Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Saturday May 30, 2015
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Normally Aspirated Powertrain

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-28-2010, 10:27 PM   #1
geronimo81
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 154586
Join Date: Jul 2007
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: San Ramon
Vehicle:
1996 Turbo Outback
9psi on 91 No EM

Default Fuel Pouring Out My Tailpipe

It's a 2000 RS and I bought it with a bad motor. I just put a new motor in and re-used the manifold from the original. In the process of removing the manifold from the old motor an injector was damaged (the tip broke). I got a used injector to replace it.

Now everything is back together and upon getting it to start it won't run well and fuel was pouring out the tailpipe. I plan on first checking the coil to see if it's good, then pulling the odd injector and trying to swap the tip from that one onto the old one that was damaged.

Does anybody have any other suggestions? I have never tried to swap the tips before, is there a technique that will keep me from fubarring the whole thing? Thanks
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
geronimo81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 08-28-2010, 10:35 PM   #2
Drew12
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 218453
Join Date: Jul 2009
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Mission Viejo, Ca
Vehicle:
2009 WRX
Dark Grey Metalic

Cool

This is not good.
Reminds me of a friend that used a lighter to look in his gas filler.
lost all his hair.......
Drew12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2010, 11:24 AM   #3
yarrgh
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 80465
Join Date: Jan 2005
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Aurora, CO
Vehicle:
2001 2.5RS
Black Diamond Pearl

Default

Check/change your oil when this is all said and done, gas makes a poor lubricant.
yarrgh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2010, 12:43 AM   #4
geronimo81
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 154586
Join Date: Jul 2007
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: San Ramon
Vehicle:
1996 Turbo Outback
9psi on 91 No EM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by yarrgh View Post
Check/change your oil when this is all said and done, gas makes a poor lubricant.
Yeah, thanks for reminding me. There goes 4.3 quarts of synthetic. Oh well. Still need to search on how to swap injector tips without breaking them. I will keep you guys posted as this progresses.
geronimo81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2010, 12:48 AM   #5
BlueBullit02
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 245062
Join Date: Apr 2010
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Vehicle:
2002 WRX 303awhp
WRB

Default

Get them flow tested!
BlueBullit02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2010, 01:22 AM   #6
geronimo81
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 154586
Join Date: Jul 2007
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: San Ramon
Vehicle:
1996 Turbo Outback
9psi on 91 No EM

Default

Okay people this will be a long post explaining the diagnosis I did tonight with my friend Paul.

1. checked the coil to make sure it was providing spark to all 4 cylinders

2. checked spark plugs/wires

3. checked the resistance of each injector (all showed 14.5 ohms)

4. unplugged 1 injector at a time and cranked the motor/started it with starter fluid. It ran the same each time (on one or 2 cylinders)

5. pulled the spark plugs to see which cylinder was getting too much fuel. (Lots of fuel was coming out the tailpipe again. Enough to make a good sized puddle and spray a large sheet of cardboard until it was pretty wet.)

6. Upon pulling the spark plugs we found both drivers side to be dry. However both passenger side were wet.

7. We swapped the injectors to see if it would make a difference but the results were the same. The passenger side plugs were wet.

8. We gave up for the night as we were getting sick from gas fumes and could not think of anything else to do.

Okay, so does anybody know of a possible cause of excess fueling to the passenger side of the manifold? Some possible ideas we had was that I had somehow screwed up some wiring while swapping the manifold from the old motor to the new. Is it possible that I swapped two of the fuel hoses that connect to the fuel rails on the driver's side? (I highly doubt this one since I connected the hose from the fuel filter to the top fuel rail and that is how it is on my other two subarus.

Thanks in advance!
geronimo81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2010, 08:54 PM   #7
geronimo81
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 154586
Join Date: Jul 2007
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: San Ramon
Vehicle:
1996 Turbo Outback
9psi on 91 No EM

Default

Wow, I can hear the silence. Nobody has any ideas?

Yesterday I spent some more time trying to fix the problem.

1. I learned that there is supposed to be a ground from the passenger side manifold to the body which was missing when I got the car. I made a new ground out of 6 awg wire and still no change.

2. A mechanic friend suggested that the ecu grounds the injectors in order to open them so it is possible that a wire the two passenger side injectors share is shorting to ground. I haven't dug very deep into this one yet but studied a wiring diagram last night. Will start looking into this one tonight. If it isn't in the wiring harness, then it may be the ecu (I'm not ready for that).

We did test each injector for power and ground when the key was off and on. They all tested the same.

