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Old 09-24-2010, 07:10 PM   #1
HipHopFanatic87
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Default 06 + 2.5i's..Are we doomed?!

Hey all, I'm sort of new around here. I have a 2006 2.5i with with a SRI, a catback exhaust, crank pully, short shifter, eibach racing springs, and some non performance mods...

Anyways, I just left my local shop, Speed Concept, after being told "There's really no other mods for your car".

I know I can do delta cams, but I'm still paying on the car for another 2 years. I was trying to avoid ripping the head / block apart for internals if I could. I was told I can get a header but it has to be custom fabricated to fit, and even then, probably wouldn't do much but make it even louder.. PDX Tuning told me a $450 tune would get me 5 whp. I was told replacing the pulleys would have little to no performance increase (aside from the crank pulley that I already have)

Other than that, am I doomed to what I have now? I bought the car when I was 19, and couldn't afford insurance on a WRX. Now, 4 years later, I've done about all I think I can do, I'm honestly getting bored with the car.

Is there any hope for making more power? Or am I doomed?! Thanks for any input

What do you guys think? All the other subie heads I talk to say "shoulda got the wrx!" lol which doesn't help a whole lot in this situation.



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Old 09-24-2010, 07:20 PM   #2
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motor swap?
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Old 09-24-2010, 07:25 PM   #3
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Lol I suppose so huh? What do you suppose that would cost? Say I wanted an Sti swap. Is it a fairly safe and reliable thing? I forgot to mention this is my DD, def. not my weekend drag car haha. I was hoping for a little more low end, some extra pull would make it more fun to drive from A to B, etc.I dont have the garage or the tools to do it at my apartment, and I'm only good with basic mechanics anyway.
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Old 09-24-2010, 07:26 PM   #4
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suspension suspension suspension. honestly i wouldnt have even wasted my time on the engine mods first with a NA 4 cylinder econobox.

imo do suspension next, it will make the car a **** LOAD more fun, and WILL out handle a STi.

by then you will either sell it for something else, or be done paying for the car and do the cams
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Old 09-24-2010, 07:30 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by WhatTurboLag? View Post
suspension suspension suspension. honestly i wouldnt have even wasted my time on the engine mods first with a NA 4 cylinder econobox.

imo do suspension next, it will make the car a **** LOAD more fun, and WILL out handle a STi.

by then you will either sell it for something else, or be done paying for the car and do the cams
Good lookin out, thanks for the feedback. Now, I have eibach racing springs. I suppose I could do struts and sway bars. What else? And I suppose you're right about the fun factor, theres loads of country back roads out here with twists and turns.
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Old 09-24-2010, 07:34 PM   #6
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yes, definitely suspension, struts and sways first before going to the swap route..
but once you get bored again.. lol. and still have plenty of $$$ in the pocket, then maybe u can swap or move up to turbos (wrx, sti)
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Old 09-24-2010, 07:40 PM   #7
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what everyone said. Suspension
Even though I'm only on lowering springs, I highly suggest getting aftermarket struts or coilovers. I've been running on my stock struts with Tein H-techs for almost 4 1/2 years now. I think I'm due for new struts.

Go for some whiteline Front and Rear sways + endlinks, with a set of nice rubbers as well. Test it out at your local autox, ie;
Before and After your suspension mods and you will know how the difference will affect your daily driving. Forget the power mods till later. A tune is highly suggested, but won't net you much unless you crack open the engine and play with it there. You can add an aftermarket turbo, or do engine swap, if money isn't an issue but there are tons of threads on what to do, what not to do, why you shouldn't do it, or why you should.
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Old 09-24-2010, 08:08 PM   #8
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why cant you just turbo the motor you have??
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Old 09-24-2010, 08:26 PM   #9
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what everyone said. Suspension
Even though I'm only on lowering springs, I highly suggest getting aftermarket struts or coilovers. I've been running on my stock struts with Tein H-techs for almost 4 1/2 years now. I think I'm due for new struts.

