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View Poll Results: Built motor break-ins Easy vs. Hard
Easy break-in 70 26.32%
Hard break-in 196 73.68%
Voters: 266. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-01-2012, 05:26 PM   #76
soobaviator
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Oil is Castrol 0W30 changed every 2K miles
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Old 12-01-2012, 06:16 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soobaviator View Post
Oil is Castrol 0W30 changed every 2K miles
good oil
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Old 12-01-2012, 10:28 PM   #78
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I'm building a hybrid. With wiseco pistons and rings.

I'm not tuned for the pinks I'm running. I have to drive 2.5 hours to get my tune and it's highway all the way.

Should I still follow the hard break in? From what I hear the oem ecu acomidates for 25% fuel variation but does this still apply for hard break ins?
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Old 12-02-2012, 02:26 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04ScoobyWtf View Post
I'm building a hybrid. With wiseco pistons and rings.

I'm not tuned for the pinks I'm running. I have to drive 2.5 hours to get my tune and it's highway all the way.

Should I still follow the hard break in? From what I hear the oem ecu acomidates for 25% fuel variation but does this still apply for hard break ins?
Does that apply to CL only?
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Old 12-02-2012, 08:48 AM   #80
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Trailer the car, the first few miles are essential. You don't want to be dumping fuel and washing out your cylinders and contaminating your oil.
Get the injectors scaled.

What I tell my customers,

Run some high zinc conventional motor oil or add zddp, and bring up the rpms and let it decel, all the way down, and repeat that for at least 10 miles. You need boost and some load to seat the rings, unless you want a motor that smokes a lot.

Last edited by Flat 4 Motorsport; 12-02-2012 at 09:01 AM.
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Old 12-02-2012, 01:20 PM   #81
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Jr boosted my car to 15psi 5500rpm with 0 miles on it just cam break in was done and car was warmed up few times.

I'd slowly go threw the gears short shifting 1-6th then down shift all gears rev match 2nd 1st do it again with a little more boost. Then just boost it hard let the car completely cool down after then. Then do it again.
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Old 12-02-2012, 01:22 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flat 4 Motorsport View Post
Trailer the car, the first few miles are essential. You don't want to be dumping fuel and washing out your cylinders and contaminating your oil.
Get the injectors scaled.

What I tell my customers,

Run some high zinc conventional motor oil or add zddp, and bring up the rpms and let it decel, all the way down, and repeat that for at least 10 miles. You need boost and some load to seat the rings, unless you want a motor that smokes a lot.
This is what I've had good experiences with. After a couple laps around the neighborhood doing LOTS of decel in gear, I started doing boosted pulls. 15 psi from the 3794r is enough to make some decent power. At first I was a little concerned about hammering the engine so soon but by 500 miles we had it making 30psi and it loved every second of it. No smoke, no oil burning.
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Old 12-02-2012, 01:41 PM   #83
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Put the motor in, dino oil with breaking additives, start it up and clean up any leaks, if good let it get to operating temp, shut it down and make sure everything is good.

Take it out to the highway, hard pulls in all gears and take your foot off the gas and engine brake between pulls, do this a dozen time bring it home, shut it down and change the oil. Dino oil + breakin additives again. Same process after everything cools down.

Bring it home and let it cool down. From then on drive like you stole it... Check torques @ 500 miles, Change oil @ 1000mile and start with synthethic oils...