3. I borrowed a code scanner from a friend and he suggested that if my coolant temp sensor was unplugged it would flood the engine while trying to cold start. Turns out the sensor was unplugged so I found it and plugged it back in. The problem did not get better and may have even gotten worse? Oh yeah and there were no codes thrown after cranking it several times.

4. When turning the key to the on position you can hear the injectors are squirting on the passenger side. This happens whether or not the injectors are plugged in or not. I found that with the cam and crank sensors unplugged the injectors are closed and will not flood the engine although the initial squirting sound when the fuel pump cycles can still be heard. It seems that they just close when cranking begins.

5. I swapped the map sensor without a change.

So I got the motor from a friend (a real friend not just an aquaintance). He pulled the motor from a running 2001 Outback that he was parting out. He shipped the motor to me on a pallet with the timing belt on it. He shipped it without the front timing covers and I never checked the timing. I will re-time it tonight just to eliminate the possibility that is the problem.

Wish me luck, If I don't fix it tonight I will have to start pouring gas into the tank because it is getting low. I don't want to have to watch it come back out the tailpipe. I will take a picture of just how bad it is tonight if it continues.
geronimo81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2010, 10:26 PM   #8
gaber
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 256593
Join Date: Sep 2010
Default

Make sure you get some fuel out of your base before you start. You don't want an explosion. Recheck all of your wire connections. Maybe your fuel pump is running all the time with a direct feed or something.

Good luck!
Gabe
gaber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2010, 10:55 PM   #9
yarrgh
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 80465
Join Date: Jan 2005
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Aurora, CO
Vehicle:
2001 2.5RS
Black Diamond Pearl

Default

It sure sounds like something faulty in the injectors. Not so much timing or unrelated sensors. Check the injector wiring very carefully.
yarrgh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2010, 08:13 PM   #10
geronimo81
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 154586
Join Date: Jul 2007
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: San Ramon
Vehicle:
1996 Turbo Outback
9psi on 91 No EM

Default

So upon closer inspection my timing set is very worn. The tensioner is garbage and a couple of the idlers are very noisy. One even has lateral movement because it is so worn! I ordered all new parts and they will probably be here in the middle of next week.

I think I also may have found the problem with the fuel. My friend who helped me put the motor back in hooked up the throttle. He was not the one who unhooked it so he never saw how it was. When he hooked it up he saw the part that has no threads so that it can slip into the yoke and slipped it in but then he asked me about adjustment and I thought that he had understood how to do it so I didn't even look at it. Turns out he just adjusted it so that the throttle was 75% open all of the time. My fault for not looking at it with him when he asked me.

All in all it was a blessing because I wouldn't have looked at the timing stuff as closely and the motor could have been ruined in a very short amount of time. I guess I will find out if this solved the problem when I get the timing stuff.
geronimo81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2010, 10:50 PM   #11
geronimo81
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 154586
Join Date: Jul 2007
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: San Ramon
Vehicle:
1996 Turbo Outback
9psi on 91 No EM

Default

Today I put in the new water pump/tensioner/idlers/timing belt/seals and put everything back together. The throttle was adjusted and it started up and ran better than before.......but was still pouring fuel out the tailpipe.

I dropped the oil/gas that was in the motor and it was nasty and thin. I didn't want to do this until I fixed the fuel issue but in the interest of saving the bearings I put in some Supertech oil from Wally World. I was interested to see that it is API certified. Who would've thunk it.

The funniest part of today was when I pulled the Borla cat-back and when it finally pulled free my leg got soaked with gasoline that came gushing out of the muffler. I then proceeded to pour the remainder out which turned out to be quite a lot.

Before I let the car sit I pulled the plugs, unplugged the injectors and cranked it over. Fuel came flying out of the passenger side of course but this will prevent any more gas leaking down past the rings while it sits.

Next step is to pull the manifold and inspect the wiring harness thoroughly. I think it is a problem with the common wire between the passenger side injectors before all four injector power wires merge into 1.

