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View Poll Results: Built motor break-ins Easy vs. Hard
Easy break-in 70 26.72%
Hard break-in 192 73.28%
Voters: 262. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-05-2010, 10:28 PM   #51
ScoobyNubieToo!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sidewayz View Post
Chris are you on open source? If so I can do a base map to get you around to be safe. Also if we get the dyno delivered sooner we will most likely be able to get it up and running in time to break your motor in.
I would love that! That would be great! And yes, I'm currently running Open Source. Can't wait until she's done...it's gonna be NICE!
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Old 09-06-2010, 12:10 AM   #52
williaty
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I can only relate my personal experiences, plus add the statement that the rough break in actually makes more sense.

Engine 1: Broke in according to Subaru's specifications (easy). Made sure to not hold at any engine speed, low throttle, reduced redline, etc. Engine burnt oil since brand new. Started at 3/4qt per 1000mi, quickly rose to 1.2qt/1000mi, finally died at 2qt/1000mi. Always had problems with knock, poor fuel economy. Engine made considerably less power than other similar engines on the same dyno. On tear down, there was horrible blow by burns on the piston (much worse than the pictures from a textbook of what bad blowby looks like). Burnt the top of the rod as well. Oil ring was seized to the piston.

Engine 2: Broke in rough. Warmed oil to operating temp with a pan heater. Started car, burped coolant, waited for coolant to hit 180F (oil already at 180F from pan heater, dipped slightly as it began to circulate). Idled it out of my driveway, pinned the throttle to the floor in 1st gear from 1kRPM to 7kRPM. Coasted down in-gear. Huge show of smoke (and terrified driver). Shifted to 3rd, pinned throttle to floor from 3kRPM to 7kRPM. Strong smoke, considerably less though. Coasted down in gear. Pinned throttle to floor from 2kRPM to 7kRPM in 3rd again. Minimal smoke, coasted down in gear. On the 4the 3rd gear WOT pull, the smoke was gone. I repeated the 3rd gear pulls/coast downs until the oil temp hit 240F. I then switched to half-throttle pulls with coast down until the oil temp dropped back to 210F. I then went back to WOT pulls until the oil hit 240F, then cooled it down, etc. I did this for 20 miles non-stop, finished at the foot of my driveway, coasted into the garage, shut it down, and changed the oil and filter. I re-warmed the oil with the pan heater, got the car back up to operating temp, and then did another 180mi of drive-it-like-I-stole-it (much WOT, always coasting down in gear). At 200mi (total), I gave it another oil change and then started driving it normally.

Result of that was an engine that consumes NO oil even when run hard, is more willing to rev, gets about 10% better fuel economy, and makes 13-15% more power.



So, based on that, I'm firmly in the "rape it" camp.
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Old 09-06-2010, 10:16 AM   #53
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^Good information.

I broke in my stock STI short block per Subaru's instructions and I had the same problems as you. She gradually started using more and more oil and eventually failed. At this point we're still unsure if this was the reason, but when we build the motor up again, I am FOR SURE giving it a hard break in.

This thread should be stickied IMO.
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Old 09-08-2010, 02:20 PM   #54
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Our 08 Sti lost a ringland at 4500 miles due to a lean spot at around 6400 rpm the tuner missed in the map. I worked as a Subaru tech at the time, so i honed it, dropped a new piston and all new rings in it. at 4500 miles, it had consumed roughly 2 quarts of oil breaking it in using the 'nice' method. It smoked on startup every time.

the 'new' motor went to it's first race with about 300 miles on it.

Drove it normally for about 20 miles, then changed the oil and drove it hard, always using the engine as a brake to build up pressure and help seat the rings. First race at 300 miles, first drag race at about 800 miles. The car has now been through two full seasons of auto-x with two drivers both seasons, about a dozen track days, and 40-50 passes down the dragstrip.

27K miles, no smoke, compression perfect at 154-155 across the board, and uses about 1/4 of a quart of oil every 4500 miles...mostly because of the racing.