Go for some whiteline Front and Rear sways + endlinks, with a set of nice rubbers as well. Test it out at your local autox, ie;
Before and After your suspension mods and you will know how the difference will affect your daily driving. Forget the power mods till later. A tune is highly suggested, but won't net you much unless you crack open the engine and play with it there. You can add an aftermarket turbo, or do engine swap, if money isn't an issue but there are tons of threads on what to do, what not to do, why you shouldn't do it, or why you should.
It sounds like our suspensions are similar. Im only on the eibach lowering springs. Just got brand new toyo proxes on so struts and sways are next. As for the tune, I just got off the phone with Rallitek, apparently, they sell the AP for my car and it comes with a number of maps that affect drivability. I suppose this might give me that extra zip Im looking for. Paired with the suspension, it looks like I may be having more fun than I thought. The cams are gonna be about 810 bucks installed, and he says its about 20whp difference which is HUGE for us NA's. Any leads on turbo kits? Or does it have to be put together? Im not too savvy on turbos. How difficult and expensive do you suppose this would be? Money's not a huge issue, I just have to wait a couple months and save up my bonus checks. Im the type of person that'll make a list and check off things as I go. I gotta say, after reading about the suspension, and hearing about the tune, Im feelin like this dude
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Old 09-24-2010, 09:40 PM   #10
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I feel like I've read thread after thread after thread about how headers for 05 and earlier will fit your car, you just need a catpipe/trackpipe for 05 and earlier as well. Getting rid of your cats or replacing them with high flow cats will help a lot, and then a tune would help more.

Turn your short ram into a cold air intake. I got more power switching from SRI to CAI than I did switching from stock to SRI.

Get a lightweight flywheel.

Why are you asking if there's anything more you can do for power? You haven't done anything to increase it as it's sitting
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Old 09-24-2010, 09:42 PM   #11
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And if you wanna go for suspension, I'd suggest at least a rear sway, and make sure you replace the endlinks. Replacing those rubbery plastic stock endlinks with some solid aftermarket ones will do more than just getting a bigger bar.

My Cobb rear sway and kartboy rear endlinks really balanced out my car. I haven't gotten a front yet, but I might someday.
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Old 09-24-2010, 10:03 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by bigrobwoot View Post
I feel like I've read thread after thread after thread about how headers for 05 and earlier will fit your car, you just need a catpipe/trackpipe for 05 and earlier as well. Getting rid of your cats or replacing them with high flow cats will help a lot, and then a tune would help more.

Turn your short ram into a cold air intake. I got more power switching from SRI to CAI than I did switching from stock to SRI.

Get a lightweight flywheel.

Why are you asking if there's anything more you can do for power? You haven't done anything to increase it as it's sitting
I was under the impression that the lightweight crank pulley, the catback exhaust and the sri were mods for power, i must have been mistaken, clearly they're there for cosmetic purposes only, great point! ....
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Old 09-24-2010, 10:03 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by bigrobwoot View Post
And if you wanna go for suspension, I'd suggest at least a rear sway, and make sure you replace the endlinks. Replacing those rubbery plastic stock endlinks with some solid aftermarket ones will do more than just getting a bigger bar.

My Cobb rear sway and kartboy rear endlinks really balanced out my car. I haven't gotten a front yet, but I might someday.
This is a great idea, I'll do some more research and see what I can find.
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Old 09-24-2010, 11:28 PM   #14
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suspension suspension suspension. honestly i wouldnt have even wasted my time on the engine mods first with a NA 4 cylinder econobox.
THIS.

