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Old 05-17-2010, 06:30 PM   #1
gonmaro
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Default 2.2L build questions

I did have 400 whp goals for this motor but im gonna be more conservative with it and go no more than 350 bhp. Now a few questions;

-I want to use STI internals (crank and rods) but I assume i have to find pistons to use with the STI crank since it is 4mm longer? I have to buy pistons anyways because im gonna bore it to 97.5mm to clean up the cylinder walls.

-Is the 2.2L crank with STi rods strong enough to handle that power?

-What heads should i use, WRX or 2.5L/STI? I heard there's an issue with the 2.5L heads. Which head gasket do i use? Remember it'll be bored 0.020" over also.

All help is greatly appreciated
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Old 05-17-2010, 08:57 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by gonmaro View Post
I did have 400 whp goals for this motor but im gonna be more conservative with it and go no more than 350 bhp. Now a few questions;

-I want to use STI internals (crank and rods) but I assume i have to find pistons to use with the STI crank since it is 4mm longer? I have to buy pistons anyways because im gonna bore it to 97.5mm to clean up the cylinder walls.

-Is the 2.2L crank with STi rods strong enough to handle that power?

-What heads should i use, WRX or 2.5L/STI? I heard there's an issue with the 2.5L heads. Which head gasket do i use? Remember it'll be bored 0.020" over also.

All help is greatly appreciated
You will want to get custom pistons to acheive your target compression ratio with what ever cylinder heads you are going to use. STI crank will work but don't forget the thrust bearing is in a different location between the STI crank and the EJ22 case.

I would think that the EJ22 crank is capable of handling that power but STI rods will not fit on a phase I crank because the rod journals are different sizes.


STI pistons will not work because they are a bigger bore so unless you plan on sleeving you will have to order custom pistons.

Figure out what cylinder heads you are going to use and decide a target CR . After you do that you can have custom pistons made for your build.
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Old 05-17-2010, 09:08 PM   #3
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I would think that the EJ22 crank is capable of handling that power but STI rods will not fit on a phase I crank because the rod journals are different sizes.
not true. ONLY phase 1 EJ25 cranks are 48mm journals.

However for clarification OP, are we talking stroking an EJ20 or stroking and EJ22?
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Old 05-17-2010, 10:19 PM   #4
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Yep, the 96-98 ej25d had the only 48mm rod journals, his ej22 crankshaft is 52mm and will bolt to the sti rods. Amazingly even the 93 1.8 had 52. You can run the ej22 crank, suby cranks are stout. I'm not sure on 2.5l heads, finding a set of ej20k or ej20r would be a better idea to have a closer match for the combustion chamber.
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Old 05-17-2010, 10:28 PM   #5
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What upper half are you going to run with??? As in.... what car is this going into. ECU/harness/intake manifold/heads goes together.
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Old 05-17-2010, 11:04 PM   #6
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It's most likely gonna go in a WRX bugeye and It a EJ22 block. how do you get the STI crank in the 2.2 block?

Last edited by gonmaro; 05-17-2010 at 11:25 PM.
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Old 05-17-2010, 11:25 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by gonmaro View Post
It's most likely gonna go in a WRX bugeye and It a EJ22 block
So an open deck?


Keep it simple with the build. stock crank, STi rods, custom pistons with desired CR. Don't go 97.5mm if you don't need to. Save as much sleeve as you can.
Have the block machined to take #5 thrust bearing.



Gotta know what you're doing with EJ22 builds. Gotta know your parts. Then it's all simple after that.

Last edited by FuJi K; 05-17-2010 at 11:33 PM.
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Old 05-18-2010, 01:07 AM   #8
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I'm still ineed of a piston solution for my ej22e
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Old 05-18-2010, 01:12 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by FuJi K View Post
So an open deck?


Keep it simple with the build. stock crank, STi rods, custom pistons with desired CR. Don't go 97.5mm if you don't need to. Save as much sleeve as you can.
Have the block machined to take #5 thrust bearing.

Gotta know what you're doing with EJ22 builds. Gotta know your parts. Then it's all simple after that.

Psh, go whatever bore you want, get it tuned!
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Old 05-18-2010, 01:51 AM   #10
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Psh, go whatever bore you want, get it tuned!
crack or oval a sleeve and you'll know why it did it. quit BS-ing.
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Old 05-18-2010, 02:05 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
not true. ONLY phase 1 EJ25 cranks are 48mm journals.

However for clarification OP, are we talking stroking an EJ20 or stroking and EJ22?
Yeah I remember this now. I would use the stock crank and STI rods or machine #5 for thrust and custom pistons.
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Old 05-18-2010, 02:23 AM   #12
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Im doing a similar build in my STi. I have an EJ22 that I had sleeved and bored to 99.75 to use a set of Crawford STi pistons. I recommend sleeving it. It will be owrth it in the long run. I used an 09 STi crank and had it machined to a thrust position 5. Make sure you get the correct connecting rods. I had a set of STi style eagle rods and they were too short. The 22 case is a bit longer than the 25 case. Learn from my mistake on that one.
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Old 05-18-2010, 02:33 AM   #13
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he only wants 350bhp. I don't think sleeving is necessary for this amount of power. For his application I think the stock crank and STI rods would be ideal. I wouldn't cost much and everything would go together really easily. Sure the stroker route is cool but it gets complicated and is much more expensive. Especially when sleeved.
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Old 05-18-2010, 02:58 AM   #14
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Make sure you get the correct connecting rods. I had a set of STi style eagle rods and they were too short. The 22 case is a bit longer than the 25 case. Learn from my mistake on that one.
so what rods did you use with the 2.2 block? i thought all the rods were the same or did you use an older 2.2?