<--- Big fan of break it in hard.
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Old 09-09-2010, 10:26 PM   #55
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Just had my motor built and I inquired about "proper break in". The builder told me that he "doesn't believe in break in", meaning that once he's done with it on the dyno, it IS broken in.

I really had a lot of misgivings about this, since I'd always read that I needed to vary speed, keep from reving over 4K, etc. However, after reading through this thread I'm a lot more comfortable with it.
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Old 09-13-2010, 07:07 PM   #56
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Just finished last night and I tool the Williaty advice. However I started with an empty tank, so I only got about 9 miles of raping the motor. Rode it hard the next morning and now have ~30 miles. Going to do some more hard driving and change the oil and filter when I get home.
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Old 09-13-2010, 07:38 PM   #57
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awesome keep us in the loop...we all love videos!
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Old 10-06-2010, 03:36 PM   #58
Drew888
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Any updates?

I still have a bunch of reading to do as this is my first time having a motor built.

Parts are being gathered now as I paid my deposit with Garage Tuning a few days ago.

Problems with a hard break in for me are around two issues 1) my clutch is going so I may be also breaking in a new clutch at the same time. 2) I have chosen to up my compression so I cannot romp on it without getting it tuned (a week after I receive the car back and I will need to commute to work 100 mi/day until the following weekend for a tune) OR I can romp on it at wastegate only boost.

Suggestions? I am considering keeping the clutch until its broken in....dunno yet.

-Drew
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Old 10-06-2010, 04:00 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew888 View Post
OR I can romp on it at wastegate only boost.


-Drew
boost is boost. just don't forget to engine-brake whenever slowing down.
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Old 10-06-2010, 04:02 PM   #60
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Hard broken in motor continues to pull hard, rev well, get better gas mileage, and still hasn't consumed a drop of oil.

1) The clutch doesn't care how you break in the engine. The flooring of the engine is done only after the clutch is fully locked up. No strain on the clutch.

2) I would romp on it at wastegate pressure. Hell, if I can break an engine in on an NA, you sure as hell can at wastegate pressure Seriously, just give it some positive pressure over the whole RPM range, then coast it down in gear. Those are the keys.
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Old 10-06-2010, 05:05 PM   #61
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How do you guys feel about hard road break in vs. dyno break in? Pros/Cons of either?

I'm super nervous about the next time I go to rebuild and break in my motor. I "babied" my brand new stock EJ257 following Subaru's guidelines, but now the car is sitting in a garage with a blown ring. Was it the cause? I don't know, but I do know for sure that the next break in after it's rebuilt will be a hard break in.
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Old 10-06-2010, 05:08 PM   #62
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It'd be a hell of a lot easier, if you had it at a reasonable price for a day, to do it on the dyno.

Push it up on the dyno, start it for the very first time on the rollers, warm it up at low throttle and low RPM, do 20 miles of dyno pulls, push it off, dump the oil, then put it back on the dyno for as long as you can afford. Much easier than trailering it out in the country (so that you can immediately get on it) to start it for the first time.
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Old 10-06-2010, 08:25 PM   #63
Drew888
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For some of us there is no trailering (man that would be nice. Anyone got one and want to hang out for an afternoon? ).

I'll pick it up, vary my driving as much as possible paying attention to decelleration, and looking like an @$$hat all over town. Only city streets for those first 20 critical miles.
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Old 10-06-2010, 08:59 PM   #64
williaty
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Well, "trailering" in my case meant a tow strap and a garden tractor pulling the car to get it to the open road

Here's what I'd do if I were stuck in suburbia. I'd start the damned thing in the driveway, spend no more than 2-3 minutes burping the coolant. BABY BABY BABY it as far as I could until the oil temp hit 160F or so. Then romp on it through the last bit of suburbia and out into the country. If you really had to, getting straight on the freeway at like 4am would work as well. Pick a gear that you can stay under the speed limit at redline and have at in the slow lane with your hazards on.
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Old 10-07-2010, 02:14 PM   #65
Drew888
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Hahaha...nice,

I'll give it a go and hope for no ticket.
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Old 03-10-2011, 09:34 AM   #66
Glycerin
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uh, ok, thx ^^.

