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View Poll Results: Built motor break-ins Easy vs. Hard
Easy break-in 68 27.53%
Hard break-in 179 72.47%
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Old 01-27-2013, 07:01 PM   #126
8195229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WheredUgo? View Post
Just FYI that's not really how piston ring seal occurs. Its got allot more to do with heat cycles and friction.
Well, they do expand and press against the cylinder walls under load. But heat expansion also plays a part.

Reason why some people want to drive hard during break-in is cause they want the piston rings to expand (under load and boost) and create better contact (removing the peaks and valleys) with the cylinder walls.
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Old 01-27-2013, 07:04 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Csquared33 View Post
Nothing to do with the break in method. That's an assembly issue.
I agree, but I'm not in the mood to go through the break-in process again lol. Now I just need to decide how hard to take it. I want to get at least 30k out of her if I can.
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Old 01-31-2013, 10:32 AM   #128
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Thanks Phil for posting some great information there.

My break in procedure depends on the engine. If you're working with a engine program that has enough strength and integrity to keep shape well than the break in period is shorter than a alloy engine that is going to be more dynamic during service.

For those of you that are old enough to have owned old crappy cars you know it's hard to break a old engine. Hell, go on youtube and watch some videos of people trying to break old engines... The familiarization period that a engine goes through during break in can be critical in it's life span. There is no shortage of low mileage failure on this board, and a percentage of that can be avoided with proper break in. If I'm working on a 2jz I little reservations about going right on the dyno and making power, some of the domestic engines I tune never make less than 900whp from the first hit.

It's critical that the engine is clean clean clean during assembly. It's critical that as a assembler you're checking clearences and at a minimum following the FSM. It's not critical that you take it out and beat on it right away. The only thing I'd change about Phil's advice is I take the spark plugs out during priming so the assembly lube isn't wiped during cranking from compression. DON'T let the enigne idle, Run it for 15-20 minutes at 1500-2000rpm, drain that oil out, cut the filter oil and inspect. Refill oil and go drive the car like a normal person would for a thousand miles.

I'm not going to negate the fact that ring seal can be effected by not having the "mototune" style break in. Again I run a far share of race engines in this way. I'm just saying the as the average DIY home builder or weekend warrior having the engine live a reasonable service life should be more of a priority than the potential of a few more HP.

Thanks.

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Old 01-31-2013, 12:47 PM   #129
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yeah id like to make a system where i can use compressed air to pressurice oiling system before i hit the key on new motors ^. someone had a keg turned into oiling tool on here somewhere.

idk much about what the best way would be (what ports would be best) but i really think the idea is good.
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Old 01-31-2013, 12:52 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stretchedk7 View Post
yeah id like to make a system where i can use compressed air to pressurice oiling system before i hit the key on new motors ^. someone had a keg turned into oiling tool on here somewhere.

idk much about what the best way would be (what ports would be best) but i really think the idea is good.
Old school guys call it a "pig". Basically you can hook up a 3qt accumulator to the port near the alternator and release the pressure, or the galley plug at the back.
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Old 01-31-2013, 12:53 PM   #131
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As realstreet said. Stuff like 2js and big v8s. Once around the shop parking lot, check for leaks, and right onto the dyno.
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Old 01-31-2013, 01:34 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by stretchedk7 View Post
yeah id like to make a system where i can use compressed air to pressurice oiling system before i hit the key on new motors ^. someone had a keg turned into oiling tool on here somewhere.

idk much about what the best way would be (what ports would be best) but i really think the idea is good.
We pack the oil pumps on our builds so oil pressure builds really fast. It's a must if you are running an aftermarket pickup tube. Now on my dry sump setup we do pressurize the dry sump tank which forces oil into the pump.
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Old 01-31-2013, 02:04 PM   #133
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My builder/tuner break in:
*Built 2.5 w/ 20g*
Boost set @ 18psi and conservative tune to start.

Drive 500 miles under 5000-5500 rpm. Drive in as many varying conditions as possible: up and down hills (mountains in colorado are great for this), slow pulls up hill and down hill engine breaks, as well drive regular city driving and harder pulls from time to time (ie. light to light).... try not to just drive highway.

Bring car in for final tune... then drive the poop out of that beeeatch.

