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View Poll Results: Built motor break-ins Easy vs. Hard
Easy break-in 68 27.53%
Hard break-in 179 72.47%
Voters: 247. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-10-2012, 01:17 PM   #101
stretchedk7
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im sure on first start up your talking a few seconds before the sleeves are being doused with oil. Point being you dont want the rings completely dry but you also dont want them super wet either. if the sleeves are oiled lightly it will be enough for them to create heat but slide well and the rings will seat fast. within the first 20-50 minutes of run time your doing the majority of ring seat. if you idle the car for 5-10 minutes your not going to ruin anything but its not optimal.

same with the tune being pig rich or super lean. not the best but out of boos t not a huge end of world deal, just need to get afr in check quickly.

By the 10 mile mark my oil has been changed many times and the motor is done with whatever its gonna do. Its been fully boosted and run to redline, as well as heat cycled at least once (complete cool down).

I dont think its wise to fire up the motor and immediately idle it up high unless your sure it already has oil pressure (verify) and you know theres no other issues with tune or engine big or small.

I like the fire up idea and spend first few minutes checking everything. Then after 5 mins of idle time more or less how long it takes me to burp rad and check oil and for leaks and that everything is how it should be. then i change oil. car is cool by the time i restart, i adjust cold start idle and some settings on aem and i go drive.

probably within first 5 miles i get low boost and vacuum fueling done and then i start tuning boost. i start with an afr in the 10.9 range and do wastegate. and then i log, read and lean out, and then do another log and continue that way. so the engine sees boost but in small increments not just 30 psi from the get go.
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:48 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
Castrol HD 30 or HD 40 actually aren't high zinc oils, They meet API SM/SN, which limits phosphorus, so the zinc is likely very low.

-Dennis
Did not mean to imply Castrol HD were high zinc. The combination of HD30/HD40 + Lucas break-in additive makes a high zinc content oil fill suitable for break in. If you are catted 2-4 oz, if no cats 4-8 oz or the whole bottle. You can buy expensive break-in oils like Penn or Amsoil but there is really no need to especially since oil is going to be changed many times.



Quote:
Originally Posted by manys View Post
soobaviator, I never understood this way of thinking of not lubricating bores and rings at assembly because they will not seat.


As soon as you start your engine bores and rings are heavily lubricated anyway so what difference would this one or two strokes without lubrication make?
I did not say don't lubricate the pistons and bores. Of course you have to. What I said was to use the same oil that will be used for the run-in/break-in. That's all. No need to get cute and fancy.

The hatching in the cylinder bore also retains a film of oil. That's another one of the purposes of a proper bore finish. After assembly the bores are most likely never going to be "dry" again unless the motor has sat for a very long time.

You could use T 15W40 because it's cheap I guess. I would not use it for that purpose however. Straight weight oil, Proper assembly, proper tuning, warm it up and let it rip.
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:15 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by project_skyline View Post
Why would you want to let a brand new engine idle for 5 minutes with almost no load and low amounts of heat? That does nothing for breaking in the rings.

And then your saying to let the car cool completely cold overnight and then change the oil? No. Because when the oil gets cold all the metals from breakin fall to the bottom of the pan and stay in the pan when you change it. Oil should always be changed hot because the particulates stay on the top of the oil.
So let me get this cleared up your sayin as soon as you intially start that brand new engine even if it is leaking from something very small your gonna take off and do the breakin? right,.... wel everyone stay away from that dumbass.... as for the cooling that was an exageration? ( i think that is how you spell it w/e) i was saying let it cool down a bit so you can change oil and filter without buring your forearms and or hands so. durp durp
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Old 12-12-2012, 10:56 AM   #104
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OMG if you're a "newbie" who are you to believe with all these opinions, some of which are horrible!

I'm not saying there is only one right way but if you're buying an Element Tuning engine we will provide you with break-in instructions, oil intervals, and oil brand for your engine build and use.

How I break in my race engine on a race car is totally different than what I would have a customer with a street driven motor do. The two engine builds are different and have different requirements for break-in including oil type.
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Old 12-12-2012, 11:17 AM   #105
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Something something don't post before coffee

Last edited by aboothman; 12-13-2012 at 01:24 AM.
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Old 12-12-2012, 12:24 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by aboothman View Post
Soooo you are going to cast doubt on everything in this thread but offer no actual suggestions? That is unless we buy one of your engines....hmm
Don't be a conspiracist I thought I posted already but it must have been in one of the other hundred break-in threads

This what I want my customers to do with our engines for use on a street legal car.

Element Tuning Engine break-in instructions:

- Before starting the engine you must fill with oil, water/antifreeze, and build oil pressure. We recommend for the 1st 500 miles Shell Rotella 15w40 non synthetic oil.

- To build oil pressure disconnect the crank angle sensor (this prevents the engine from starting or fuel from entering the engine). Crank in 10 second intervals until the OEM oil pressure light goes out.

