these coils. From all the pages i have read, this is what i have gathered. These are opinions based on previous posts and accounts from people who ACTUALLY own these.

- They work and do what they are designed to do (lower your car for cheap)
-Are not good for an intended track car
-They are not the most comfortable for DD (dunkin donuts)
-They have a 2 year warranty ( Use for year then get a new set under warranty)
-The makers cannot spell Damping
-Spring Rate : Front – 450 lbs/inch Rear – 280 lbs/inch
-Many local VW owners here in maine use them year round (some love / some hate)

Reasons To buy
-Cheap
-Awesome warranty
-Want to lower car NOW!

Reasons not to buy
-You intend to drive aggressively
-you dont want to change out suspension once a year (or more depending how long your set lasts)
-Your a fatass who will blow them out in one day


This thread is really a **** show when it comes to really deciding whether to buy
Pretty much all VW owners are inherently retarded, that goes without saying and your mindset should be against basically anything they are for. You may think that I'm saying that jokingly, but I'm 100% serious.

The price price is not a pro; if you've read thru this you'd see why it's one of the things that should be scaring you away from them. The fact of the matter is that the company is selling these kits at such a low price for reason. The price price is not a pro, if you've read thru this you'd see why it's one of the things that should be scaring you away from them. Corners were cut, and with something as important as your suspension, that should bother you. The pictures I posted can result in a totaled car and severe bodily injury. I bet their warranty will be great if you die or your car is finished off. Having a great warranty is only good is the product you had problems can lay claim to some semblance of quality.
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Old 03-12-2012, 02:05 AM   #631
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even though i don't agree completely with the "retarded" vw drivers. I do agree on the cheap cost = cheap product idea as clearly laid out by scooby921s post earlier in the thread. I only considered these or the rokkors because of my friend with an 04 sti. He has racelands and they have been fine for over a year now. We live in maine and the roads are less the amazing.
It leaves me torn between what i have actually seen and what i have been reading on the forums.

Byzantium if you had to go with a lower cost method to eliminate wheel gap what would you choose? Im serious, im interested in learning.
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Old 03-12-2012, 02:19 AM   #632
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I'm not going to be able to give you the answer you want because we're on opposite ends of the form vs function table. I would be the one to tell you that coilovers are not meant for anything other than a car that races competitively and that they are not meant for slamming cars. (along the lines of: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1701132). I could recommend an inexpensive combination of springs and struts, but they will cost more than the Racelands and I have a feeling they won't satisfy what your expectations for reducing wheel gap. But the reality is that pretty much any option you go with, short of cutting springs, is going to be a better idea.
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Old 03-12-2012, 08:24 AM   #633
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Have the prices come back down on D-specs yet? You could couple them with a set of Ground Control coilover sleeves and get better damping, more reliable quality, and still have the ability to pick your spring rates and fine-tune ride height to your liking. Of course with that option you still lose compression travel in the dampers as you lower the car.
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Old 03-12-2012, 09:18 AM   #634
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Originally Posted by vision.dynamix View Post
How many BC Coilovers are running around for that one known catastrphic failure? Tens of thousands.

How many Racelands are running around for this one failure? Oh, 3 sets on NASIOC?
You clearly aren't aware of just how many BMWs and VWs are currently driving around with Racelands on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Byzantium View Post
The price price is not a pro; if you've read thru this you'd see why it's one of the things that should be scaring you away from them. The fact of the matter is that the company is selling these kits at such a low price for reason. The price price is not a pro, if you've read thru this you'd see why it's one of the things that should be scaring you away from them. Corners were cut, and with something as important as your suspension, that should bother you. The pictures I posted can result in a totaled car and severe bodily injury. I bet their warranty will be great if you die or your car is finished off. Having a great warranty is only good is the product you had problems can lay claim to some semblance of quality.
So you're saying we shouldn't cheap out and put our lives at risk over some $2500 coilovers? Should we pay more for them? How much? Is $3500 enough?
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Old 03-12-2012, 09:27 AM   #635
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Those are JICs, nothing else needs to be said. You're in good company. The point is that for $400 you really shouldn't have any real expectations for what people normally demand for their money.

Last edited by Byzantium; 03-12-2012 at 11:21 AM.
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Old 03-12-2012, 11:13 AM   #636
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRF582 View Post
You clearly aren't aware of just how many BMWs and VWs are currently driving around with Racelands on.


So you're saying we shouldn't cheap out and put our lives at risk over some $2500 coilovers? Should we pay more for them? How much? Is $3500 enough?

The point is that you can't make a good product for cheap. You can obviously make a bad product expensive, but you cannot possibly make a good product for cheap. There isn't enough money available in the purchase price.