Im definatley not going sleeved, not needed. also its not goin to run that much power all the time, its gonna be low boost until i hit the track or whenever i need it. I gotta get it bored over because the block has some miles on it and new rings are at the maximum clearance. The car will be running E85 so the risk of cracking a block due to pre-ignition is greatly reduced

my main problem is that i cant seem to find 2.2 head gaskets with a 97.5 bore.
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Old 05-18-2010, 08:55 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by FuJi K View Post
So an open deck?


Keep it simple with the build. stock crank, STi rods, custom pistons with desired CR. Don't go 97.5mm if you don't need to. Save as much sleeve as you can.
Have the block machined to take #5 thrust bearing.
Gotta know what you're doing with EJ22 builds. Gotta know your parts. Then it's all simple after that.
Then comes the tuning lol. Fuji, where did you get your block machined? The local shops won't do it for me and I'm debating doing that in my ej25d. Did they just take the width measurement from the #3 thrust position and transfer it over to #5, cutting the same amount from each side of the block?
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Old 05-18-2010, 11:58 AM   #16
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Then comes the tuning lol. Fuji, where did you get your block machined? The local shops won't do it for me and I'm debating doing that in my ej25d. Did they just take the width measurement from the #3 thrust position and transfer it over to #5, cutting the same amount from each side of the block?
I got it machined at a shop that build custom engines. They work on many different engine from Honda's to old carb'd V8's and boat motors etc.

http://www.dgmotors.biz/



They had an EJ205 block sitting and I told them to just replicate the #5 thrust bearing on that block. Very simple. If you look at mine, it's cut via machine in the back, then in the inside, just grinded away material via drill cut machine? and that's it. Very simple and it allows the thrust bearing to work like it should. This was done because it was hard to fit the drilling bit through the mains if the halves where bolted together. If I had a machine, I'd do this all day!!!!



The Headgasket .... I use 97-98 EJ22E specific. It's a multilayer metal HG; 3layer like WRX/STi. I think I may still have the used HG in the basement. I'll go find it and measure it.
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Old 05-18-2010, 12:19 PM   #17
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I'm still ineed of a piston solution for my ej22e
so contact someone who does custom pistons
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Old 05-18-2010, 02:01 PM   #18
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crack or oval a sleeve and you'll know why it did it. quit BS-ing.
how am i bsing?
if he wants to, let him, dummy

and dgmotor ftl, f-them
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Old 05-18-2010, 02:22 PM   #19
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how am i bsing?
if he wants to, let him, dummy

and dgmotor ftl, f-them
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuJi K View Post
Don't go 97.5mm if you don't need to. Save as much sleeve as you can.
might as well go 100mm while he's at it
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Old 05-18-2010, 02:49 PM   #20
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I went with cometic gaskets on my EJ22e Hybrid
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Old 05-18-2010, 04:17 PM   #21
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I went with cometic gaskets on my EJ22e Hybrid
did you have it bored .020" over?
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Old 05-18-2010, 04:50 PM   #22
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might as well go 100mm while he's at it
If he wants to, then that's up to him lol
gonna cry if he does?
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Old 05-18-2010, 05:25 PM   #23
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Let the damn machine shop inspect the block and decide if it just needs a hone or an over bore.
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Old 05-18-2010, 05:44 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by gonmaro View Post
so what rods did you use with the 2.2 block? i thought all the rods were the same or did you use an older 2.2?

Im definatley not going sleeved, not needed. also its not goin to run that much power all the time, its gonna be low boost until i hit the track or whenever i need it. I gotta get it bored over because the block has some miles on it and new rings are at the maximum clearance. The car will be running E85 so the risk of cracking a block due to pre-ignition is greatly reduced

my main problem is that i cant seem to find 2.2 head gaskets with a 97.5 bore.

I got to look at the sheet again. I was already deplyoed to Iraq by the time the rod length became an issue. I know we had standard STi length rods were too short. I have pics somewhere. Ill see if I can dig them out.

As for the headgasket question, Im pretty sure 2.5 head gaskets will work. If Im wrong please chuime in and let me know. I havent started building mine yet due to being in Iraq still but this will be and issue when I get home in 2 months.
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Old 05-18-2010, 05:57 PM   #25
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A 79mm crank with STI (5.138") rods will leave you about 0.025" under the deck in a EJ22t. It will also expose part of the oil control ring to the wrist pin service hole although I have heard mixed feeling about this. Most people don't think it is a big deal including my builder. Still custom pistons are the way to go.
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