Not saying this is the best or good, and only 10,000 miles so far... but still kicking up dust.
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Old 01-31-2013, 02:28 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Element Tuning View Post
We pack the oil pumps on our builds so oil pressure builds really fast. It's a must if you are running an aftermarket pickup tube. Now on my dry sump setup we do pressurize the dry sump tank which forces oil into the pump.

well fill me in some more!! i have been just pulling fuel pump fuse and making sure battery is fully charged. a few starts without fuel. pop in fuse and fire it off.

would like a better way.
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Old 01-31-2013, 02:30 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Csquared33 View Post
Old school guys call it a "pig". Basically you can hook up a 3qt accumulator to the port near the alternator and release the pressure, or the galley plug at the back.



well thanks for the info. trying to learn new ways of pre lubing.

so galley plug at back (as in top of block) or the front port. thx
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Old 01-31-2013, 02:32 PM   #136
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i have heard of packing the pump with something thick like assembly lube and have heard someone say vaseline or protroleum jelly (spelling) but that seems thick as hell.

i at least fill oil filter install it and then add about 5 qts to motor. i use a decent amount of assembly lube on cam lobes crank rods and all bearings but still.
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Old 01-31-2013, 03:43 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by stretchedk7 View Post
i have heard of packing the pump with something thick like assembly lube and have heard someone say vaseline or protroleum jelly (spelling) but that seems thick as hell.

i at least fill oil filter install it and then add about 5 qts to motor. i use a decent amount of assembly lube on cam lobes crank rods and all bearings but still.
Yeah it just creates more suction since this style of pump isn't good at sucking air. Put a big pickup tube in there and you'll be cranking (even with plugs out) forever.

Oh and it's easier just to pull the crank angle sensor as a Subaru won't start or fuel the engine when that's disconnected.

The reason we sometimes have to pressurize the dry sump tank is that the oil pump can air lock so to speak. We typically crack the oil line from the dry sump tank to the pan fitting to make sure air is pushed out and most of the time it will pull oil in fast with a packed pump. Without a packed up, it's best to add a little pressure to the tank. Our dry sump kits are shipped with plastic caps for the AN tank fittings, etc. and you simply punch your blow gun tip through the cap (all other ports blocked off) and add a small amount of pressure.

Last edited by Element Tuning; 01-31-2013 at 03:49 PM.
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Old 01-31-2013, 05:38 PM   #138
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oh ok and thanks alot for the tip on crankk angle sensor. I run a killer b pickup and usually dont remove plugs on first startup so i guess i need to tighten up my methods!

if anyone has a way i can make a tool or pressurize my system using my air compressor (pressure adjustable) lmk! cant find the keg thread. would like to make something so that i dont have to remove plugs and hope its good!

Element, you sell your kits to the public!? if so i wasnt aware of this. do they come with everything?
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Old 02-01-2013, 01:29 AM   #139
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Was it my invention you were remembering?


From my build thread:http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...1792564&page=6

Quote:
My soda keg I will be using to pressure feed the motor with oil. You just dump in the oil, add a little compressed air through the air valve, and open the ball valve to allow the pressurized oil too flow out. This will also work awesome for filling a rear diff since you won't have to try and squeeze it out of a bottle. Instead you can just dump your desired fluid into the soda keg and pressure feed it right into the diff!




I removed the oil pressure switch that's used for the idiot light and threaded in this extension. It will normally be plugged and when I want to pressure feed I will remove the plug and thread in a nipple. This will be so nice, and will give me the piece of mind knowing that oil is being forced through the whole motor and turbo before I even turn it over. No more cranking it over and over just to get a couple pounds of pressure. The soda keg is rated to hold over 200 psi so I can feed the motor at whatever pressure I want. I will prbably do it at 30 to 40 psi.


When I first fired the motor, my oil pump was packed with assembly lube, I filled the oil filter and screwed it on, then pumped all the oil from the keg through the motor, checked level on dip stick, pulled crank sensor plug, cranked motor over (plugs installed) for two chirps and the "idiot light" went out. I then felt good about firing it up! Overkill? Probably, but I wasn't leaving anything to chance

Total cost to build the "Soda Keg Oil Pressure Feed System" was <$50. An invaluable shop tool!
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Old 02-01-2013, 07:23 AM   #140
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YES!! that's what I was after. Thanks a ton for posting that up. I'm saving this now. I think this is a great idea and seems to me that filling oil filter and then doing this is spot on

Thanks a ton for posting.
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Old 02-01-2013, 07:25 AM   #141
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Now to find one and try and build my own. You did really good by only spending 50$.