- For the first engine start check for leaks, bleed the cooling system with heat on full high, tune the air fuel ratios lean enough to prevent cylinder washing, and keep engine RPM above 1500 rpm to break-in new cams for about 15-20 minutes.

- For the second engine start adjust tuning as required and immediately run the engine (drive the car if not using engine dyno) and boost 5-6 psi in short intervals. This is critical for the rings to seat properly. Do this for about 10 minutes and the rings should be seated.

- For additional starts or driving limit boost to 10 psi and RPM to under 5000. Vary load and rpm within these limits to ensure a good engine break-in. Check your oil level frequently and check your coolant level.

- At 300-500 miles change the oil filter with a genuine Subaru filter or better and change the oil. You can go to synthetic at 500 miles or you can wait until 1000 miles.

- Continue limiting boost to 10 psi and RPM to 5000 until 1000 miles is reached.

- Change the oil and filter again at 1000 miles and start running full synthetic oil. The engine may now be fully tuned above 10 psi and 5000 rpm.

-Recommended oil for the 1st 1000 Miles. Shell Rotella non-synthetic 10w30 for sub 50F and above 15w40.

-Recommended oil after 1000 Miles. Mobil 1 Extended Performance synthetic or better (Redline/Amsoil) 10w30 for sub 50F and above (or track) 15w50.

End.

Race Car and Race Engine:

Now for my race car we don't have the luxury of being able to run a proper break in procedure and the engine does suffer because of it. Right off the bat we have to build this motor differently and shave a good 10-15k miles of life off the motor in terms of clearances. We also cannot run a non-synthetic oil as it has shown to coke in the motor. Because of this we have to be very careful on the type of oil we run during the engine break-in. If you get it wrong the ring face will polish and the engine will be ruined and I have first hand experience with this. We have found that under racing conditions we can get the rings to seat with Mobil 1 15w50 and this oil will survive the temps seen in racing conditions.

The lowest power my race engine makes is something like 475 whp so I run that and I limit my RPM to 7k RPM for practice and the first race session. After that I'm all in but I run the Mobil 1 for 2 races before switching to a high end racing oil with more add pack.

How your engine is built is what should determine how you break the engine in. For our engines follow our advice as it tested, tried, and true.
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Old 12-12-2012, 01:26 PM   #107
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I should add to that, some piston rings require longer running before switching to a high end synthetic due to the thicker ring design. We handle this on a customer per customer basis.
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Old 12-12-2012, 01:47 PM   #108
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Be like Nike Just do it! No matter what you do if it isn't built right it's gonna have an issue!

Heat cycle I mentioned is to just tend to the ring's. Good luck fellas.
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:57 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stoning-volcom View Post
So let me get this cleared up your sayin as soon as you intially start that brand new engine even if it is leaking from something very small your gonna take off and do the breakin? right,.... wel everyone stay away from that dumbass.... as for the cooling that was an exageration? ( i think that is how you spell it w/e) i was saying let it cool down a bit so you can change oil and filter without buring your forearms and or hands so. durp durp
Well technically I'm going no where. I also don't start up and break in a motor by myself. Ya if its leaking we shut it down, address the problem and move on. The car isn't started and instantly taken to 2000-3000rpm but I doesn't sit for 5 minutes because it takes about 1 minute to see leaks if you know what your looking for.

I highly doubt you build "tons" of motors for people around the globe, you can hardly spell or write a readable bulletin of information. Not to mention advise running cheap oils with low amounts of zinc or phosphorous, a filter with low levels of filtration, and a general oil viscosity that should be suggested based on bearing clearances. Don't forget proper cam break-in besides not everyone runs stock cams in built motors.
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:07 AM   #110
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i was always told to keep rpm low with new cams. how does that mix with this hard running business of a new bottom end break-in as well?
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:23 AM   #111
aboothman
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Originally Posted by Element Tuning View Post

Don't be a conspiracist I thought I posted already but it must have been in one of the other hundred break-in threads
Just a little good natured, pre-coffee baiting thanks for reposting...I knew we could count on you!!

Last edited by aboothman; 12-13-2012 at 01:44 AM.
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Old 12-16-2012, 12:09 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by vicious_fishes View Post
i was always told to keep rpm low with new cams. how does that mix with this hard running business of a new bottom end break-in as well?
New cams are supposed to have raised rpm levels for the first few minutes of their life.