The suspension was the best return on investment on my former Legacy. With bolt-ons, you're just making more noise and burning money you could be saving for a car that has the guts you're looking for.
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Old 09-25-2010, 12:49 AM   #15
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2005 Impreza 2.5RS Wagon in Regal Blue Pearl
Basic Suspension: Full Sedan Front End Conversion, USDM STi Springs, Tokico D-Specs, Paranoid Fabrications 1/4" Saggy Butt Shims, Kartboy F/R Endlinks, Whiteline 22mm Adj RSB, Whiteline QR Rear STB, GT-Spec ALK, Whiteline Max-C Motorsport camber plates, Whiteline KCA313 Roll Center Adjustment Kit, Turn In Concepts Fender Braces
Bushings: Full STi Group N Lateral Link, Trailing Link, and Rear Strut Mount Set, Kartboy Tranny Crossmember, TiC Comfort Rear Diff, Whiteline Steering Rack Bushings, Kartboy Outrigger Bushings, Kartboy Front and Rear Shifter Stay Bushings, TiC 5MT Shifter Pivot Bushing
Brakes: OEM blank rotors, StopTech Street Perofmance, TechnaFit Stainless Steel Brake Lines, ATE Superblue Racing Brake Fluid, TiC Master Cylinder Brace, TiC HTS:Bearing
Competition: Primitive Racing 3/16ths Front Skidplate and Rear Diff Protector, Alfa Club Rally Odometer/Chronometer, Schroth Rallye 4 Quick-Fit Harness for the Navi
Powertrain: Techworks Engineering 4-2-1 High Output Equal Length Headers, Stromung SS 2.25" Midpipe, Group A Performance Lightweight Crank Pulley, Hybrid Silentake, Group A Performance Throttle Body Spacer, RomRaided, Delta Torque Cams, Phenolic Intake Manifold Spacers, ACT Streetlight Flywheel, Group N Engine Mounts
Electronics: Hella Rallye 1000 FF Driving Lights and 500FF Fog Lights, Rear Deck Light Addition, Map Light Addition, Hella Supertones, Innovate Motorsports LC-1 WBO2 w/ XD-16 Display, STRi X-Line Oil Temp and Pressure Gauges, Icom IC-208H, Midland 1001Z, Larsen NMO2/70B and NMO27B, Uniden Bearcat ESP-20 and ESP-5
Rolly Bits: Summer-16" OEM wheels in Dunlop Direzza Z1 Star Specs Winter-16" OEM Wheels in Hankook Icebear W300s Snow- General Altimax Arctics.
Body: Front Grille Center Pillar Delete, DIY Big Assed d@mn Serious Rally Style Mudflaps, Aluminum Hood
ICE: Pioneer DEH-3900MP, Pioneer CD-IB100II iPod Controller, Pioneer TS-D161R 6-1/2" Kevlar 2-Ways
Interior: Kartboy Short Shifter, W.C. Lathewerks Stainless Steel Shifter Extension under a Delrin Sphere Knob with Alcantara Wrap, Sullivan Racing Products Silver Grid Pedal Set, DIY Hypoallergenic Cabin Air Filter, GC-Lock, S204ed Center Console, Obsessive Amounts of RAAMmat and Ensolite
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Old 09-25-2010, 03:35 AM   #16
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^ this man is the champion of the modern NA engines. If he talks, you listen. I've done almost everything you can for power to my car, he's done anything you can imagine for these cars period, from what i've read of his posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HipHopFanatic87 View Post
I was under the impression that the lightweight crank pulley, the catback exhaust and the sri were mods for power, i must have been mistaken, clearly they're there for cosmetic purposes only, great point! ....
Catback doesn't do anything with the cats still in the way. Lightweight crank pulley is nothing compared to a flywheel, and a shortram is barely better than stock. What are you putting down, an extra 3 hp to the wheels?? At least! If you're gonna ask for help, don't be a douche when I offer it.
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Old 09-25-2010, 03:40 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by bigrobwoot View Post
^ this man is the champion of the modern NA engines. If he talks, you listen. I've done almost everything you can for power to my car, he's done anything you can imagine for these cars period, from what i've read of his posts.
I haven't had PnP heads or high-compression pistons in my car yet. I have the parts ready for a build with all that, but then I got laid off. So now the parts are sitting on the shelf trying to get sold so I can afford to keep buying groceries. I've built and tuned engines for other people with them, though.
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Old 09-25-2010, 08:14 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by HipHopFanatic87 View Post
I was under the impression that the lightweight crank pulley, the catback exhaust and the sri were mods for power, i must have been mistaken, clearly they're there for cosmetic purposes only, great point! ....
The catback exhaust makes the car sound different but does essentially nothing for performance. The crank pulley allows the engine to rev marginally quicker, a difference that could probably hardly be measured. And the SRI is (1) sucking in warmer air than the stock intake did, and (2) is most likely causing MAF issues (see the Sticky thread at the top of this forum).

In other words, despite the fact it makes you , bigrobwoot is exactly right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HipHopFanatic87 View Post
I know I can do delta cams, but I'm still paying on the car for another 2 years. I was trying to avoid ripping the head / block apart for internals if I could.
There would be absolutely zero need to pull the heads or do anything internally if you want to replace the cams. And if you truly want to make more power while staying N/A, then replacing the cams is going to be the best return on investment.

Pat Olsen
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Old 09-25-2010, 09:45 AM   #19
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Engine-wise, all I have is an axleback for sound and a grounding kit, which really isn't anything to do with power anyways. Point being, IMO, intakes, exhausts, and such are a waste on Subarus without proper tuning. Sure, my buddy's Acura takes well to them even without tuning, but even then, I don't think it's worth the premium price he paid.

Catbacks net you nothing. Intakes net you nothing unless tuned. You'd have to do the entire exhaust just for a little, which is going to cost you $$$. Cams, ECU work, and more heavy duty things are what NA cars need and a lot of use don't have the downtime, money, or knowledge for that stuff.