I saw last night in line companies make them using what looks like an old propane bottle.

Company called melling. They start at 200$
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Old 02-01-2013, 09:04 AM   #142
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http://www.moroso.com/catalog/catego...?catcode=13600

I've got the Moroso one, it works well for me.

Thanks

Jay Meagher
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Old 02-01-2013, 09:53 AM   #143
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thanks for the info. im checking that one out now
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Old 02-01-2013, 10:31 AM   #144
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Use something w zync in it as far as oil for break in. Just load the cyl. On and off the gas. Freeway is fine. Couple hundred miles or less. Loading the cyl w seat the rings. Do the normal quick oil change to get the assembly lube and small crap out from all the new parts getting worked in
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Old 02-01-2013, 10:33 AM   #145
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I still like this answer tho. Micah also agrees
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbtech View Post
When I worked at Garrett we had many engineers that came from auto manufacturers, most told me the break in most used (in a vehicle) is:
Start vehicle
warm up at 1500-2000 RPM
after oil temperature reached operating temp (about 10 mins after water) shut down
check all fittings connections make sure everything is stout.
after engine cools down about an hour start engine wait for oil temp to reach operating temperature again.
Drive vehicle slowly make sure you have all gears and oil pressure is 100%, and temperatures are good.
Now the break in
Maintain 20-25mph in second gear. Slowly open up throttle to 50% until 55mph is achived(or about 5000rpm)
then let off throttle. (still in second gear)
Let engine braking slow vehicle back down to 20 mph. Repeat 4 times.
Now open up to 75% and 5000 rpm and once again engine brake down to 20mph.(4 times)
Now open throttle to 100% and up until 6000rpm.engine brake once again down to 20 perform this about 6 times.
(some transmission with very short gearing may perform this cycle in third gear)

I have been told after this cycle engine is almost broken in. (depends on ring material) I have run this cycle many times. Works good but I never had any intramentation installed to verify effectivness.
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Old 02-01-2013, 02:34 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irv Weissmanhowerton View Post
Use something w zync in it as far as oil for break in. Just load the cyl. On and off the gas. Freeway is fine. Couple hundred miles or less. Loading the cyl w seat the rings. Do the normal quick oil change to get the assembly lube and small crap out from all the new parts getting worked in

Mountain roads or surface streets would be way better than the freeway for break in. How much engine braking or rpm variation can you get at 70 mph? Constant rpm is the devil.

Last edited by kellygnsd; 02-01-2013 at 03:11 PM.
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Old 02-01-2013, 04:15 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by kellygnsd View Post

Mountain roads or surface streets would be way better than the freeway for break in. How much engine braking or rpm variation can you get at 70 mph? Constant rpm is the devil.
I think u can use highways for break-in, just try not to use the break pedal, instead just engine break. To do this u have to see/observe whats going on two-three cars ahead of u
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Old 02-01-2013, 04:58 PM   #148
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I'm sure you could on a barren stretch of highway in BFE where you could screw up the flow of traffic with your constant accelerating and engine braking but that will get you shot in Socal(or ran over).

You and I probably have different views on the acceptable levels of engine braking too but to each his own. I prefer long decel periods that generate max vacuum to help clear the wear particles after load runs. I personally don't feel its safe to do constant 6000-2000 rpm decels on the freeway and still be somewhat considerate of other drivers on the road.
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Old 02-03-2013, 01:23 PM   #149
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Just got a Cosworth Short Block. Was told to break in in below 5K RPMs and zero boost for 500 miles. After that I can tune for whatever and be on my way.

Seeing as there is a plethora of ways to do this... by driving the car on a base map ECU flash for 500 miles with no boost with new forged everything; is this an "ok" way to do it. Why or why not?
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Old 02-04-2013, 08:22 AM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kapp_badbloodz View Post
Just got a Cosworth Short Block. Was told to break in in below 5K RPMs and zero boost for 500 miles. After that I can tune for whatever and be on my way.

Seeing as there is a plethora of ways to do this... by driving the car on a base map ECU flash for 500 miles with no boost with new forged everything; is this an "ok" way to do it. Why or why not?
I am starting up my new forged block here in a few days and I will be following the method outlined by mbtech above. It makes sense to drive it hard and I don't want to risk the rings not sealing and having oil consumption.
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