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Old 09-07-2010, 06:54 PM   #1
prokaw875
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Version 8 EJ207

Default spec's for a 500-600hp ej207 build?

So here is the short story. I swapped my 04 outback sport with a mint 12,000km EJ207(version8) and stopped modding after it was done because my employer moved to Mexico. So now I landed a great new Job and we all know what that means.;-)

Here is the goal, lmk your opinions on the motor mods.


Full-race gen2 rotated twin scroll Borg warner s362(35r size)
Weekend car only and will only run vp in it.
Final goal of 500 awhp to 600 depending on final tune, psi, and Oct.

I was thinking stock bottom end, cosie rods n pistons, bc 280's, bc valvetrain, Apr head studs. Keep it simple but yet effective.
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Old 09-07-2010, 07:47 PM   #2
cubuff
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read my PM
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Old 09-07-2010, 08:02 PM   #3
MainFrame
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I would go with Kelford, or GSC cams and valve train. Kelford 272s are going to have more lift than BC 280s.
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Old 09-08-2010, 06:14 PM   #4
scby rex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prokaw875 View Post
I was thinking stock bottom end, cosie rods n pistons, bc 280's, bc valvetrain, Apr head studs. Keep it simple but yet effective.
why do you say stock bottom end then talk about rods and pistons? Ditch the idea about the bc stuff, use kelford or cosworth.
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Old 09-08-2010, 07:23 PM   #5
teiva-boy
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Find a reliable and trusted builder here on NASIOC. Ask them, they have the right answers. At this point your picking at what sounds cool.

You can also already buy premade short and long blocks that can support this power level. This makes the decision process that much easier. At those power levels, you will have to have you heads worked too IMO.
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Old 09-08-2010, 08:40 PM   #6
kenikh
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There is only one spec for an EJ207 w/ that kind of power:

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Old 09-08-2010, 08:44 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenikh View Post
There is only one spec for an EJ207 w/ that kind of power:

And thats different from a 257 how? Are you speaking with any experience with a 207? The 207 is actually a stronger block than a 257.
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Old 09-08-2010, 08:48 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenikh View Post
There is only one spec for an EJ207 w/ that kind of power:

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Old 09-08-2010, 09:01 PM   #9
kenikh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cubuff View Post
And thats different from a 257 how? Are you speaking with any experience with a 207? The 207 is actually a stronger block than a 257.
It's no different, other than you are trying to make power with .5L less displacement. Big power costs money...lots of it, especially with less displacement. The closed deck case is pretty much inconsequential (from the EJ207), because it has nothing to do with the power you make, only with increased margin for reliability once you get there.

Don't even ask me how much I've spent building my 2.3L twin turbo 911 motor. I will say I could have bought a stock 3.3L 930 for less than the motor. If you want to build a "mighty mite" motor, costs go up in a j-curve and the things that can go wrong get amplified exponentially over an equivalent larger displacement motor.

The earlier advice was best: find a builder that has done it, has proven their setup reliable, open your check book, grease up the seat of your pants and say thank you after every check you write.
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Old 09-08-2010, 09:17 PM   #10
project_skyline
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Why spend all that money and use POS BC stuff? GSC s1's make more power then the 280's.

Joe@ASFmachine is your man, he is a vendor on here!
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Old 09-08-2010, 09:54 PM   #11
Prevent
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cubuff View Post
And thats different from a 257 how? Are you speaking with any experience with a 207? The 207 is actually a stronger block than a 257.
V8 207, thats debatable..

Hypercast pistons like the EJ257., blahblahblahblha.
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Old 09-09-2010, 02:17 AM   #12
cubuff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prevent View Post
V8 207, thats debatable..

Hypercast pistons like the EJ257., blahblahblahblha.
The 207 is a stronger block less the internals. The cylinder sleeves are a considerable amount thicker than the 257.
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Old 09-09-2010, 02:27 AM   #13
cubuff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenikh View Post
It's no different, other than you are trying to make power with .5L less displacement. Big power costs money...lots of it, especially with less displacement. The closed deck case is pretty much inconsequential (from the EJ207), because it has nothing to do with the power you make, only with increased margin for reliability once you get there.

Don't even ask me how much I've spent building my 2.3L twin turbo 911 motor. I will say I could have bought a stock 3.3L 930 for less than the motor. If you want to build a "mighty mite" motor, costs go up in a j-curve and the things that can go wrong get amplified exponentially over an equivalent larger displacement motor.

The earlier advice was best: find a builder that has done it, has proven their setup reliable, open your check book, grease up the seat of your pants and say thank you after every check you write.
Sure... but, you can say that for any motor that is larger. But doesnt that take some of the meaning out of the hobby? If all the power seeking car guru's all had the same big v8's that would be boring. The point was the cost of making 500-600 hp on an ej207 is really no different than making it on a 257. I would argue that it is the exact same amount. Forged internals and a 35r or bigger. They will make similar numbers with the 257 edging it out slightly.

When I built my 207 the price different wouldnt have been any different to build a 257. I choose the 207 for higher revs and to do something different than my previous 2 257 builds. I have a 600hp ej207, so I am one who has done it.

Would love to see some info on your 2.3 tt porsche. That sounds pretty awesome. Have always been a huge fan of fast porsches.
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Old 09-09-2010, 07:25 AM   #14
iana
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I don't understand the question. One is 20% more than the other???? That's a huge ask.

What do you want to build?
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Old 09-09-2010, 10:44 AM   #15
kenikh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cubuff View Post
Would love to see some info on your 2.3 tt porsche. That sounds pretty awesome. Have always been a huge fan of fast porsches.
Here you go - I haven't updated it in a while, so it still shows the single turbo that is going into my EJ22T project. The 911 will use twin small Garretts.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...part-deux.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by cubuff View Post
Sure... but, you can say that for any motor that is larger. But doesnt that take some of the meaning out of the hobby? If all the power seeking car guru's all had the same big v8's that would be boring. The point was the cost of making 500-600 hp on an ej207 is really no different than making it on a 257. I would argue that it is the exact same amount. Forged internals and a 35r or bigger. They will make similar numbers with the 257 edging it out slightly.

When I built my 207 the price different wouldnt have been any different to build a 257. I choose the 207 for higher revs and to do something different than my previous 2 257 builds. I have a 600hp ej207, so I am one who has done it.
This was the same rationale I had with the 911, so let me warn you about what you get into trying to "make more with less". Less displacement means you need to strain parts more, machine to tighter tolerances, run closer to the ragged edge of tune, go for more aggressive came lobes and valve train, lighter internals everywhere, etc, etc...anything in pursuit of decreasing parasitic drag, increasing VE, you name it, in trying to compensate for that lack of displacement.

The 911 motor above? If I'd gone with a 3.3L 930 motor, I could have reached the power numbers I am after with a $5000 used motor and be done with it. Instead, I am building a motor, that in parts and machining alone, would allow the purchase of a WRX STi that is still under factory warranty.

When you go for the edge, costs rapidly spiral into realms one would never imagine. The thing I love about Subaru tuning so much is that you can make so much power for such a cheap pricetag, relative to other cars (e.g. Porsches, BMWs, etc.). If your goal is to build a Ken Block replica, realize that you could pretty much buy anything, so you'd better be committed.
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