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Old 09-03-2010, 05:13 PM   #1
Turn in Concepts
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Default Latest MSI and TiC project and gauging interest

Hey guys -

I wanted to give all of you a heads up on the latest developments we've been working on and perhaps gauge some interest so MSI and I can anticipate starting demand for the first couple of batches for these.

Over in the lateral link thread I started a long time ago there was questions of trailing arms and bushings. I hinted around, and for those that can't read between the lines yes it is something we've been working on.

So, we've been really busy, and I have a few things to show off, and get feedback on. There is one thing I will say about this thread. You will not see us or MSI posting pricing info here. It's a no-no to post any prices outside the for sale area. Any questions on price will go unanswered by us in this thread.

So, what we have up first is the trailing arm from MSI.

Here's some details on the arm:
  • Material is 4130
  • Body will be tubular meaning much stiffer than stock
  • There will be two arm length options
  • Option A is for the stock ride height folks or slightly lowered (lowered less than 1"). This arm is the stock length center to center of the bolt holes
  • Option B is a slightly shorter arm. This is intended for cars that are lowered 1" or more.
  • There are also going to be two big end (forward) end options
  • Option 1 is for the normal folks in that it will take a bushing. It is sized for a stock bushing which means you'll be able to use stock, group n, whiteline, powerflex, or ours (more on that in a sec)
  • Option 2 is for the race folks in that it's a spherical bearing.

Here is a pic to show you what I'm talking about. This one happens to show the front housing for the bearing end style. For the bushing end style take out that bit in the large loop.

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Last edited by Turn in Concepts; 09-05-2010 at 03:43 PM.
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Old 09-03-2010, 05:13 PM   #2
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On to the bushings. As MSI has been working and sending me info for feedback we've been doing the same. It really has become a nice two way street on collaboration.

Many of the details are going to be just like the lateral link bushings we released not too long ago, but here they are for those of you who have not been following along.
  • Medical grade urethane (no heavy metals used as the catalyst)
  • Shore 95A stiffness
  • Graphite impregnated
  • Machined stainless steel crush tube
  • Split design for ease of install
  • Will not only fit the MSI arms pictured above, but will also fit the stock arms or any other arms that use a stock sized bushing in the same location

Here's a few pics of what we're looking at:




Last edited by Turn in Concepts; 09-03-2010 at 05:39 PM.
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Old 09-03-2010, 05:40 PM   #3
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Now, on to the purpose of this thread.

It's really twofold.

First is to let you guys know what we're working on as we, and I'm sure MSI, gets the question quite a bit of what we're up to.

Second is to gauge the market interest so we can somehow anticipate the demand for these parts so we know how many to make in the first couple of batches.

So, please, if you have any thoughts let us know. If you're interested let us know.
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Old 09-03-2010, 06:11 PM   #4
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They look really good so far. Any idea as to possible release date for these?

Also since there looks to be a couple of options available, if you were to get the ones designed for 1" or more of lowering and your car isn't lowered that much would there be any negatives? Would they not fit if for some reason the car is higher up (i.e. you have to revert back to stock height or your springs end up lowering less than 1")?

How about the other way around. If you get the ones that are basically designed for Non-Lowered vehicles and end up lowering more than 1" is there any issues?



BTW - Still waiting on seeing those Options being listed on the bottom of the MSI Lateral Links page.

http://turninconcepts.com/product_in...oducts_id=1123
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Old 09-03-2010, 06:20 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flukewrx View Post
They look really good so far. Any idea as to possible release date for these?

Also since there looks to be a couple of options available, if you were to get the ones designed for 1" or more of lowering and your car isn't lowered that much would there be any negatives? Would they not fit if for some reason the car is higher up (i.e. you have to revert back to stock height or your springs end up lowering less than 1")?

How about the other way around. If you get the ones that are basically designed for Non-Lowered vehicles and end up lowering more than 1" is there any issues?
Last question first.

The ones made for stock/near stock levels are the same length as the stock arms. Thus, from a geometry standpoint nothing has changed vs. stock. At that point you're getting an arm that is stiffer than stock.

The ones made for a drop of 1" or more will pull the knuckle back into it's proper place so everything moves as originally intended in the arc centering around the inside points of the lateral links. Right now there's a bunch of cars (mine included) that are lowered this much, and as such are pushing the knuckle back and side loading the lateral link bushings leading to more static friction.

If you were to get the arm for a lowered car, and put it in a car that is not lowered the you are pulling things forward and again loading the bushings causing more static friction.

There's other things to this as well, but I haven't figured out a way to describe the pictures and motion in my head. I'll have to think about how to type that up so people understand.

Release date I am not sure on. It depends on a number of factors such as machine shop lead time and the like.