You can hardly get a set of dampers (let alone struts) for $400, so how could you possibly get a set of dampers plus all the other crap that goes with a coilover (tophats with bearings, mounting stuff, springs, etc.) for $400.
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Old 03-12-2012, 11:25 AM   #637
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Here's a MazdaSpeed coilover that broke :
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=208381
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=155940

Looks like even an OEM with all their R&D money can't get this right. Based on the facts presented in this thread, it seems there is no correlation between price and quality. This is contrary to what the Raceland haters are pushing.

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Old 03-12-2012, 11:29 AM   #638
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Originally Posted by MRF582 View Post
Based on the facts presented in this thread, it seems there is no correlation between price and quality.
It only took you 18 words to toss out any credibility you could have possibly have laid claim to. It won't take a "hater" to realize that.
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Old 03-12-2012, 12:10 PM   #639
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Haters were arguing that you must spend more than $400 on a coilover to get a quality part. I demonstrated that statement to be untrue. Simply spending more on a coilover does not guarantee quality. Therefore, that argument is null and void.

I motion we move the discussion to something more tangible. Let's get some engineering analysis in here of why the parts failed. Maybe there is a common theme across all of these coilover failures (Raceland, BC, JIC, MazdaSpeed) presented in this thread. Price is certainly not one of them.

At the very least, pull the plug on your broken record.
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Old 03-12-2012, 12:13 PM   #640
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Originally Posted by MRF582 View Post
I demonstrated that statement to be untrue.
When? I've gone 3 pages back looking for it.
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Old 03-12-2012, 12:21 PM   #641
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OK...I'll humor you.

These are examples of people spending 2 to 5 times the amount on coilovers and still experiencing catastrophic failure.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...&postcount=625
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...&postcount=637

It is very likely there is a common theme across all these failures. Price is not it.
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Old 03-12-2012, 12:31 PM   #642
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Byzantium View Post
I'm not going to be able to give you the answer you want because we're on opposite ends of the form vs function table. I would be the one to tell you that coilovers are not meant for anything other than a car that races competitively and that they are not meant for slamming cars. (along the lines of: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1701132). I could recommend an inexpensive combination of springs and struts, but they will cost more than the Racelands and I have a feeling they won't satisfy what your expectations for reducing wheel gap. But the reality is that pretty much any option you go with, short of cutting springs, is going to be a better idea.
screw form over function. By reducing wheel gap i dont mean slam, i just dont wanna look like im lifted lol. Im not looking for comp style suspension and yet i dont wanna be part of that stance/hella flush crowd.
Plus i have a habit of playing devils advocate. I would love this suspension setup to be my answer, but most likely ill be listening to scooby921 and looking into some d specs or hell maybe even some koni inserts.
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Old 03-12-2012, 12:51 PM   #643
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRF582 View Post
OK...I'll humor you.

These are examples of people spending 2 to 5 times the amount on coilovers and still experiencing catastrophic failure.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...&postcount=625
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...&postcount=637

It is very likely there is a common theme across all these failures. Price is not it.
I typed a long response but decided to delete it. You're a lost cause basing your entire position on logical fallacy. All you have to bring to the table is a straw man defense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prozak View Post
screw form over function. By reducing wheel gap i dont mean slam, i just dont wanna look like im lifted lol. Im not looking for comp style suspension and yet i dont wanna be part of that stance/hella flush crowd.
Plus i have a habit of playing devils advocate. I would love this suspension setup to be my answer, but most likely ill be listening to scooby921 and looking into some d specs or hell maybe even some koni inserts.
Good on you. If you're trying to keep it cheaper KYB AGXs are also on the table, but the Koni inserts and D-Specs (what I run) are unquestionably better choices. Your options really depend on what spring rates you want to run. I'd also replace the top hats when you get in there as they tend to wear out with age.

Last edited by Byzantium; 03-12-2012 at 12:56 PM.
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Old 03-12-2012, 01:04 PM   #644
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Originally Posted by Byzantium View Post
Good on you. If you're trying to keep it cheaper KYB AGXs are also on the table, but the Koni inserts and D-Specs (what I run) are unquestionably better choices. Your options really depend on what spring rates you want to run. I'd also replace the top hats when you get in there as they tend to wear out with age.

Yea, i plan on gettin rid of the top hats regardless. Now with the koni inserts. I know ill need 04 tophats but can i use a set of 02 struts for the housing?
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Old 03-12-2012, 01:46 PM   #645
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I typed a long response but decided to delete it. You're a lost cause basing your entire position on logical fallacy. All you have to bring to the table is a straw man defense.
Actually, it is you who is using a 'straw man argument'.

