Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Wednesday July 8, 2015
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Normally Aspirated Powertrain

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-18-2010, 09:13 PM   #26
00LGTP
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 172618
Join Date: Feb 2008
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Vehicle:
2000 RS
BRP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 00LGTP View Post
you already have the manifold i am putting on.

here is the fuel rail/line kit i was talking about earlier.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/High-...mZ280562461348
anyone have an opinion?

FPR- maybe get another one, but the rails and lines are rails and lines.

the 08 WRX injectors(blue) and 2.5i (yellow) are the same, i just need to know if the distance from the center of the injector bore to the other. might work, fabbing a bracket for the rail would be easy.

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
00LGTP is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 09-19-2010, 07:22 PM   #27
00LGTP
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 172618
Join Date: Feb 2008
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Vehicle:
2000 RS
BRP

Default

someone must have some information or opinion. TTT
00LGTP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2010, 10:12 PM   #28
Storm
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 5218
Join Date: Mar 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: SAUL'S Motorsports
Vehicle:
96L Most Over-
Developed Beater

Default

The bore spacing is the same on all EJ's, so the injectors will line up fine. You may need to fab a bracket to hold the rail down.....yes.

I see the makings of an ITB setup in that pic......

Jay
Storm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2010, 07:26 AM   #29
00LGTP
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 172618
Join Date: Feb 2008
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Vehicle:
2000 RS
BRP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm View Post
The bore spacing is the same on all EJ's, so the injectors will line up fine. You may need to fab a bracket to hold the rail down.....yes.

I see the makings of an ITB setup in that pic......

Jay
good to know! thanks

of the ITB thing, i took that pic from searching. not mine


maybe ill order that fuel rail kit off ebay some time this week.
00LGTP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2010, 04:46 PM   #30
00LGTP
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 172618
Join Date: Feb 2008
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Vehicle:
2000 RS
BRP

Default

quick update

getting one of the EGR ports bored out to fit my stock MAP sensor

i installed the 07 coil pack/wires on my 00 RS to make sure everything works as it should before i do the major swap. the best part.... literally plug and play!
00LGTP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2010, 06:33 PM   #31
00LGTP
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 172618
Join Date: Feb 2008
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Vehicle:
2000 RS
BRP

Default



00LGTP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2010, 08:08 PM   #32
Back Road Runner
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 60082
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Minnesota
Vehicle:
2004 Forester STI
Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 00LGTP View Post
i think he means the stock intake tubing cant flow enough to see gain.

its not all about the volume of air, the runner lengths are long and P&P from the factory.
The intake, pre throttle body, is fine for flow. It doesn't limit the car in any way. You can remove all of it and have just the throttle body itself, and there will be zero gains in power up top. The intake piping simply is not restrictive.

What is restrictive is the head/cam. Subaru designs the intake system to flow the same throughout. This means the throttle body, intake manifold, heads, and cams are all geared to flow the same amount and have the same velocity. This of course makes the system share the same restriction. If you increase intake manifold flow, you need to also increase the flow through the heads. This means porting. The cams will also have their own design limitations and are geared for the stock hardware. The exhaust manifold will be designed for stock flow too.

Effectively you want to scale up everything from the start of the intake piping to the end of the exhaust tail pipe. Uneven sizing and restrictions anywhere can limit overall gains.






Is that bracket for the MAP? The runner will exhibit sizable pressure variations in the runner. I question if the MAP reading will be decent enough to be useful. It really should be reading from the center of the plenum area like it is on the older manifold. I'm not sure how ell the ECU will like what it measures from a runner.
Back Road Runner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2010, 08:17 PM   #33
00LGTP
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 172618
Join Date: Feb 2008
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Vehicle:
2000 RS
BRP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Back Road Runner View Post
The intake, pre throttle body, is fine for flow. It doesn't limit the car in any way. You can remove all of it and have just the throttle body itself, and there will be zero gains in power up top. The intake piping simply is not restrictive.

What is restrictive is the head/cam. Subaru designs the intake system to flow the same throughout. This means the throttle body, intake manifold, heads, and cams are all geared to flow the same amount and have the same velocity. This of course makes the system share the same restriction. If you increase intake manifold flow, you need to also increase the flow through the heads. This means porting. The cams will also have their own design limitations and are geared for the stock hardware. The exhaust manifold will be designed for stock flow too.

Effectively you want to scale up everything from the start of the intake piping to the end of the exhaust tail pipe. Uneven sizing and restrictions anywhere can limit overall gains.






Is that bracket for the MAP? The runner will exhibit sizable pressure variations in the runner. I question if the MAP reading will be decent enough to be useful. It really should be reading from the center of the plenum area like it is on the older manifold. I'm not sure how ell the ECU will like what it measures from a runner.

i have every else supporting mod.