And the hard break in thing doesn't create any issues as long as you have oil pressure and a decent tune.
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Old 12-16-2012, 12:29 PM   #113
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How do you do a hard break in if you just changed everything when you built your motor. Like injectors, turbo, headers and stuff.
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Old 12-16-2012, 01:03 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by wantsti View Post
How do you do a hard break in if you just changed everything when you built your motor. Like injectors, turbo, headers and stuff.
I tune as I drive. Once the tune is right I go wot and make logs. Then I use the logs to fine tune.
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Old 12-16-2012, 01:44 PM   #115
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Sorry, i may have missed out on this, but specifically is there a mileage to abide to? Hard break in it is, but for how long? After 100 miles? 1000?
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Old 12-16-2012, 01:49 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by jacky599r View Post
Sorry, i may have missed out on this, but specifically is there a mileage to abide to? Hard break in it is, but for how long? After 100 miles? 1000?
There's so many different opinions. Some ppl like the easy break I'm some the hard. For me, I make sure the motor is sound and has no leaks and then I change the oil and go drive. This works for me and I end up with no oil consumption. However boost hasn't been over 30 psi on any o my setups yet so as boost goes up consumption might.
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Old 12-28-2012, 07:14 PM   #117
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its so funny, I can post something that actually makes sense and works. but NO one believes it.. it doesnt matter if you have built engines, trannies or heck built an entire car from nothing. they will not believe you cause everyone on any forum is smarter than everyone. and if they have stupid frnds to believe that then yes they win lol stupidity is an illusion of hipocrisy
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Old 12-28-2012, 08:44 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by stoning-volcom View Post
its so funny, I can post something that actually makes sense and works. but NO one believes it.. it doesnt matter if you have built engines, trannies or heck built an entire car from nothing. they will not believe you cause everyone on any forum is smarter than everyone. and if they have stupid frnds to believe that then yes they win lol stupidity is an illusion of hipocrisy
Well to keep me from scrolling up on my phone post your methods. Pls and thx
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Old 12-30-2012, 05:57 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stoning-volcom View Post
So let me get this cleared up your sayin as soon as you intially start that brand new engine even if it is leaking from something very small your gonna take off and do the breakin? right,.... wel everyone stay away from that dumbass.... as for the cooling that was an exageration? ( i think that is how you spell it w/e) i was saying let it cool down a bit so you can change oil and filter without buring your forearms and or hands so. durp durp
If you do it right it shouldn't be leaking anything, all you have to do is bleed the power steering, and if you fill the coolant with a vacuum filler you don't have to bleed it either. With the correct basemap you can load it up on the dyno immediately after the initial oil change and get to seating the rings and tuning. It's not rocket science. If its a hacked together garage build by someone with little experience then that's another story.
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Old 01-12-2013, 07:43 PM   #120
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wow,.... just cause you take your time and do everything that is RECOMENDED by the company you purchase the PERFORMANCE part from does not mean it is RIGHT,.... and yes i will double,... if not tripple check EVERYTHING. Its called being safe,... not sorry. and for most people when they build a car they do not want to put almost 1 grand in the bottum end and then just start it up and think " well i did everything i was told to do, and i did torque everything to spec." and then you take it to your DYNO/tuner and then BOOM! who feels dumb now, like i just dont understand the reasoning on this. It is dumb and inmature, and VERY unprofessional. For me whether it is on my own wifes car or my own, I will always double and tripple check parts and spec on them. You could buy a set of eagle forged rods that are apparently Perfect or close to what you need. But unless you measure and check these/those things, you WILL NOT no how things are down bellow with out taking the time to make sure it is all good. Initial start up is CRITICAL yes but having oil and coolant not leaking is even more crucial cause without these fluids these motors will NOT last, Especially if the first time you start it you thought that you put the oil feed to the turbo or something tight enough but you didnt double check it. then you start it and load a tune in for the setup and start going then boom. Like come on man.

W/e i no nothing lol imma newbie to da scooby
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Old 01-13-2013, 01:49 AM   #121
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So, I have a friend who has a ej22T shortblock and s20 wrx heads with 1+mm valves and kelford 199-c cams I believe. He rebuilt the heads and the block himself and is about to get a base break in map from Cobb. He is going to be pushing a little over 400 he believes at the crank once tuned.

I really want to talk to him about break in, and the other thing is that he said that cobb recommended him use castrol syntec 5w30 after break in and I was like..... no you need at least a 40w at operating temp to protect your motor so my recommendation was a 5w40 of some sorts.

So, what do you guys think my friend should do? I have an NA engine being rebuilt for my car but going with the hard break in once it is in the car.

My vote is hard break in
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Old 01-27-2013, 12:19 PM   #122
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My new built motor is right back on the bench for the next two weeks or so with a possible rod/bearing issue. Only made it to just under 1700 miles following Cobb's break-in method. I'm considering a harder break-in this time.
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Old 01-27-2013, 12:32 PM   #123
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My new built motor is right back on the bench for the next two weeks or so with a possible rod/bearing issue. Only made it to just under 1700 miles following Cobb's break-in method. I'm considering a harder break-in this time.
Nothing to do with the break in method. That's an assembly issue.
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Old 01-27-2013, 03:17 PM   #124
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Right, thats either an assembly related issue or simply built to a bad blueprint. Sorry to hear that happened but make sure you know what caused this before rebuilding otherwise you'll just ruin another crank, rods, or worse.
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Old 01-27-2013, 05:49 PM   #125
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^^Exactly right
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