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Old 09-09-2010, 09:20 AM   #1
masterx81
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Default Rod lenght questions (2.123 stroker with wiseco pistons)

Hi! I'm doing a stroker with wiseco pistons (code K579M925).
They ask for a 5.181'' (131.6mm) rod, but crower have only:
B93768B-4 / EJ25 II - DOHC / 5.185'' (131.7mm)
While Pauter have
2.5L 2000 and newer SOHC / 5.180'' (131.57mm)

Now, the 2.5 engines what rods lenght have???

Thanks!
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Old 09-09-2010, 10:54 AM   #2
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Wrx rods and sti rods are the same length.

I used off the shelf eagle rods for my 2.1 stroker build.


use a 79mm sti crank, 2.0 (2.1) stroker pistons, stock length rods (130.5 mm rod length).

Here is custom piston sheet

Last edited by NITROS; 09-09-2010 at 11:01 AM.
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Old 09-09-2010, 11:09 AM   #3
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As stated in the post, i've buyied a set of K579M925, that need the strange 5.181'' rods...
I've preferred this pistons due to the lower rod angle and higher rod/stroke ratio.
Your pistons will have the same comrpession height of the Mahle stroker one's, as both uses 130.5 rods...
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Old 09-09-2010, 11:35 AM   #4
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ej25's came with 3 different rod lengths....

work out the math with the compression height and double check the math. Phase 2 EJ25's were 131.6 mm. Phase 1 was 131.25 (if I recall) but also have a 48mm rod journal.

You can actually fit a longer rod on this setup
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Old 09-09-2010, 03:52 PM   #5
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im pretty sure phase 1 131.6 also just had the 48mm journal. the 131.25 was the phase 2 DOHC and phase 2 SOHC is 131.6 52mm journal,
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Old 09-10-2010, 06:27 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
ej25's came with 3 different rod lengths....

work out the math with the compression height and double check the math. Phase 2 EJ25's were 131.6 mm. Phase 1 was 131.25 (if I recall) but also have a 48mm rod journal.

You can actually fit a longer rod on this setup
Actually, i need a 131.5 rod for have the top of the pistons in line with the deck surface.
But, why for same engines they sell rods with different lenghts?
So, i must search for phase 2 SOHC rods... Apart pauter and crower, someone know who made rod like this?

Last edited by masterx81; 09-10-2010 at 11:29 AM.
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Old 09-10-2010, 10:35 AM   #7
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Pauter makes them and Crower will make them for you as well for about the same cost. Expect about $800 US.
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Old 09-10-2010, 11:29 AM   #8
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800$ is why i'm searching some other that made this type of rods
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Old 09-10-2010, 11:12 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masterx81 View Post
800$ is why i'm searching some other that made this type of rods
You wanna play.. you gotta pay
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Old 09-11-2010, 06:51 PM   #10
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Don't worry about getting zero piston deck, worry about setting proper quench. Its better on a turbo Subaru that all the quench volume is NOT in the gasket.

You can use phase 2 N/A rods however you will be power limited to around 300WHP.

It would have been cheaper actually to do custom pistons than custom rods. Given the limited selection of rod lengths available at affordable prices I would say size the piston pin height and deck clearance to the rod. Not the other way round. It would be cheaper to return those pistons and get a set with 30.5 - 30.8 piston pin height.

Also have a check of the actual pin height of the pistons you have just to be sure...



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Old 09-12-2010, 06:55 AM   #11
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Uhm, why the quench height must not be high as the gasket? For detonation?
I'm planning to machine the combustion chambers with a 2/3 angle on the quench areas (v4 heads have the quench pads), and use a small piston/head clearance (0.8mm on the nearest point).

I've buyied the pistons from an another user that have abandone a similar project, and i've paid them quite less than new... Saved some moneys from the pistons, and now i must pay a lot the rods... Doh!
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Old 09-12-2010, 08:26 AM   #12
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If the head and deck surface are not perfect then much bigger chance for leaks if using zero deck clearance. OEM spec puts two thirds of the quench height in the gasket.

.8 mm deck clearance? With even the thinnest gasket you will have 1.4 mm quench height. That's quite a lot actually for an EJ. I noticed however your pistons are 31 mm pin height so zero deck with OEM rod length. If you use .040 in MLS gasket (which would be the minimum) you will be at 8.7:1 C.R. If you are comfortable with that super. If not maybe another reason to change pistons.
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Old 09-12-2010, 09:00 AM   #13
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In the v4 ej20 the piston at the tdc is 0.2/0.3mm (not remember) above the deck...
In any case the peak pressure in the combustion chamber is near at 10~20 after tdc, with the piston well past the quench zone...
The thinnest cometic gasket is 0.64mm, but if i use the crower rods (131.7mm) i'll have the piston 0.2mm above the deck (my pistons have a comp. height of 30mm, and the deck height is 201mm), so i need an 1.0/1.1mm gasket for the correct 0.8mm squish band (0.8 will be only near the gasket, remember the 2/3 angle in the quench pads)
I'll plan to resurface both heads and block, with the right finish (<30ra)...

