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Old 06-25-2002, 12:33 PM   #1
Jessie James
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Question Looking for a Radar Expert Witness in CO

Okay,

So I am going to court to fight a speeding ticket I got, and the officer was using a radar gun. And we all know that radar is 15% inaccurate, so I would like to find someone who could be considered an expert witness that I could being to court with me. I assume there has to be someone who either works with the things all the time, or undertands the principles of traffic radar, or something.

Any thoughts (or volunteers ) on where to find such a person?

Court date is July 15th (unless they move it like they want to at this point...)
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Old 06-25-2002, 12:37 PM   #2
cnk
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You should probably post the entire story of what happened, how fast you were going, weather conditions, time of day, etc. Then maybe some of us can help you out. You could also try posting in the regional forums.

Calvin
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Old 06-25-2002, 02:16 PM   #3
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Careful; an expert will likely say that the radar usually under-reads due to the angle it hits your vehicle at when the cop is positioned at the side of the road or in the median. I doubt they will throw out the ticket based upon any expert testimony that radar is inaccurate, otherwise no speeding tickets would ever be upheld. Your best hope is that (a) You have some solid grounds for proving that this particular radar gun was faulty or that the cop used it improperly, or (b) the cop doesn't turn up to court (more likely).

If you challenge (and lose), you forfeit the 'plea bargain' where they cut your points in half and reduce it to a non-moving violation.

If you took the points, would it mean suspension of your license? If not, suck it up and take your medicine, and be more careful in the future (speed by all means, but don't get caught).

-Pace
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Old 06-25-2002, 04:49 PM   #4
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James,
Habitual offender is what we call people like you. Were you run out of California or did you leave of your own free will ?

Mark
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Old 06-25-2002, 05:59 PM   #5
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See if they have the current caliblration certificates. A friend of mine in Georgia and 4000 others got off because it was discovered they had been expired for 3 months. not much, but worth a try if your serious.
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Old 06-25-2002, 06:19 PM   #6
pace
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tangmere
James,
Habitual offender is what we call people like you. Were you run out of California or did you leave of your own free will ?

Mark
Which 'James' are you referring to? Can't be me; I was run out of England, not CA.

-Pace
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Old 06-26-2002, 12:54 AM   #7
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i got a ticket last year in minnesota... my plea bargain was like this. pay the full amount, dont get convicted in a year, and it doesnt show up on your driving record. if you are convicted within a year, both show up....

i gotta goto court agian, for another one.... it was after a year so my record shouldnt show the other one last year

www.paynofine.com/e/
see if this link helps
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Old 06-26-2002, 11:28 AM   #8
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Pace,
I was referring to RS25.com, he's called James. And I'm from England too, came over here in '73 (yes, I'm that old). What part are you from?

Mark
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Old 06-26-2002, 03:03 PM   #9
pace
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tangmere
Pace,
I was referring to RS25.com, he's called James. And I'm from England too, came over here in '73 (yes, I'm that old). What part are you from?

Mark
Before I moved here I spent half my life in the Shrewsbury area and half in various London suburbs.

You?

-Pace
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Old 06-26-2002, 04:01 PM   #10
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Born in London, lived for a while in Windsor, then Fleet (near Andover), then to here. In between all that I also lived in Kuwait, Germany and Lebanon. Got a load of family in Somerset and some in Wales, originally they're all from Shipton Bellinger (a village near Tidworth, Hants).

Mark
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Old 06-26-2002, 06:16 PM   #11
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Default Completely off the subject...

Interesting....I was born in Maidenhead!

BTW your brother is looking good on the mountain. Can't believe he hasn't raced on the dirt before. Top three I think with out seeing the official times.
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Old 06-26-2002, 07:30 PM   #12
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Maidenhead... Always thought that was an odd name. Isn't that also what you call a woman's virginity? Regardless, Rupert, we were almost neighbors! The Maidenhead bypass was just below our house in Windsor.

You say my brother is 3rd, is that overall or in class? And where can I find up to date results?

Thanks, Mark
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Old 06-26-2002, 08:30 PM   #13
rupertberr
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Default Positions

I was talking to Paul when one of his crew members came up and said that the team was second and third fastest in Open Wheel behind David Donner. I didn't catch the order between the two. Probably only the two Swedish drivers have a chance to be faster in the Unlimited Class. The 800bhp SAAB and the RS200 both look pretty wicked and are being driven well. www.ppihc.com has some info under press releases.

Yes, well, anyway... Maidenhead is not the most manly of names...

Would run up to Windsor all the time. Moved here when I was very young. Still have family and friends out there. Saw a few on my epic voyage to Le Mans.

When are you coming up to the Mountain?

PS speeding tickets suck (trying to say something on topic!)
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Old 06-27-2002, 01:59 AM   #14
Jessie James
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I've actually got the Pay No Fine book, and it's informative. However, www.Motorists.com has a legal defense kit that looks like it might be pretty comprehensive.