I will tear into this on Monday so wish me luck.
geronimo81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2010, 11:49 PM   #12
razrielle
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 205698
Join Date: Mar 2009
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Wichita, KS
Default

Good luck man, hopefully it works out for you in the end, thats just crazy what your going through
razrielle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2010, 06:15 PM   #13
rexburg22re
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 257609
Join Date: Sep 2010
Default


Last edited by rexburg22re; 09-17-2010 at 01:42 AM.
rexburg22re is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2010, 06:57 PM   #14
rexburg22re
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 257609
Join Date: Sep 2010
Lightbulb

While we're testing the signal to the injectors, we should just pull the fuel pump relay. I don't think that will effect the signal to the injectors and it will certainly help prevent that passenger side from filling with fuel. Yes
rexburg22re is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2010, 12:48 AM   #15
rexburg22re
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 257609
Join Date: Sep 2010
Default

checked injectors with noid light, flashes the same for all 4.
we did find some issues with the fuse block in the engine bay, though it doesn't seem that any of those fuses/relays have anything to do with engine performance.
rexburg22re is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2010, 01:07 AM   #16
williaty
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 71092
Join Date: Sep 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Delaware County, Ohio
Vehicle:
2005 2.5RS Wagon
Regal Blue Pearl

Default

OK, assuming that I've understood all your posts correctly, you've verified that you're getting an electrical pulse to both right side spark plugs and an electrical pulse to both right side injectors. If you're getting fuel and fire but you're not getting that which you desire, there's a fair chance the fuel coming out the tail pipe isn't due to too much fuel on the right side, it's due to the right side not lighting up.

1)Pull the exhaust header off, start the car. Look for flame. I give it 50-50 odds that you'll see fuel, not flame, coming out of the right head's exhaust ports.

2)Run a compression test. I give it 50-50 odds that you'll see 0 compression on the right hand side. Fuel and spark, properly timed, won't light up if the compression is low.
williaty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2010, 12:46 AM   #17
geronimo81
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 154586
Join Date: Jul 2007
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: San Ramon
Vehicle:
1996 Turbo Outback
9psi on 91 No EM

Default

Well we did a compression check tonight and each cylinder came out about 125-130. I am glad to have ruled that out. When we did the compression test we unplugged the cam sensor. It was obvious that no new fuel was entering the drivers side cylinders but the passenger side cylinders were still getting fuel. I had to dump fuel out of the hose for the tester (no fuel got into the gauge though). Using the NOID light last night revealed that when the cam sensor was not plugged in the injectors were not receiving a signal to open. so how is it that fuel is getting through the injectors? Remember that when we swapped the injectors from side to side the passenger side is the only side that floods.

We then swapped the fpr with a used one I had on a spare manifold to no avail. The car won't start at all even though it started and ran (albeit roughly) a couple of times on Saturday when I first got everything back together again.

New spark plugs were put in last night and I noticed that even though we had cranked the car over several times trying to start it (everything was plugged in) there was no sign of ignition on any of them. In fact there was unburned fuel on all of them though not much on the drivers side. How soon should there be some evidence of ignition on the spark plugs?

It looks like I may end up having to pull the manifold. I disassembled the whole thing when I swapped blocks in order to paint it. I am now paranoid that I did something wrong when putting it back on. Maybe one of the hard lines got pinched and I just can't see it while still in the car. (I can barely see the pretty red manifold because of all the crap on top)
geronimo81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2010, 12:49 AM   #18
williaty
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 71092
Join Date: Sep 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Delaware County, Ohio
Vehicle:
2005 2.5RS Wagon
Regal Blue Pearl

Default

Good to see that your compression is ok, that rules out a whole slew of things that could be wrong.

Did you have the throttle fully down to 100% while running the compression check? 100% throttle plus cranking is a signal to the ECU to shut off the injectors. If you were still getting fuel, at all, under those conditions, then you have an electrical problem in your wiring harness and/or ECU or the ECU and wiring harness are incompatible (possible, since they're from different years).
williaty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2010, 02:42 AM   #19
rexburg22re
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 257609
Join Date: Sep 2010
Default

wot on compression test, though not for the fact that it would shut off the injectors. I've always been taught to do that so it doesn't mess with the compression readings by having the TB factor in. Something I did notice, and we'll have to double check with another gauge, is that pressure dropped back down to 0 within about 10 seconds on all 4 cylinders. I could hear air leaking at the quick release fitting so it may have just been that. Also, initial jump on the gauge only showed 30-50psi, isn't it supposed to be at least half of final compression reading? Wouldn't the fuel also play into the compression reading almost acting like a wet compression check? Thanks for the help Williaty!!!
rexburg22re is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2010, 02:50 AM   #20
williaty
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 71092
Join Date: Sep 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Delaware County, Ohio
Vehicle:
2005 2.5RS Wagon
Regal Blue Pearl

Default

I doubt the fuel is viscous enough to affect the compression test, but weirder things happen.