I've worked also the seats (5 angle job) and the combustion chambers (deshrounding, smoothing, modified quench pads, etc, plus i'm evaluating if do a techline thermal coat), so the cr calculations aren't correct. Plus i'll use kent sub03 cams, that lower the effective cr vs both oem sti and wrx. I'll use a gt3076r, the effective cr will be something like 0.5 more than oem (as now i've not made static cr calculations, first i need to finish the job on the heads). For pushing the gt30 at the limits with that relative high cr i'll use water/meth injection. I need to use a tmic (an mrt one... Here in italy the police is quite boring, and the engine must look like oem...), so for pushing it to the limit, meth injection is a must...
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Old 09-17-2010, 08:31 PM   #14
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I end getting some crower i beam rods...
I've readed over here that weight less than the pauter...
So, both have a good reputability, i'll choose what weight less...
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Old 09-22-2010, 03:03 PM   #15
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Uhm i've seen that k1 made some 5.180'' rods... 0.1mm in difference isn't a throuble...
Any feedback about k1 rods?
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Old 09-22-2010, 05:18 PM   #16
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nowhere near the quality or strength of a crower rod. Plain and simple. Quality control is lacking on their rods as well.

Just get the 5.180 crowers and call it good. Otherwise you'll be doing it twice.
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Old 09-22-2010, 07:25 PM   #17
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Direct experience?
Maybe the price that is half the crower it's quite self explicative...
The "lack of quality controls" it's what worry me...
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Old 09-22-2010, 07:44 PM   #18
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lots. IF I bring it up again I'm sure someone will flame me.

To sum it up:
wrong clearances
twisted rods.
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Old 09-22-2010, 07:57 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Power View Post
lots. IF I bring it up again I'm sure someone will flame me.

To sum it up:
wrong clearances
twisted rods.

Ok, quite explicative... They are made in china, and then finished in the USA... This mean that also te work done in USA isn't that nice
I'm ok with china productions, BUT only if there are some serious quality controls.
Thanks for sharing your experience!
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Old 09-22-2010, 09:30 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masterx81 View Post

Ok, quite explicative... They are made in china, and then finished in the USA... This mean that also te work done in USA isn't that nice
I'm ok with china productions, BUT only if there are some serious quality controls.
Thanks for sharing your experience!
I had a set of Chinese made rods in my car for a long time. It hit over 8300 rpm over and over on a 2.5L making over 500whp. They showed up with very close weights, perfect clearances and have obviously handled a lot of power and abuse. Another similar set is in my car now. +2mm in length and I go 9300rpm routinely making 500whp+ again. Same rods in Bariga's car that made 520whp and 8500rpm on a 2.5L.

It's all about the quality control.
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Old 10-05-2010, 10:11 AM   #21
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Thanks to this thread:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1902135
(I love NASIOC)
i've also noticed that oliver made some 5.180 rods, are a bit cheaper than the pauters:
5.180” Subaru EJ25 LT 0.906 2.164 S5180LT

now the choose is between crower, oliver and pauter... pauter are the heaviest...
cower B93767B-4 (no known weight) 5.185'' ~770$ (must be quite light...)
oliver S5180LT 5.180'' 545g ~700$
pauter SUB-230-550-1315F 5.180'' 585g ~790$

Plus the already mentioned k1 that aren't up to the task...
Feedback about this rods? Over the net i've seen some crower broken, one pauter and no feedbacks on olivers...
Thanks!
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Old 10-05-2010, 01:07 PM   #22
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why do most people go with the 2.1 stroker rather than a 2.2? or is this the closest you can get with sti crank and weisco pistons?
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Old 10-05-2010, 01:27 PM   #23
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92.5 mm bore + 79 mm stroke = 2,123.5 cc... 92.5 is max permissible bore in the OEM EJ205 (yes I know there are 93 mm pistons but the FSM says .5 mm is max over bore). 79 mm is the longest standard stroke so you get a 2.12 liter engine with the combination.

To get to higher displacements in the EJ205 block becomes much more expensive. You will have to use an aftermarket crankshaft and/or sleeve the motor to a larger bore. The BC 2.29 L kit for example, uses a 96 mm bore and 79 mm stroke to get 2,287.3 cc and costs over $3K and does not include the cylinder sleeves that you will need to get to a 96 mm bore. A Cosworth component set using a 92.5 mm bore and 81 mm stroke (2,177.3 cc) will cost about $7K. For 99% of builds there is no point to spending all of that money and the benefit/cost/value is not increased to make them practical for most builds.

The 2.12 l stroker is simple, practical and affordable for the larger number of builders. It's definitely the best bang for the buck to increase displacement and power on the EJ205.

Last edited by soobaviator; 10-05-2010 at 01:44 PM.
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