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Old 09-11-2010, 01:40 PM   #1
dux10
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Default To those of you with decent 60' times (sub 2.0)

*********!!!!!!!!!!UPDATE POST# 23!!!!!!!!!!**********



Car:
2002 WRX Wagon
3380lbs w/driver
205/55/15 Falken ZE912's inflated to roughly 32psi
SPT intake
Catless UP
BPM catless TBE
Brand new Exedy OE replacement clutch (1100 miles on it)
Perrin MBC (~15-16psi)
Perrin crank pulley
AP rear pitch mount
Group N trans mount
Perrin DLS and SLS

Times:
60'.........2.0xx
1/4mi......14.22
mph........94.5-95
end result:

Ambient temp:
93*

Launch technique:
I tried 5000, 5200, and 5500ish rpm all with the same procedure. Set the revs and then quickly (as fast as possible without side-stepping it) come off the clutch while simulantiously flooring it. At 5k it bogged. At 5200 it bogged a little less. At 5500 (might have been closer to 6k) i got some front wheelspeen (really brief).
I shifted to 2nd @7k and then every gear after that around 6500. I tried 6200, but i lost a mph or so. I was shifting pretty quick, but my 1-2 shift could of been a smidge quicker (i'm terrified of killing second gear. I've read too many horror stories on here. lol)

Questions:
How are you guys gettin your 1.7-1.8 or even 1.9 sixty foot times?!?!
And where are you guys shifting at?
Finally, is the high ambient temperature playing a huge factor in my horrid times, or not really?
Open to any advice from those of you who have been at this for awhile.
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Last edited by dux10; 09-18-2010 at 04:21 AM.
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Old 09-11-2010, 01:45 PM   #2
Paul
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are you just holding the revs at 5k or are you blipping the throttle to around 5k? You want to be blipping it cause that helps build boost better then just holding the throttle at a certian rpm
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Old 09-11-2010, 01:51 PM   #3
dux10
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hmmmm... didn't think about that... I'm pretty much holding a constant rpm before coming off the clutch.
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Old 09-11-2010, 08:03 PM   #4
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Get it tuned.
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Old 09-11-2010, 08:25 PM   #5
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slip the clutch off the launch as well.. i was cutting high 1.6s to high 1.7s on my sti when it was bone stock.. also youll need some more power so a tune would help.. throttle blipping and slip the clutch a little and youll be golden

-Stu
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Old 09-11-2010, 08:27 PM   #6
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also ive ALWAYS cut worse 60fts with a lightweight pulley.. you lose torque
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Old 09-11-2010, 09:14 PM   #7
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look at it like this in a turbo car there's 2 main types of launch control
1. Anti-Lag: Which is death to the turbo but it works! Anti-Lag actually make the car think its underload so it makes full boost just sitting there at the light.
2. Launch Control: (Mypreference) Launch Control is a lot safer if you do it right. I set my launch control to 5500 exactly. Launch control basically bounces the motor off of a specified rpm. That however does not build boost. All it does is elimate the vaccuum. Which means as soon as the motor feels load (as soon as the clutch comes out an inch) you start making boost. I raced the irwindale 1/8 mile track and i did
60' - 1.6s
ET - 8.3s
MPH - 85mph

TRUST ME THAT LAUNCH TO DO A 1.6s 60' is scary. the first run i used launch control it pulled my foot off the gas because i wasn't ready to be thrown into the back seat yet!! haha... its just all in your opinion.

Also i met ALI AFSHAR at irwindale and he was explaining to me that to launch well w/out launch control you have to get the rpm between 4-6k and rev it between there as fast as you can with your foot and the "pull your foot off like you stepped in something." its not a side step it's more a oh dammit and pull your foot off.

Sorry lot of words. Hope it helps you!!!!
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Old 09-11-2010, 09:53 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BronsonW View Post
2. Launch Control: (Mypreference) Launch Control is a lot safer if you do it right. I set my launch control to 5500 exactly. Launch control basically bounces the motor off of a specified rpm. That however does not build boost. All it does is elimate the vaccuum. Which means as soon as the motor feels load (as soon as the clutch comes out an inch) you start making boost. I raced the irwindale 1/8 mile track and i did
60' - 1.6s
ET - 8.3s
MPH - 85mph
!!
pardon my ignorance. so this launch control thing being talked about lately is not something that can be done on an automatic tranny car? I know a bunch of flamers are gonna say something like, "how hard is it to launch an automatic?" well, i have only one leg. I pump the brake and rev the engine with the same foot and launch on boost. This is not something i can do easily or consistently and i'm sure to get that red light a few times at the track for overpowering my brakes. I have a built tranny, but it doesn't have a tranny lock. maybe i need someone to help me build a line lock button.
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Old 09-11-2010, 10:02 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OVeRBOOSTn View Post
also ive ALWAYS cut worse 60fts with a lightweight pulley.. you lose torque
This, same with a light flywheel. The rotating mass has less inertia and loses more of its momentum when the clutch starts engaging; also since there is less load on the engine with the clutch disengaged you make less boost with the clutch disengaged
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Old 09-11-2010, 11:02 PM   #10
BronsonW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by autowagon View Post
pardon my ignorance. so this launch control thing being talked about lately is not something that can be done on an automatic tranny car? I know a bunch of flamers are gonna say something like, "how hard is it to launch an automatic?" well, i have only one leg. I pump the brake and rev the engine with the same foot and launch on boost. This is not something i can do easily or consistently and i'm sure to get that red light a few times at the track for overpowering my brakes. I have a built tranny, but it doesn't have a tranny lock. maybe i need someone to help me build a line lock button.
that sounds like a great idea... my buddy has a drag bug and he actually uses line lock to hold his car from rolling forward when he is on the line. and obviously for the burnout...
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1KFZuymrpw[/youtube]
that video is him on 8psi
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Old 09-11-2010, 11:31 PM   #11
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you dont need launch control with such a small turbo.