I say 'price != quality'.
You say 'cheap parts fail' and present a picture of a cheap part failing while claiming that the part failed because it was cheap. <- straw man argument.
I then present pictures showing cheap and expensive parts failing reinforcing my original position which is 'one cannot look at a part failure and say it failed because the part was cheap'.
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Old 03-12-2012, 02:41 PM   #646
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Originally Posted by MRF582 View Post
Actually, it is you who is using a 'straw man argument'.

I say 'price != quality'.
You say 'cheap parts fail' and present a picture of a cheap part failing while claiming that the part failed because it was cheap. <- straw man argument.
I then present pictures showing cheap and expensive parts failing reinforcing my original position which is 'one cannot look at a part failure and say it failed because the part was cheap'.

actually if you go back in the thread you will read byzantium and scooby921 discussing how its impossible to build a coilover at this price point with any standards of quality what so ever. Then read the write up done on the miata website regarding these coilovers. If your part of the hellaflush/stance crowd then i think these are deff the right product for you. If you want performance and longevity, i would look somewhere else.

This is what i was told and i know have a new respect for a lot of the "haters" of racelands.
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Old 03-12-2012, 02:47 PM   #647
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MRF582 did you not read Sn1pers post? He explained it very well. Or are you just playing "winnar on the Intarnets"

Of course "Price != Quality" there are overpriced products out there and it is up to the consumer to hopefully figure that out. A proof of one failure of any product is not enough data to judge anything.

The point others have made, and it is a good one, is that $400 itself, even taking out the R&D cost and profit margins along the way, is not enough money to even build a proper set of dampers much less an entire set of coilovers.

So your premise against that...is that Raceland has discovered some secret damper sauce, that allows super cheap awesome dampers that ride and handle well, and that Bilstein and Tokico have not discovered yet?

Or more likely...$400 coilovers are bound to be disposable crap. I guess there will always be those who will argue when something walks like a duck and talks like a duck, and a couple water fowl experts think it is a duck, that there is no way it is a duck...sucker born every minute and all that. Americans seem very susceptible to this, I'm sure I am guilty of buying some stupid cheap barely functional products, like my cheap vacuum cleaner. I couldn't care less about being a vacuum cleaner enthusiast, but I know enough about suspensions not to be duped by cheap coilovers.
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Old 03-12-2012, 03:21 PM   #648
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Of course "Price != Quality" there are overpriced products out there and it is up to the consumer to hopefully figure that out. A proof of one failure of any product is not enough data to judge anything.
Exactly! Though, byzantium disagrees with us.

Are byzantium and scooby921 Manufacturing Engineers? Or are they just two 'arm-chair quarterbacks' who are grasping at straws (hehe) trying to explain something they don't understand? People often make things up to explain that which they don't understand... Religion, for example.

Also, 'riding and handling well' is somewhat subjective. Yes, these things arent going to control unsprung mass as well and ride as well as Konis but then again, neither do AGXs. They ride like **** with their horrid overdamped curves at high piston speeds.

Regarding safety, does anyone know what it takes to get TUV approval? Because Raceland is capable of making a set of E36 coilovers that received TUV approval. And they cost even less than Subaru coilovers... http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=720147

Last edited by MRF582; 03-12-2012 at 03:38 PM.
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Old 03-13-2012, 01:18 AM   #649
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Originally Posted by MRF582 View Post
Are byzantium and scooby921 Manufacturing Engineers? Or are they just two 'arm-chair quarterbacks' who are grasping at straws (hehe) trying to explain something they don't understand? People often make things up to explain that which they don't understand... Religion, for example.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=720147
actually i believe scooby921 is an engineer hence why he has his own strut spacers sold by turn in concepts. Guy knows his stuff.

These coilovers are fine for getting a quick drop on your car, but they simply dont last. They are the disposable camera of coilovers, they get the job done but are not a d40 and have to be changed every 24 frames.
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Old 03-13-2012, 12:32 PM   #650
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These coilovers are fine for getting a quick drop on your car, but they simply dont last.
Just a couple of days ago you knew nothing about these. Now you know 'they simply don't last'?

I've been daily driving on these since Fall of 2010. Been through 2 Pittsburgh winters. Only have a little over 10K on them though since I mainly drove my other car during the warmer months.

The dampers still control the unsprung mass as well as they did in 2010. These actually ride better than KYB AGXs which are too harsh over bumps. But these still don't float in corners and in fact, feel quite firm. but maybe that's because I installed them at this ride height and didn't slam my car to the weeds.

The only gripe I have with them is the spherical bearings suck. I plan on spending less than $100 for higher quality replacement bearings from Aurora or Mid-west Control.

Last edited by MRF582; 03-13-2012 at 12:39 PM.
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