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Old 09-14-2010, 02:45 PM   #101
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Why not just use electric push fans for the intercooler? That's an aero mess and limits rear visibility which will be at a premium anyway.
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Old 09-14-2010, 02:57 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silver arrow View Post
Why not just use electric push fans for the intercooler? That's an aero mess and limits rear visibility which will be at a premium anyway.
Fans don't move enough air, simple as that. Show me one manufacture that uses electronic fans to cool an intercooler. Even if it did move enough air, I would still need a source for the air to begin with. As far as it being an aero mess, I don't think so. Look at cars like the Exige S and the Porsche GT1. Both use aggressive roof scoops to direct air to intercoolers. As long as the air is managed properly as it exits the intercooler's path, there is no negative effect. As far as rear visibility, if you read the post that has the pictures, you will see I already have a solution for that in mind.
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Old 09-14-2010, 05:38 PM   #103
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I don't know how much room there is up front but a well designed water to air could present some other packaging ideas...
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Old 09-14-2010, 05:47 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
I don't know how much room there is up front but a well designed water to air could present some other packaging ideas...
I plan on using an air-water for the "street version" but not for the race version.
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Old 09-14-2010, 06:16 PM   #105
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That scoop is crazy!

What does the passenger side vent lead to?

Nick
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Old 09-14-2010, 08:52 PM   #106
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Why not have dual scoops on each side right behind the window? That way you can keep the rear window functional and could have less material and a little more options in design.

Obviously you don't need our help and I assume you thought of that option but it was what popped into my head. Either way sweet work!

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Old 09-15-2010, 02:23 PM   #107
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Since you're talking about racing this, you will want to consider gearbox cooling. The race teams we work with initially went with a fender mounted external cooler. That still wasn't enough and the gearboxes were still burning up. They then went to a front mounted cooler and everything was perfect.

However, given the turbo exhaust plumbing you may not have the same issues that the stock vehicles do. With the stock engine, the headers run right next to the gearbox (and the CV axles) and it basically serves as a heat sink for the exhaust heat. Your revised plumbing may not pose the same issues, but it's definitely something to consider before you get too far commited to any one configuration.

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Old 09-15-2010, 02:59 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by Matt Monson View Post
Since you're talking about racing this, you will want to consider gearbox cooling. The race teams we work with initially went with a fender mounted external cooler. That still wasn't enough and the gearboxes were still burning up. They then went to a front mounted cooler and everything was perfect.

However, given the turbo exhaust plumbing you may not have the same issues that the stock vehicles do. With the stock engine, the headers run right next to the gearbox (and the CV axles) and it basically serves as a heat sink for the exhaust heat. Your revised plumbing may not pose the same issues, but it's definitely something to consider before you get too far commited to any one configuration.

Regards,

Matt
The plan is to take the gearbox apart and install an LSD. While it's apart, I plan on welding some bungs into the case directly above the gears. Those bungs will supply cool oil from an oil cooler that will be mounted in one of the side quarter panel vents.
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Old 09-15-2010, 03:31 PM   #109
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oh man.. i just wanna hear this bitch run!
i have an ear for the unequal length header boxer engine.. but to turn my head and see a Porsche roll by = **** in underwear

/excite
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Old 09-17-2010, 06:21 PM   #110
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as much as I love this project, that roof scoop is horrid... sorry. Purely from a personal aesthetic point of view... please find a new way to do what you need. That looks as bad a Sam Hubinette's terrible viper scoop.

Everything else is AWESOME!!!
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Old 09-17-2010, 06:49 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by scottjua View Post
as much as I love this project, that roof scoop is horrid... sorry. Purely from a personal aesthetic point of view... please find a new way to do what you need. That looks as bad a Sam Hubinette's terrible viper scoop.

Everything else is AWESOME!!!
I'm open to suggestions, but it has to fit the following criteria in exactly this order...

1. It MUST supply a trunk mounted intercooler with a lot of clean, cool, fresh air.

2. It MUST be easily removable to allow for serviceability and removal of the hard top.

3. It MUST be light weight

4. It MUST be simple to recreate so that it can be produced and sold at a reasonable price (less than $700)

5. It MUST be "aesthetically pleasing"
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Old 09-17-2010, 07:27 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcpaz View Post
I'm open to suggestions, but it has to fit the following criteria in exactly this order...

1. It MUST supply a trunk mounted intercooler with a lot of clean, cool, fresh air.

2. It MUST be easily removable to allow for serviceability and removal of the hard top.

3. It MUST be light weight

4. It MUST be simple to recreate so that it can be produced and sold at a reasonable price (less than $700)

5. It MUST be "aesthetically pleasing"
have you seen the older mr2 snorkel style intake? a larger version of that on both sides would fit your description.
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Old 09-18-2010, 10:19 AM   #113
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awesome, this is a cooler swap even than an LSx Rx7 (which are F A S T)

look foward to seeing a street version, that's where your fabskills will really be put to work

the scoop admittedly isn't the most beautiful thing from the side profile, but nonetheless I think it's a nice execution for what you need. The Mr2 snorkels are a cool idea, also what about checking in to what Acura NSX's use. I seem to recall seeing some of those with some very good looking scoops as well. Granted Mr2's and Acuras are Targa's instead of roadsters, but they may still give you some ideas. Then maybe you can have a "street" version of your cooling scoops too!
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Old 09-18-2010, 10:11 PM   #114
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I love what you are doing with this project it will be amazing.