If you had the throttle open, cranking, and fuel was still flooding the right hand side, something is wired wrong, no doubt about it.
williaty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2010, 08:05 PM   #21
geronimo81
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 154586
Join Date: Jul 2007
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: San Ramon
Vehicle:
1996 Turbo Outback
9psi on 91 No EM

Default

Okay, so I was thinking about the fuel setup on the car and have a few questions. As I understand it the fuel first goes to the drivers side and then to the passengers side. It terminates at the fuel pressure regulator that then can pass any excess fuel through the return line.

Important points:

* The fuel is still getting through the injectors even when they are unplugged.....so no electrical signal.
* Still only happens on pass side when injectors are swapped side to side.

1. If the fuel pump is putting out too much pressure can it force fuel through the injectors?
- If so then it stands to reason that the injectors that receive fuel last will be the first to experience the higher fuel pressure.
- It also would stand to reason that If the excess fuel pressure was able to overcome the injector's even though they are not "open" it would only flood those cylinders closest to the blockage right?

I think I will do a fuel pressure test. Does anyone know what the fuel pressure should be? I will do a search

P.S. The electrical is all original. None of it was changed in the swap, only removed and then re-installed
geronimo81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2010, 12:57 AM   #22
geronimo81
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 154586
Join Date: Jul 2007
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: San Ramon
Vehicle:
1996 Turbo Outback
9psi on 91 No EM

Default

Pulled the ecu tonight... right at the connector there are a few suspicious pieces of electrical tape wrapped around wires that are a little out of place. I need to pull the tape and see if there are actual splices underneath but didn't feel like digging into it tonight. Whoever owned this car before me wired the parking lights in front to be the turn signals and then removed the signals from the bumper (idiots)
I wonder if they were stupid enough to do the splicing at the ecu.... It wouldn't surprise me after some of the stuff I've seen on this car.

22re has the car at his house and has offered to do some work on it during the day so I'm hoping he can come up with a solution. Otherwise I am thinking of buying a harness and ecu that I found for $125. Not a bad deal in my opinion. This would allow me to fix the turn signal thing without spending time tracing wires and fixing somebody else's mess.

I did look at the circuit board and it looks completely normal front and back. I keep hoping I am going to find something obvious that will give me that AHA! moment........... to be continued...............
geronimo81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2010, 01:03 AM   #23
williaty
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 71092
Join Date: Sep 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Delaware County, Ohio
Vehicle:
2005 2.5RS Wagon
Regal Blue Pearl

Default

Given the weirdness that you're having, the injector wires in the harness near the ECU would make sense. Hopefully, it's something easier.
williaty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2010, 10:44 AM   #24
rexburg22re
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 257609
Join Date: Sep 2010
Default

I was thinking that since we kept getting hydro-locked after a few koeo cycles, it might affect compression readings as well... but then I answered my own question because we've only got excess fuel on the pass side and compression was the same all around.
rexburg22re is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2010, 04:14 AM   #25
geronimo81
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 154586
Join Date: Jul 2007
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: San Ramon
Vehicle:
1996 Turbo Outback
9psi on 91 No EM

Default

It runs! Still has some small hiccups to be worked out but it runs and drives pretty well.

So we decided to pull the manifold back off which did not end up being that hard. As far as I can tell one of the hard fuel lines was tweaked so it was lining up with the fuel return line that comes off of the manifold on one end. I had hooked the hose up wrong so that the inbound fuel for the passenger side was getting fuel at the bottom of the injectors instead of through the fuel rail at the top. I know this might not make sense so I will post a pic tomorrow if I have time with a more succinct explanation.

First impressions of my first 2.5 are that this car has a boat load of torque! My current 1.8 makes it look pretty good. It's not running perfectly and I noticed the headlights dimming every so often and it also would miss at higher rpms. The header has two leaks in it that I might try to weld (have someone else weld). If it is a genuine borla how do I tell? Will they warranty it if I am not the original purchaser?

I'm tired and dirty and want to go to bed so I am gonna go take a shower and try to sleep.

Thanks everyone for your support and a special thanks to Paul (22re) for spending about 20+ hours helping me on this
geronimo81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Gas is just pouring out of my car ramoh Newbies & FAQs 25 08-04-2009 11:23 AM
Spurts of Oil out of tailpipe? Rwu00313 Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.0L Turbo) 12 03-30-2007 09:45 PM
Thick white smoke coming out of tailpipe tr3 Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.0L Turbo) 7 02-02-2007 08:33 PM
OT DOCTORS: Sand is pouring out of my.... Turk Off-Topic 5 10-13-2006 02:19 PM
Help- black smoke pouring out of my car JeffY Normally Aspirated with bolt-on Forced Induction Powertrain 32 04-21-2002 01:14 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2015 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2015, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.