Ray
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Old 12-02-2012, 04:12 PM   #84
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Brad Penn 30wt is great for hard break ins for the first ~500 miles or so.
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Old 12-02-2012, 06:21 PM   #85
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My plan was running napa 10w40 on initial start change after 20 min of idling at temp. Change oil with 10-40 again run for 100 ten 500 then at 1000 I'd start rotella 5w40 after that. And i was gonna use the hard break in. Do I just need to adjust my fuel trims or something else since I have a higher cr with being a hybrid?
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Old 12-02-2012, 07:00 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04ScoobyWtf
My plan was running napa 10w40 on initial start change after 20 min of idling at temp. Change oil with 10-40 again run for 100 ten 500 then at 1000 I'd start rotella 5w40 after that. And i was gonna use the hard break in. Do I just need to adjust my fuel trims or something else since I have a higher cr with being a hybrid?
Add some zddp, to help aid with wear in of the rings, if you're going to just run napa dino 10w40. Do that with every oil change up to 3k till you switch to syn.
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Old 12-08-2012, 01:22 PM   #87
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i build engines for customers all over, i reccomend that when you put this fresh newly machined engine into your car put some oil init 10w-40 is what i use cheap stuff, good oil filter. then start it up have a frnd in the car so if something sounds off they can kill it faster then you running to turn the key. but listen!!!!!! for anything look for anything!!!! leaks sounds anything. check coolant levels, oil levels. let it idl for about five min after intial start. then start hit the throttle now when i saw hit the throttle im not saying go drive it. sitting in your drive way with your frnd inside. grab the throttle and hit it, and repeat like a mad man, nothing over 4K. just hit and let go back to idle hit it and as it starts to go back down hit it again. once she has warmed up. and has been warm for ten min and nothing is changed shut her off. go inside and sleep. for about 9 to 12 hours. come back out and there she sets,.... now jack her up and drain the oil. and pull the oil filter. put your desired oil and filter. start her up once the work is done and let idle and hit the throttle here and there to help her warm up. once she is starting to warm up go for a spin, always make sure to have a good flashlight on you, and always be looking for something to go wrong, it may not, but the ones who are not prepared will be the ones in dispair. so just play it cool and smart. driving wise ALWAYS change RPM never stay the same. alot of people will tkae that new motor and go and slam it in cruize at 70 for the next hour of her life. NO change it up always for at least the first 1000 miles. very important key. heck if your going down a street and feel the urge just rev it up , down****, up ****, all this allows the motor to break in. we all have the urge to rape the throttle once we get it on the street and that is fine!!! seriously if the motor was built correct she can handle it, now at the NEW stage the engine CANNOT hanlde it all the time NO REVLIMITER HERE seriously thatll spin a bearing in no time. just hit her up to 6500 , now once she has had a god 500 miles of fun a break in change oil again ( never no if some debris is in there) then drive for the next 500 miles, then change oil again, and then your cycle of changing every 3000-4500 is what you should go ahead and start doing. ALWAYS watch your gauges and check fluid levels for the first couple thousand miles. but yea that is how i always do it,.... no problems yet good luck gents
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Old 12-08-2012, 03:15 PM   #88
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^Yup. I still try to vary RPM's Mostly try to keep it out of low RPM cruise areas 3k is nice because It's easier to vary RPM load areas at that RPM. That's the 2nd/3rd step to the break in You mentioned the first step with your post above me. 2nd step would be what I mentioned above try to hold load from 1st -6th gear then engine brake 6th back down to 1st. I recommend rev matching 2nd and 1st to ease gear selection. Again with boost adding boost throttle dependent till you eventually hit your w/g boost at your RPM desired to break in on the 3rd and final pull. It would be smart to let it cool down in between. But not Ice cold Just let it rest for about 45 mins.

Everyone will have an opinion. Mine is from my small engine rebuild experiences. But I just add that into the mix with other opinions that I feel are correct.


Truth be told If the car is gonna break it's gonna happen within the first 300-800 miles no matter how hard you beat it or how nice you treat it. Granted your tune is correct witch it better be if your beating on it/breaking in your engine.


I won't vote for easy or hard because IMO it's both! Also letting the engine idle is the worst during a break in. **** I would always just turn my idle way down on my race bikes no idle you make it idle with the throttle. Best break in idle ever. Idling engines fouls plug's faster. I hardly let my car idle at stop light's always blip the throttle. Then I pull off slow and steady LOL

Last edited by spoolinsti05; 12-08-2012 at 05:34 PM.
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Old 12-08-2012, 03:44 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbtech View Post
When I worked at Garrett we had many engineers that came from auto manufacturers, most told me the break in most used (in a vehicle) is:
Start vehicle
warm up at 1500-2000 RPM
after oil temperature reached operating temp (about 10 mins after water) shut down
check all fittings connections make sure everything is stout.
after engine cools down about an hour start engine wait for oil temp to reach operating temperature again.
Drive vehicle slowly make sure you have all gears and oil pressure is 100%, and temperatures are good.
Now the break in
Maintain 20-25mph in second gear. Slowly open up throttle to 50% until 55mph is achived(or about 5000rpm)
then let off throttle. (still in second gear)
Let engine braking slow vehicle back down to 20 mph. Repeat 4 times.
Now open up to 75% and 5000 rpm and once again engine brake down to 20mph.(4 times)
Now open throttle to 100% and up until 6000rpm.engine brake once again down to 20 perform this about 6 times.
(some transmission with very short gearing may perform this cycle in third gear)