As far as your scoop, I think side scoops would be much better looking although may require a little more work.....however maybe something like this could work as well.




it could require you to fab some internal ducting to direct the air. It could definately provide you with a smoother body line...something like an Honda s2000 hardtop. I imagine the intakes attached to the hardtop and sealed to the decklid area via a rubber seal.

Anyhow just an idea.

you have an amazing car and I can appreciate the extremely high quality of work you have done.
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Old 09-18-2010, 10:30 PM   #115
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I think we've given enough opinions. Let's just enjoy the build and see how it turns out. The scoop is just for the race car.
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Old 09-18-2010, 10:39 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redWRXrocket View Post
I love what you are doing with this project it will be amazing.

As far as your scoop, I think side scoops would be much better looking although may require a little more work.....however maybe something like this could work as well.




it could require you to fab some internal ducting to direct the air. It could definately provide you with a smoother body line...something like an Honda s2000 hardtop. I imagine the intakes attached to the hardtop and sealed to the decklid area via a rubber seal.

Anyhow just an idea.

you have an amazing car and I can appreciate the extremely high quality of work you have done.
If you saw the layout of the car, you would understand why that wouldn't work.
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Old 09-18-2010, 10:39 PM   #117
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Should be fun watching this car develope, subscribing.
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Old 09-18-2010, 11:14 PM   #118
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To give you a better idea why the scoop is the way it is. Here are some more detailed pictures that show how the Boxsters are WAY different from the MR2's and NSX's. The engine bay is accessed 100% from the interior. There is no separate external access to the engine. If I did two side scoops, they would have to extend all the way to the back of the car where the intercooler will be. This is the main reason why this will be considered a "race set-up" because I assume most street cars will want to retain the use of the rear trunk.



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Old 09-19-2010, 12:52 AM   #119
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I still say water to air for fitment, placement and lack of a need for aero ducting.
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Old 09-19-2010, 01:13 AM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
I still say water to air for fitment, placement and lack of a need for aero ducting.
The car will be a purpose built roar racing car. What's next, a debate between which is better air-to-air vs. air-to-water? For drag racing, autocross or street use, I could see your point, but not for this car.
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Old 09-19-2010, 01:20 AM   #121
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have you considered using the setup of the 993 911 turbo setup?
using a louvered whale tale that directs air into the intercooler. then for your application, add some fans in the trunk (or some vents) to vent away the hot air to the outside.

http://www.europeancarweb.com/tuned/.../photo_13.html



don't forget , you always have the option for meth/alky injection
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Old 09-19-2010, 01:28 AM   #122
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I was thinking 911 type louvers too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcpaz View Post
The car will be a purpose built roar racing car. What's next, a debate between which is better air-to-air vs. air-to-water? For drag racing, autocross or street use, I could see your point, but not for this car.
Fair enough...I'm just saying it has it's perks too and anyone who says a water heat exchanger has no place on a road course might want to do some research...common misnomer.

I like the project, not meaning to sound negative at all...although it does seem like the vultures are out. Just ignore them and keep plugging away
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Old 09-19-2010, 01:39 AM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
Fair enough...I'm just saying it has it's perks too and anyone who says a water heat exchanger has no place on a road course might want to do some research...common misnomer
Show me a professional level road race or rally car that uses an air-water intercooler set-up, and I will show you 100 more that don't. I don't follow the logic that it is a misnomer to assume that an air-to-air style intercooler works better in high speed, endurance applications.

I don't mind the vultures bustin' my balls , but they need to do realize that this isn't my first rodeo and there's usually a reason things are done the way they are done.


Oh, and as far as the "whale tail" idea. Porsche people are usually the first to mention this, and it doesn't work for a few reasons. The most important one being that the Boxsters don't have the same gradual sloping rear section that the 911's have. The abrupt drop off at the rear window on the factory Boxster hard top causes some turbulence right before the rear deck-lid which would be less than ideal for a louvered whale tail. Also, as hideous as some people think the roof scoop is, imagine how ugly a whale tail would be Maybe on a Cayman, but not for a Boxster... and yes, I know about the Zeintop and I'm not about to consider that as an option.
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Old 09-19-2010, 03:04 AM   #124
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I was thinking more this:



Or the 914 radiator setup up front:


Last edited by Kostamojen; 09-19-2010 at 03:09 AM.
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Old 09-19-2010, 10:29 AM   #125
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Show me a professional level road race or rally car that uses an air-water intercooler set-up, and I will show you 100 more that don't. I don't follow the logic that it is a misnomer to assume that an air-to-air style intercooler works better in high speed, endurance applications.
I was simply referring to the use of a water to air heat exchanger. I've seen so many Cup cars and DP cars that use w/a instead of air to air because of the consistent temps that could had, that isn't with the air/air. I will however agree that using water to air for IC purposes would be quite heavy in order to be effective. At least it's weight can be placed throughout the chassis, strategically.
If you've already looked into it and the numbers don't stack up, cool.

Now not knowing the boxster very intimately, how much room is there with the side ducts? what do they feed, if anything? I just saw them in the pics of the engine bay and they seem to go to nothing.

Last edited by Homemade WRX; 09-19-2010 at 10:35 AM.
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