Im tnice17 on RS25 and we met up at the ECS meet, now i think you remember me and my car.

yes its for the map. i didnt want to risk welding on the cast aluminium and after talking to a few of my instructors they said it should be good enough for an accurate reading.

some GM MAP sensors are mounted on the firewall and has a small hose going from the intake manifold to the sensor. so i think my location will be ok. well we will find out!

im going to use the 07 injectors with a modified 00/07 rail and RPR
00LGTP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2010, 10:06 PM   #34
Storm
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 5218
Join Date: Mar 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: SAUL'S Motorsports
Vehicle:
96L Most Over-
Developed Beater

Default

One of the holes in the location of that bracket has a passage that leads to the plenum center, and would be a suitable source for the MAP signal. I believe it's the bottom hole, not the top one as that bracket is using.....

Jay
Storm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2010, 10:40 PM   #35
Back Road Runner
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 60082
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Minnesota
Vehicle:
2004 Forester STI
Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 00LGTP View Post
Im tnice17 on RS25 and we met up at the ECS meet, now i think you remember me and my car.

some GM MAP sensors are mounted on the firewall and has a small hose going from the intake manifold to the sensor. so i think my location will be ok. well we will find out!
I assume you're not talking to be about the ECS meet. I'm nowhere near CT.

I know some stand alone ECUs with a built-in MAP will run a hose to a vacuum line. I'm not really sure how accurate it needs to be over time. It may just work off averages. Like Storm mentioned, it might be a specific hole and not just any.

I am curious. Why did you opt for the cast intake instead of the plastic one?
Back Road Runner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2010, 11:53 PM   #36
00LGTP
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 172618
Join Date: Feb 2008
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Vehicle:
2000 RS
BRP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Back Road Runner View Post
I assume you're not talking to be about the ECS meet. I'm nowhere near CT.

I know some stand alone ECUs with a built-in MAP will run a hose to a vacuum line. I'm not really sure how accurate it needs to be over time. It may just work off averages. Like Storm mentioned, it might be a specific hole and not just any.

I am curious. Why did you opt for the cast intake instead of the plastic one?
yea the one in CT. sorry didnt look at your location, similar user names.

anyway, i have 2k cams, P&P IM/TB heads, flat faced valves,EL exhaust, CAI.

i made 168/157 at the ESC meet. stock ECU.

i was looking all over for the plastic one, but air temp can only get you so far on a NA car. runner length and tuning air flow is were its at for power making.
00LGTP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2010, 12:00 AM   #37
00LGTP
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 172618
Join Date: Feb 2008
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Vehicle:
2000 RS
BRP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm View Post
One of the holes in the location of that bracket has a passage that leads to the plenum center, and would be a suitable source for the MAP signal. I believe it's the bottom hole, not the top one as that bracket is using.....

Jay
the top hole does go into the plenum. the bottom one goes to that threaded hole for the EGR.

hope to have this done in the next few weeks.
00LGTP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2010, 01:05 AM   #38
T Wrex--OH
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 179478
Join Date: May 2008
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Cleveland<OH>
Vehicle:
2000 Impreza 2.5 RS
Sedona Red Pearl

Default

This project intrigues me very much.

Interested to see how it works out.
T Wrex--OH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2010, 06:30 PM   #39
Patrick Olsen
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 120
Join Date: Jul 1999
Chapter/Region: AKIC
Location: Where the Navy sends me...
Vehicle:
1997 Legacy 2.5GT
QuickSilver Metallic

Default

00LGTP - Are you anywhere near a shop with an AWD dyno? Is the car still running with the stock IM while you work out the details of the '05+ IM? I would be willing to fund some dyno comparison testing, just because I get off on this sort of thing.

I wanted to put one of these '05+ IMs on my engine, but it would've required extensive modifying since the bolt pattern and runner spacing isn't the same on the N/A DOHC and SOHC engines.

Pat Olsen
Patrick Olsen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2010, 10:23 PM   #40
00LGTP
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 172618
Join Date: Feb 2008
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Vehicle:
2000 RS
BRP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Olsen View Post
00LGTP - Are you anywhere near a shop with an AWD dyno? Is the car still running with the stock IM while you work out the details of the '05+ IM? I would be willing to fund some dyno comparison testing, just because I get off on this sort of thing.

I wanted to put one of these '05+ IMs on my engine, but it would've required extensive modifying since the bolt pattern and runner spacing isn't the same on the N/A DOHC and SOHC engines.