I have been told after this cycle engine is almost broken in. (depends on ring material) I have run this cycle many times. Works good but I never had any intramentation installed to verify effectivness.
Exactly what I did for my current build which is now at almost 50k. My machine shop has also recomended 300-500 miles of "normal driving".. just to be sure everything is tight and that nothing lets loose, as well as a couple oil changes to remove any metallic debris that results from breakin of new parts. Otherwise, they build race motors and take them out and beat the bejesus out of them fresh outta the shop.. granted they prob tear em down pretty frequently so... Hard Breakin! Seat those rings! I think companies that say easy break in are covering thier own asses so they are not rebuilding blown motors fresh off a build.. when maybe someone who cant recognize a problem (leak, a tap or whatever) arises and instead of making adjustments just continues to beat it til she blows..
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Old 12-08-2012, 05:43 PM   #90
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I break in my motor on regular oil. Start and bring up to temp at 15k. Then turn off and check everything while engine cools completly. Then I drive it on no boost about ten miles. Then I drive it on no more than 12 psi for 500 miles, change oil to synthetic and drive to 1000 miles. Then I do a finish tune. The first ten is the only easy part.
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:24 PM   #91
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I just got done doing my Break in on my new motor, I varied my rpm's and pretty much did a hard break in.

Old motor consumed a lot of oil and was having to add a quart of oil every thousand miles in the end.

I am now at 3k miles and havent had to add oil at all. Car feels much much stronger, will be getting a Re-tune next week to utilize the new build.

Also motor sounds and runs much smoother. Builder had done the initial break in and i believe he took the car to full boost a few time's. Very happy with the build.
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:43 PM   #92
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Since most of this thread has no good info, copy this
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbtech View Post
When I worked at Garrett we had many engineers that came from auto manufacturers, most told me the break in most used (in a vehicle) is:
Start vehicle
warm up at 1500-2000 RPM
after oil temperature reached operating temp (about 10 mins after water) shut down
check all fittings connections make sure everything is stout.
after engine cools down about an hour start engine wait for oil temp to reach operating temperature again.
Drive vehicle slowly make sure you have all gears and oil pressure is 100%, and temperatures are good.
Now the break in
Maintain 20-25mph in second gear. Slowly open up throttle to 50% until 55mph is achived(or about 5000rpm)
then let off throttle. (still in second gear)
Let engine braking slow vehicle back down to 20 mph. Repeat 4 times.
Now open up to 75% and 5000 rpm and once again engine brake down to 20mph.(4 times)
Now open throttle to 100% and up until 6000rpm.engine brake once again down to 20 perform this about 6 times.
(some transmission with very short gearing may perform this cycle in third gear)

I have been told after this cycle engine is almost broken in. (depends on ring material) I have run this cycle many times. Works good but I never had any intramentation installed to verify effectivness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
I'll second this as a good controlled method for engine break in.
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:20 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stoning-volcom View Post
i build engines for customers all over, i reccomend that when you put this fresh newly machined engine into your car put some oil init 10w-40 is what i use cheap stuff, good oil filter. then start it up have a frnd in the car so if something sounds off they can kill it faster then you running to turn the key. but listen!!!!!! for anything look for anything!!!! leaks sounds anything. check coolant levels, oil levels. let it idl for about five min after intial start. then start hit the throttle now when i saw hit the throttle im not saying go drive it. sitting in your drive way with your frnd inside. grab the throttle and hit it, and repeat like a mad man, nothing over 4K. just hit and let go back to idle hit it and as it starts to go back down hit it again. once she has warmed up. and has been warm for ten min and nothing is changed shut her off. go inside and sleep. for about 9 to 12 hours. come back out and there she sets,.... now jack her up and drain the oil. and pull the oil filter. put your desired oil and filter. start her up once the work is done and let idle and hit the throttle here and there to help her warm up. once she is starting to warm up go for a spin, always make sure to have a good flashlight on you, and always be looking for something to go wrong, it may not, but the ones who are not prepared will be the ones in dispair. so just play it cool and smart. driving wise ALWAYS change RPM never stay the same. alot of people will tkae that new motor and go and slam it in cruize at 70 for the next hour of her life. NO change it up always for at least the first 1000 miles. very important key. heck if your going down a street and feel the urge just rev it up , down****, up ****, all this allows the motor to break in. we all have the urge to rape the throttle once we get it on the street and that is fine!!! seriously if the motor was built correct she can handle it, now at the NEW stage the engine CANNOT hanlde it all the time NO REVLIMITER HERE seriously thatll spin a bearing in no time. just hit her up to 6500 , now once she has had a god 500 miles of fun a break in change oil again ( never no if some debris is in there) then drive for the next 500 miles, then change oil again, and then your cycle of changing every 3000-4500 is what you should go ahead and start doing. ALWAYS watch your gauges and check fluid levels for the first couple thousand miles. but yea that is how i always do it,.... no problems yet good luck gents
Why would you want to let a brand new engine idle for 5 minutes with almost no load and low amounts of heat? That does nothing for breaking in the rings.