In other news, about a week ago I was at VIR with the new motor for the first time. I didn't have to add a drop of oil! very excited about that. 3.5 hours of on track driving. also, compression test came back as 140, 140, 138, 140.

as a point of reference, i had 5000 rpm redline and boost cut; wastegate boost of 17 lbs for the first 1000 miles. I did push it up there at least once every time the car was driven when warm only. car was always allowed to warm up before being driven.
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Old 03-10-2011, 10:15 AM   #67
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Here's a question for you all, I'm building a 2.3L currently and will be using (more than likely) a borg warner s256 for a turbo, the car was ran previously as a 2.0 running e85 at 20 psi stock turbo, how should I get it tuned? Should I just load up my utec, type in all the info for it such as the engine size and injector size, then idle til warmed up while adjusting the fuel and timing maps and tune as I go?
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Old 03-10-2011, 10:21 AM   #68
jetski247
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i would like to chime in that break in is important but what is prob most important is material used on piston rings.

sea doo engines for examply come with a top "L" dyke ring that is chrome plated and requires 10hrs of break in..........yeah, 10 hrs is a long time on the water but the chrome ring is so hard that it take a long time for break in and dogging the snot out of it might not be a good thing since it can't "in theory" seal perfect in its early life. but once it does seat...........it will last for a long long time.

most piston rings i use that are aftermarket come with a coating that is suppose to "speed" up ring seal. on these engines, it is very important to break the engine in given the short window of opportunity that you have. most important is no steady throttle, you need to vary the rpm as much as possible so you look like an idiot on the water for the first tank of gas.

since motomans methods prob work on street bikes, we don't know what ring material is used on those bike engines. that window might be short as it is in most jet ski engines as well.............so on a scoobie engine, ring material is a huge questions as is any coatings on the rings.

i'm sure there are a huge selection of ring material used for the multitude of aftermarket piston/rings available to us. another note, final hone pattern plays a role in ring material too. sea doo uses three different grit stones to do a deep, mid and short crosshatch pattern to aid in the long break in of the "L" dyke ring which is prob about 3 times more surface area than a standard ring.

i agree with motomans break in methods but there are some rings that are different and i can't say that his methods apply to all engines by no means.

the pole at the top needs a third option..........depends on ring material/coating/crosshatch pattern used and engine type.
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Old 05-02-2012, 11:22 PM   #69
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Default Compression check is proof. other comments are anecdotal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glycerin View Post
uh, ok, thx ^^.

In other news, about a week ago I was at VIR with the new motor for the first time. I didn't have to add a drop of oil! very excited about that. 3.5 hours of on track driving. also, compression test came back as 140, 140, 138, 140
Hooray! Some hard evidence. A compression test is the only way to say the motor's rings are sealing well. "Not smoking" is meaningless. Low oil consumption might be meaningful. What consumption rate is considered OK? Are you racing or putting around on the street? What is/was your boost level?
While this thread is interesting and has some value, those who say, "See, it's not smoking and has not blown up yet" is anecdotal and meaningless.
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Old 12-01-2012, 02:56 PM   #70
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Yes...but keep in mind 140 is pretty low, at least when compared to OEM specs. My 90k stock EJ255 block has 158-160 across the board...

I forget what the OEM range is but 140 is the lower end. And yes, I know that would be comparing OEM machine, pistons/rings, assembly and materials
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Old 12-01-2012, 03:49 PM   #71
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Hard for me.


Fire up motor, make sure fluids are topped off, no leaks. Idle for 10 minutes change oil. Drive around neighborhood getting fuel trims where I want. After that I start boosting. No real boost limit.

No oil consumption this way for me at all.
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Old 12-01-2012, 04:21 PM   #72
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drove mine like i stole it. still burns oil but not nearly as much as my OEM engine did. about 1/4 as much.
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Old 12-01-2012, 04:24 PM   #73
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What oil are you using? And still have pcv
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Old 12-01-2012, 04:50 PM   #74
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140 psi is on the low side of things. My built stroker with 25K miles just did 160, 162, 160, 161 cold...
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Old 12-01-2012, 05:23 PM   #75
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Excellent ^ !!!!!
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