Pat Olsen

i am near ECS in CT. i DD the car now, i drive it back and forth from PA to CT for school

these cars are easy to work, we can just swap it onto your engine. its the least i can do if yours willing to fund the dyno. it is greatly appreciated!

i need to hurry up than, winter time is coming and once a few flakes fall its going in the garage.
00LGTP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2010, 08:02 AM   #41
GC8WSI
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 92857
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: New York
Vehicle:
2000 Swapped GC8 RS
BRP

Default

Good luck dewd!
GC8WSI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2010, 01:33 PM   #42
Patrick Olsen
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 120
Join Date: Jul 1999
Chapter/Region: AKIC
Location: Where the Navy sends me...
Vehicle:
1997 Legacy 2.5GT
QuickSilver Metallic

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 00LGTP View Post
these cars are easy to work, we can just swap it onto your engine. its the least i can do if yours willing to fund the dyno. it is greatly appreciated!
Trust me, it's not that easy, otherwise I would've done it. The bolt pattern for SOHC and N/A DOHC is different where the intake bolts to the heads, so that's the first problem. Even more difficult to overcome is that the distance from the intake ports on one head to the intake ports on the other head is different. In other words, the intake manifolds are different lengths. I remember a picture that showed the difference, but I can't find that now. Anyway, you would basically have to cut off the ends of the intake manifold so you could shorten the runners and then weld it all back together.

If you can get the project done and schedule the time at ECS, then you can just have them call me and I'll put it on my CC.
Patrick Olsen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2010, 05:01 PM   #43
00LGTP
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 172618
Join Date: Feb 2008
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Vehicle:
2000 RS
BRP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Olsen View Post
Trust me, it's not that easy, otherwise I would've done it. The bolt pattern for SOHC and N/A DOHC is different where the intake bolts to the heads, so that's the first problem. Even more difficult to overcome is that the distance from the intake ports on one head to the intake ports on the other head is different. In other words, the intake manifolds are different lengths. I remember a picture that showed the difference, but I can't find that now. Anyway, you would basically have to cut off the ends of the intake manifold so you could shorten the runners and then weld it all back together.

If you can get the project done and schedule the time at ECS, then you can just have them call me and I'll put it on my CC.
ah i didnt look to the left to see your type of car.

your giving me motivation to get this done, and its going to be a beautiful weekend too!

i should have the last part i need tomorrow. getting it back from the machine shop.

its a 1/4" plate of aluminum as a block off plate for the IACV and my crazy idea to make this work.

whats your opinion on the evap purge solenoid and the air assist solenoid for my car?

i was going to plumb the hoses to a vac line on the intake manifold, just as long as i can do i think i might be ok.

i will post up more pics tomorrow. again, thank you for this opportunity!
00LGTP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2010, 10:59 PM   #44
00LGTP
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 172618
Join Date: Feb 2008
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Vehicle:
2000 RS
BRP

Default

just need to extend 2 wires and im done.
all ready to bolt up to a ej251





00LGTP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2010, 11:23 PM   #45
williaty
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 71092
Join Date: Sep 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Delaware County, Ohio
Vehicle:
2005 2.5RS Wagon
Regal Blue Pearl

Default

Interesting how extreme the runner length difference is.
williaty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2010, 11:23 PM   #46
BAN SUVS
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 28685
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Reno, Nevada
Vehicle:
2004 FXT 4EAT
very STi'd

Default

So what are you doing with the camera??? Get those wires done and slap that thing in!
BAN SUVS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2010, 11:28 PM   #47
00LGTP
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 172618
Join Date: Feb 2008
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Vehicle:
2000 RS
BRP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BAN SUVS View Post
So what are you doing with the camera??? Get those wires done and slap that thing in!

im trying not to temp my self to electrical tape the wires together. i dont have the supplies ATM
00LGTP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2010, 11:57 PM   #48
BAN SUVS
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 28685
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Reno, Nevada
Vehicle:
2004 FXT 4EAT
very STi'd

Default

Fair enough.
BAN SUVS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2010, 11:58 PM   #49
T Wrex--OH
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 179478
Join Date: May 2008
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Cleveland<OH>
Vehicle:
2000 Impreza 2.5 RS
Sedona Red Pearl

Default

I'm definetely liking this thread better than the one you just made on RS25, ha ha. Really wanna know if there's gains to be had here.
T Wrex--OH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2010, 12:01 AM   #50
williaty
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 71092
Join Date: Sep 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Delaware County, Ohio
Vehicle:
2005 2.5RS Wagon
Regal Blue Pearl

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by T Wrex--OH View Post
I'm definetely liking this thread better than the one you just made on RS25, ha ha. Really wanna know if there's gains to be had here.
What happened over there? FalconRS get his panties in a twist?
williaty is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wanted - 04/05 wrx project car bossautosports Private 'Wanted' Classifieds 0 01-27-2010 05:54 PM
05 sti project, soon on 18x9.5 rota grids stilv Member's Car Gallery 88 09-25-2009 04:04 PM
05 sti project car.. only 25k miles! michsti Private Vehicle 'For Sale' Classifieds 1 07-13-2009 03:06 PM
Reverse Intake Manifold Project dunk Mid Atlantic Impreza Club -- MAIC 78 01-01-2009 11:36 AM
SoCal: 02-05 manifold, TGV's, injectors, throttle body, engine harness, turbo inlet MannyMohawk#5 Engine/Power/Exhaust 26 01-29-2008 11:25 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2015 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2015, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.