Story?

First, no, I am not a habitual offender, in fact I have a perfect driving record, and I want to keep it that way. Insurance is bad enough driving a RS and a Typhoon, why should I pay more? I've never caused an accident.

Anyway, coming back from the April 21st SCCA event in my RS I was heading down Quincy in Aurora (Eastbound) and got hit by a cop on the side of the road. He was using radar, but as soon as I saw him he dropped his gun down and pointed at me, hit the lights, so I pulled over. Kind of uneventful, but I have several points of contention that I am going to fight:
  • There were three cars behind me; who did he clock with that radar?
  • How long did he clock me for? 1 second, 3-5?
  • Did he visually esitmate my speed prior to timing me?
  • How far away was he when he first saw me (I crested a hill)
  • Can he prove beyond a resonable doubt that he did not clock someone going the other way?
  • If I was going down hill, and he clocked me going 56 down to 53, what's to say he did not clock someone going UP hill the other way (naturally they would be slowing down)
  • Was his radar gun 100% accurate, or was it affected by CB, electrical, or other interferance?
  • When he stopped clocking me and pointed the gun towards the ground, did that affect the reading?
  • Was he profiling my car (he checked all my headlights and signals - W T F?)?

There are a few issues, and as far as I am concerned if he cannot 100% prove it was me he clocked, then I cannot be proven guilty. I plan on taking a LOT fo time in that court room and asking him a LOT of questions.

In fact, I am going to subpeona the repair records for his patrol car and radar gun, as well as find out what make and model the radar gun is. If there are lots of records, the gun may have been defective. If none, then same thing. There are hundreds of issues at stake with radar tickets (laser, too) and I have fought every ticket.

Even if I lose, and have to pay my fine and get double the points, at least I get the satisfaction of costing the city much more time and money than a normal person would have.

Yes, I am hard-core when it comes to tickets, hence why I have a perfect record....
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Old 07-12-2002, 03:30 PM   #15
pace
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tangmere
Maidenhead... Always thought that was an odd name. Isn't that also what you call a woman's virginity? Regardless, Rupert, we were almost neighbors! The Maidenhead bypass was just below our house in Windsor.
..
I used to live in Middlesex. That one always gets a few guffaws.

-Pace
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Old 07-13-2002, 11:32 PM   #16
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...
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Old 07-18-2002, 01:09 PM   #17
thimages
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Forget about fighting this.

You were busted by the Aurora P.D.

They use LIDAR (Laser) not Radar, and the Aurora D/A doesn't care squat.

It's a roving revenue generator. The BEST you can do is plea the points... because if you try to fight it, you will lose and get stuck with the full points.

Hal

Last edited by thimages; 07-18-2002 at 10:08 PM.
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Old 07-20-2002, 01:12 AM   #18
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Cool - that means I can go to Aurora and test my Lidatek LIDAR jammer, which fires a laser beam right back at them and they have to wait 60 seconds to try nabbing you before their laser cools down.

Plenty of time to slow down
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Old 07-20-2002, 12:25 PM   #19
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Larry,

Do you mind if I ask you where you got your laser jammer at? I was just about to start looking into one of those.

Thanks.
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Old 07-20-2002, 05:46 PM   #20
Tangmere
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And Larry, if you're one of, or the only car on the road and this happens, rest assured you will be pulled over and they'll go over your car with a fine tooth comb. Plus, you'll probably get a ticket for obstructing a police officer in the performance of his duty (messing with his LIDAR).

Mark
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Old 07-20-2002, 05:54 PM   #21
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I have begun to wonder whether that is a real concern. Of all the pi$$ing & moaning & BS that goes on in the i-club, I do not recall ever hearing of someone even saying that they knew someone who knew someone ... that had that happen to them.

It seems to me that it could, but if the jammer is turned off promptly so that the officer can get a fair reading ... then there is ample room for some self doubt on his part that he might have miss aimed it. I have no idea, just my $.02 worth to waste some bandwidth.
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Old 07-21-2002, 02:03 AM   #22
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Tangmere,

The laser is regulated by the FDA not FCC and I don't think the police can do anything about me with a laser, that's their tough luck. They can fire their LIDAR once every 60 seconds for 5 second bursts, so when it fails to read, they can get a reading 60 seconds later, and I am already slowed down. I can reach under the dash to turn it off for the next reading.

I have my front plate bent at the bottom towards the back, to use as an excuse for the LIDAR failing, and the other big reason is that I am trying to get more cool air to my air water intercooler - the plate is still clearly readable by on-lookers...

I got the LIDATEK in a group by that Glenn Wallace of www.new-impreza.com held, since he lives just down the road from them.
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Old 07-21-2002, 07:43 PM   #23
Jessie James
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Yes, laser jammers are legal in CO, because they are regulated by the FDA, not the FCC. Radar jammers are illegal on a Federal level. Of course, those are just the "active" ones. Passive ones don't work, though, so who cares about them.
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