And then your saying to let the car cool completely cold overnight and then change the oil? No. Because when the oil gets cold all the metals from breakin fall to the bottom of the pan and stay in the pan when you change it. Oil should always be changed hot because the particulates stay on the top of the oil.

The only thing I agree with is to vary conditions and load but the first 20 minutes are the critical minutes and starting out letting it idle for 5 minutes isn't doing anything but giving it a lousy breakin. It should idle no less then 2-3k rpm and depending on cams for at least 20 minutes. When this is done you have a motor with 0 miles and only 20 minutes of running time that has less then 3% leakdown.
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Old 12-09-2012, 07:25 PM   #94
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I dont know if it really helps or not but I always wipe down the sleeves with marvel mystery oil really well. Like spend 5 minutes on each bore. The sleeves look shiny clean and you can easily see the crosshatch marks.

Also I dont lube the rings other than what they pick up of the marvel mystery oil which im sure is a decent amount. With this method oil consumption on the 5/6 motors i have done from what everyone reports is none for each 3k interval.
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Old 12-10-2012, 01:56 AM   #95
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The oil used for break in should have a high zinc content to hold the tiny bits of ferrous metal from the rings/bores in suspension so they can be drained out of the engine at the first and subsequent oil changes. You have to run it hard from the first warm up and get the rings seated before the first oil change. If you run the motor hard rings seat quick and most of the waste material comes out in the first oil change.

Mineral based oils with high zinc include just about any straight weight oil. My preference is Castrol HD30 or HD40 plus a 2-4 ounces of Lucas break-in additive. The combo is cheap, effective and available anywhere. And of course the oil should be drained when it's hot. First oil change should be done after the first 10-50 miles or after some full throttle runs on the dyno.

After that the rest of the oil changes (with mineral based oil) through 1,500 miles are for cleaning. The break-in (ring seating) happened in the first hard running in the first 50 miles. Modern ring material seats quickly so no need to baby it. If you spin a bearing on a new motor that most likely means you had an oil problem or the assembly was not done correctly. Could mean that the tune is detonating too. No other reasons really as the bearings do not change over the useful life of the engine unless they are touched by the crankshaft/rod journals. If that happens on a new motor it's an assembly or oiling issue.

Do not lube the rings with anything special other than the oil that will be used for break-in. Same goes for the bores. You do not want to make the rings or bores super slippery at this point. The new bore finish/hatching is there to "file" down the rings and seat them. The rings seat by knocking down the microscopic peaks on the hatching for a fine fit. If you make the bore more slippery than need be the seating of the rings won't take as quickly. If it does not take place quickly the fit will not be as good. Piston manufactures know this well. There is no need to prolong the break-in, just get it done and over with properly.
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:51 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soobaviator View Post

Mineral based oils with high zinc include just about any straight weight oil. My preference is Castrol HD30 or HD40 plus a 2-4 ounces of Lucas break-in additive. The combo is cheap, effective and available anywhere.
Castrol HD 30 or HD 40 actually aren't high zinc oils, They meet API SM/SN, which limits phosphorus, so the zinc is likely very low.

-Dennis
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Old 12-10-2012, 11:38 AM   #97
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Is shell rottela 15w-40 a good breAk in oil?
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Old 12-10-2012, 12:19 PM   #98
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soobaviator, I never understood this way of thinking of not lubricating bores and rings at assembly because they will not seat.


As soon as you start your engine bores and rings are heavily lubricated anyway so what difference would this one or two strokes without lubrication make?
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Old 12-10-2012, 12:36 PM   #99
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It is more than one or two strokes as it will take quite a few more revolutions than that to prime the oil system fully. Unless you have rigged up a method of priming without cranking...
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Old 12-10-2012, 12:46 PM   #100
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but sleeves are oiled by slosh from the crank so as soon as you start turning(priming or fired up) they are somehow lubricated?
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