You know, very good point on that option. I need to add that...
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Old 09-03-2010, 07:16 PM   #6
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is 1.0 inches really the cut off point between the two arms??

i'm currently at a less than an inch drop and my springs are about 6yrs old.. in the case my springs sag or go bad somehow, i wouldn't wanna get one thing then have to get another purchase later on

<in my specific case, my springs are no longer made.. otherwise, i would get another set of the same ones>
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Old 09-03-2010, 07:25 PM   #7
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Sounds like something I would be interested in since I would want geometry to stay where it should be. I'd be in the >1" drop catagory. I should note that I don't have my coils yet but will before the years end.
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Old 09-03-2010, 07:28 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subaru3169 View Post
is 1.0 inches really the cut off point between the two arms??

i'm currently at a less than an inch drop and my springs are about 6yrs old.. in the case my springs sag or go bad somehow, i wouldn't wanna get one thing then have to get another purchase later on

<in my specific case, my springs are no longer made.. otherwise, i would get another set of the same ones>
We had to pick a point somewhere. 1.0 made the most sense for the change.
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Old 09-03-2010, 08:07 PM   #9
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Will these arms have more inboard clearance than the stock arms? I am definitely interested depending of course on the price.
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Old 09-03-2010, 08:38 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pignoseSTI View Post
Will these arms have more inboard clearance than the stock arms? I am definitely interested depending of course on the price.
I would not say enough to make a significant difference. MSI can pull the reference points to compare, but I really don't think it will be much.
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Old 09-03-2010, 09:37 PM   #11
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Yes, another part to add to the car.

I need clarification on the two different length arms.

Stock I understand. Lowered I do not.

If you lower the car, then you effectively swing the arm upwards. By doing so, you effectively push the axle line further back. Thus wouldn't you want a shorter arm to effectively pull the axle line forward, thus recentering it?
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Old 09-03-2010, 10:58 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big-E View Post
Yes, another part to add to the car.

I need clarification on the two different length arms.

Stock I understand. Lowered I do not.

If you lower the car, then you effectively swing the arm upwards. By doing so, you effectively push the axle line further back. Thus wouldn't you want a shorter arm to effectively pull the axle line forward, thus recentering it?
Whoops. Your right. That'll teach me to proofread.

edit: fixed it. Thank you for catching that.

Last edited by Turn in Concepts; 09-03-2010 at 11:04 PM.
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Old 09-04-2010, 08:25 AM   #13
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I am seriously interested, but as all your recent projects I wont be buying for awhile. (next time come out with the cool **** BEFORE I buy a house ).

Could you PM me a price range since can't technically post in the thread? I would be looking at the 1" lowered with shperical.

Last edited by Daishi00; 09-05-2010 at 07:59 PM. Reason: proofreading iPad spelling is key people
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Old 09-04-2010, 09:51 AM   #14
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So will you be making a wagon arm?

Kidding, kidding. I won't even post comic book characters in this thread.
Really, it's great that you guys focus so strongly on how these parts need to be designed for the majority of the hobbyist-level enthusiasts, an area where so many previous iterations made by other manufacturers have failed. Your design efforts reflect how we want or need our parts to be configured, rather than trying to convince us that your particular design is how we should want them to be built--if that makes any sense.

I think you guys at TiC and MSI have earned more than a few loyal customers just by what we see in these threads.
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Old 09-05-2010, 08:30 AM   #15
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We are trying. Will try and have the first prototypes out in the next week or so. We will test 3 different version, one on a gravel car, one on a track car, and one on a street car and go from there.

Thanks for everyone's support in advance, and TIC keep up the good work
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Old 09-05-2010, 11:28 AM   #16
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Awesome This and some wagon length lateral links and my rear end will be done.
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Old 09-05-2010, 12:25 PM   #17
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is there a "lowering correction" part for the front end to match these rear ones?

a packaged front + rear product would be great, depending on the price.

seems a little pointless to recorrect the rear end without doing it to the front as well.
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Old 09-05-2010, 03:43 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vicious_fishes View Post
is there a "lowering correction" part for the front end to match these rear ones?

a packaged front + rear product would be great, depending on the price.

seems a little pointless to recorrect the rear end without doing it to the front as well.
about the only thing out there that fits this bill is the whiteline roll center kit.
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Old 09-05-2010, 08:32 PM   #19
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These do look very good. Pardon me for being a dumb lazy mofo, but was there ever a pricepoint reached on the solid rear MSI tubular arms? I would possibly be interested in a full rear set, with standard bushings (like your bushings).
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Old 09-05-2010, 09:53 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turn in Concepts View Post
about the only thing out there that fits this bill is the whiteline roll center kit.
Or MSI uprights
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Old 09-06-2010, 12:51 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turn in Concepts View Post
about the only thing out there that fits this bill is the whiteline roll center kit.
mmmhmmm

well i'm certainly interested in the "more than 1 inch" thing you have going on here, price dependent of course.

i know you're not allowed to list prices but one of us can if you PM it right?

edit: is that 1 inch from wrx or sti height?

also, does this thread bear any similarity to your proposal http://www.iwsti.com/forums/vendor-a...-tic-soon.html ?

Last edited by vicious_fishes; 09-06-2010 at 01:01 AM.
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Old 09-06-2010, 01:06 AM   #22
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Whats up with a front subframe? MSI and plans on making one of those?

Jr
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Old 09-06-2010, 12:15 PM   #23
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Out of curiosity, why do you want to go more than 1" with OE pick-up points?

Front sub frame is a long time away if at all. Any benefit that we would have designed into it would be pointless with OEM parts therefor, would not fit the majority of cars anyhow. We made a version of the uprights for use with OE parts to fix the geometry in a more affordable fashion than a frame and all the associated parts that would be required.

So unless by some miracle, we receive an order for 50 front frames with OE parts, it is not going to happen any time soon. Too many other items pressing with a more profitable return on investment.
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Old 09-06-2010, 01:15 PM   #24
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I'm interested, I hope this becomes available soon
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Old 09-07-2010, 09:33 AM   #25
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Interested as long as they don't reduce inboard clearance.

If there was more inboard clearance that'd be good, the Cuscos are rumor'd to have slightly more inboard clearance.
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