step 1: set tires at 27psi+/-
step 2: prestage (light up first yellow light)
step 3: let out the clutch untill its a couple hairs from catching and hold it there.
step 4: stage (second yellow light). slowly enguage clutch to scoot up a couple inches and put it back to your hold spot.
step 5: blip the throttle as quickly as you can. With your mods and no tuning I have no idea how much boost your making and at what rpm. I'd probably blip throttle starting at 5krpm
step 6: when its go time make sure to enguage the clutch when one of your blips has the throttle to the floor. doing this too fast and you will bog. Doing this too slow and you burn the clutch and risk glazing. Finding the perfect middle ground takes practice, just keep in mind a clutch is cheaper than a transmission.

BTW you need that thing tuned badly. You will probably knock off about a second with a good quality tune and some practice. You can probably pick up a v1 AccessPort for cheap and invest in a protune.
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Old 09-12-2010, 12:05 AM   #12
KMFDM
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On my td04 I pulled pretty constant 1.5's and 1.6's at 90+ degree temperatures here in Florida. I sit right in the groove at the track. I blip the throttle to keep it at around 5,000 and hold it at 5,000 for just the very last second before launching. Meanwhile I have my foot on the gas just a little bit to keep it at 5,000 and the clutch where if I let it out just a tiny bit I'm rolling.

Light turns green - > Mash the gas and let off the clutch, just slightly slower than I mash on the gas so it is dragging a little bit.

It is hard to describe over the internet, would be much easier in person!! arght! haha

Then again my 2.5 may have a little more grunt to propel me to 1.5 second 60fts. On the td04 I drag out first and second to redline, and shift a little early in 3rd and 4th if necessary to use since the td04 falls on its face at high rpm in later gears. I know your pain. I'm teaching myself to launch on a 20g and soon a 30r.....whole different ballgame and best I got so far is a 1.9....
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Old 09-13-2010, 09:54 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by autowagon View Post
pardon my ignorance. so this launch control thing being talked about lately is not something that can be done on an automatic tranny car? I know a bunch of flamers are gonna say something like, "how hard is it to launch an automatic?" well, i have only one leg. I pump the brake and rev the engine with the same foot and launch on boost. This is not something i can do easily or consistently and i'm sure to get that red light a few times at the track for overpowering my brakes. I have a built tranny, but it doesn't have a tranny lock. maybe i need someone to help me build a line lock button.
Yep, just put a line lock on the brakes, probably will need 2 line locks one for front and one for rear. Pump the brakes, hold the line lock button. Brakes are now locked. Switch your foot to the gas and hold the rpms as high as you can get them without the car pushing through the brakes. Let off the button and floor it simultaneously to launch.
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Old 09-13-2010, 10:01 AM   #14
OppositeLock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMFDM View Post
On my td04 I pulled pretty constant 1.5's and 1.6's at 90+ degree temperatures here in Florida.
Can you post vids? Was this on the stock trans?
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Old 09-13-2010, 01:06 PM   #15
BenGSX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BronsonW View Post
look at it like this in a turbo car there's 2 main types of launch control
1. Anti-Lag: Which is death to the turbo but it works! Anti-Lag actually make the car think its underload so it makes full boost just sitting there at the light.
2. Launch Control: (Mypreference) Launch Control is a lot safer if you do it right. I set my launch control to 5500 exactly. Launch control basically bounces the motor off of a specified rpm. That however does not build boost. All it does is elimate the vaccuum. Which means as soon as the motor feels load (as soon as the clutch comes out an inch) you start making boost.
Antilag systems retard the timing to the point that the exhaust valves are opening before the spark even fires (or during combustion) - dumping raw fuel into the exhaust and then burning it at or just before the turbo essentially..

2 step launch control does build boost...... On my 68hta I can build 15psi on the line..

If you watch the boost gauge in this video (farthest left on the dash pod) you will see it building boost quite clearly.. I launched a little early off the 2step here - boost was still rising, and i was taking it easy on the launch.. Stock 5 speed trapping mid 119's = bad juju. This is a 1.7x launch @ 5krpm. With my lightweight flywheel my launch should probably be well over 6krpm if I wasn't in drivetrain preservation mode.



At the OP - you sound like you are coming off the clutch a bit too quick. - If you come off the clutch too quickly RPM's will drop too low and you will fall back out of the spool on your turbo.. You need to slip the clutch enough that your turbo picks up and gets you transitioned off the line.. The above launch is practically bogged / pretty damned close to it with such a lightweight flywheel..

Last edited by BenGSX; 09-13-2010 at 05:20 PM.
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Old 09-13-2010, 04:35 PM   #16
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i'll watch the video later as i'm at work.
I havent posted again in this thread but i have been reading what everybody has to say. I appreciate the input and will be trying different techniques this friday night.
ThanX again guys!
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Old 09-13-2010, 04:57 PM   #17
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I average 1.74-1.8 60's when I go to the track, my best so far was a 1.67.
Ots stage 2 map, 18" oz wheels, 225/40-18 Dunlop star specs.
I hold rpms at 4500 and apply throttle as I release clutch. You get a pefect match of slip and no wheel spin. Pulls out great.

I was at beaver springs the one day that blouch turbo was holding an event there. They asked me what I was doing to get the car to leave so hard. I told him and the look on his face was priceless when he found out it was without launch control. I was pulling 1.73-1.76 60's that day.

That "bliping" does nothing for me but screw everything up. Very hard to get concistant starts "bliping" the throttle if you ask me.

Ashfar advice? Back in the day (before the julie days) his starts were horrible, I loved watching that car but it would only make it down the track about 50% of the time. I guess when you make 1000hp that tends to happen. Lol
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Old 09-13-2010, 05:27 PM   #18
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I use tinywrex's launch control patch... set it at 6000+- 100rpm.

Twin scroll 83/75 borg warner on a 2.5L. Clutch is Carbonetic twin
(I'm car number 1182)



I built around 5 psi on the 11.48 run, and didn't heat the clutch up enough and ended up with 1.69 60 foot.

Next run I heated up the clutch a lot more, and sat on the two step and got like 8 psi or so off the line, and that netted the 1.58 60 foot. I missed 3rd gear on the 1.58 60 foot run though.

This is on Destudded Cooper weathermaster ST2s lol. 225 45 17 size.
I also did a 4 wheel peel/burnout after the burnout box to get the tires sticky again.
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Old 09-13-2010, 06:31 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed View Post
Get it tuned.
chaching!

on my stage 2 bugeye with a 5 speed Ive ran 1.64 60's and i thought for sure the 5 speed would let loose and it still hasnt after being ran in 3 different cars. Practice makes perfect and the throttle blip works great as does lc if you have a tune
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Old 09-13-2010, 10:55 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMFDM View Post
On my td04 I pulled pretty constant 1.5's and 1.6's at 90+ degree temperatures here in Florida.

Slips or it didn't happen.


OP: the first time I took my car to a track ever I ran 1.8 60' with an ET of 13.6. Untuned with a Perrin dp with a high flow cat catless uppipe mbc @ 18 psi and a sri. It's do-able. If you care, here is my procedure. Stage, blip as (everyone says) around 5.5k the moment the 3rd yellow light pull your foot back as fast as you can (better rt's). Untill it's tuned shift around 6500 cuz your powerband drops off pretty hard up there. Any just my .02

Last edited by neversummer489; 09-13-2010 at 11:08 PM.
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Old 09-14-2010, 09:53 PM   #21
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tried increasing your tire pressure?
as some others have said: more revs, and make sure you're BUILDING boost as you lift off the clutch.
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Old 09-14-2010, 11:22 PM   #22
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bump!

Last edited by KB'izzle; 09-15-2010 at 02:19 PM.
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Old 09-18-2010, 04:17 AM   #23
dux10
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thanx a bunch guys! i went back last night and only made one pass. as i pulled up to collect my time slip, the lady asked if i had a helmet. i was ecstatic!! “did i need a helmet for that pass???!!! am i quick enough to need a helmet???!!!!" lol
i ran a [email protected] mph with a better (but still improvable) sixty foot of 1.9 seconds.
i did what most of you suggested and blipped the throttle between 4-5k slipped the clutch a bit to build some boost ( i think i slipped it a tad too much), and took off.
again, i appreciate the advice and will be going back in a few weeks to perfect the technique!!!
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Old 09-18-2010, 08:50 AM   #24
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i cut 1.6's pretty often, with 265/35/18 star specs inflated at about 34lbs front and 32 rear.

I get up to the line and rev the car on and off getting a nice 4-6k rpm "sweep", ive noticed when i drop the clutch at like 5500 its crucial being on the upsweep. Ill spin tires right off the line then the car will take off like a bat out of hell, and sometimes when i grab 2nd ill chirp them too

I think your tires 205's and 2.0l play a big roll in you not being able to cut a good 60"
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Old 09-18-2010, 09:03 AM   #25
dux10
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^^^ its getting better. if i can get it down to 1.8 (or better yet, high1.7s) AND do it cosistently, i'll be extremely happy.
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