This is why I like suspension mods. You can feel them directly. You're not going to blow up your engine by adding something. You can't really mess that much up, as compared to your engine.
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Old 09-25-2010, 02:23 PM   #20
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Catbacks net you nothing. Intakes net you nothing unless tuned. You'd have to do the entire exhaust just for a little, which is going to cost you $$$. Cams, ECU work, and more heavy duty things are what NA cars need and a lot of use don't have the downtime, money, or knowledge for that stuff.
Intake and exhaust do little on our cars compared to their effects on a turbo car, but don't say they do nothing. That's a little misleading. If you don't think they are worth the money, you can say that. I'd disagree haha, but at least then it's not misleading, and it's our opinions.
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Old 09-25-2010, 03:47 PM   #21
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i hear ya op, when i got mine i wanted to do all the mods i could for more power but as much as i didnt wanna hear it my shop told me its pointless. i had the chance to do the ap package when it came out but thanx to my wife that went down the drain. but i do agree bout the suspension part. it makes it a lil more fun to drive cuz i can hang with the wrx's in the twisties. u could do cams but that will give u more torque. its up to you cuz we ran the numbers to build my car and it would be cheaper to swap it, plus u get more kudos turning a 2.5i to a sti
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Old 09-25-2010, 04:19 PM   #22
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I hate when people say "it's pointless". That depends on your goals for the car. If you want WRX power, then yes, it's pointless. If you want a little more power, and you enjoy wrenching on your car, it's not pointless at all.

I enjoyed seeing which mods do what to my powerband, and I also enjoy the faster revs of the lwfw, I enjoy the better shifting of the short shifter and shifter bushings... It's not pointless as long as you realize what you have and what it can and can't be when you're done.
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Old 09-25-2010, 05:19 PM   #23
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I'm with bigrob. Here's the difference between my car when stock and my car with ported heads, cams, CAI, and exhaust:



50% more power at redline is far from "pointless". At VIR I was doing 12-15mph more at the end of the straights than with stock engine. I didn't feel like I was beating the car for no reason as I wound it out through the gears because it actually wanted to pull all the way to redline. Admittedly, the ported heads were expensive, but you would see most of the gains even with the stock heads. And my only tuning was with an S-AFC; those of you with the newer ECUs that can actually be reflashed would have an advantage over me in that respect.

Pat
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Old 09-25-2010, 05:28 PM   #24
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griimspeeds phenolic spacers and throttle body spacers. you will get more low end. Also, cams, head work, pnp / coat your parts. bro there is no end and some of these you can do at home free.

lw flywheel? stage 1 clutch? hi flow cat? dare I say meth or alcohol?
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Old 09-25-2010, 06:32 PM   #25
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I'm with bigrob. Here's the difference between my car when stock and my car with ported heads, cams, CAI, and exhaust:



50% more power at redline is far from "pointless". At VIR I was doing 12-15mph more at the end of the straights than with stock engine. I didn't feel like I was beating the car for no reason as I wound it out through the gears because it actually wanted to pull all the way to redline. Admittedly, the ported heads were expensive, but you would see most of the gains even with the stock heads. And my only tuning was with an S-AFC; those of you with the newer ECUs that can actually be reflashed would have an advantage over me in that respect.

Pat
Why are you even posting DOHC graph readings lol. Anyway it all depends on the route you want to take. If you want to stay N/A I'd do a full built heads swap with cams srpings and retainers which will get you somewhere in the 150-160 but at redline..and idle will be ruff. Or you could like you said do an STI swap but you'll have to get ahold of the engine,tranny(best to use rather than your stocky but can still be used with a good clutch) and rear diffs and axles. Or you could matte a turbo kit together,theres a guy in here that has done it with great results todate on 7 psi. Check the Force-Induction from N/A threads.
Or you could Supercharge your 2.5i like I did and put down somewhere in the 220-210 awhp and be reliable since there are no worries of boost spike,heat that a turbo makes. Bolt on supercharger(centrifugal) from raptorsuperchargers for our cars. Or do it like some did and use a roots vane but is still more DIY than anything else rather tha nbolt on like mine. You will need EM either cobb accessport or open source to tune it or stand alone if you like. YOu will need 380-440cc injectors or wrx injectors with o-ring kit and a walbro 255lph fuel pump which is a great pump to use even if you stay N/A. I can say at 7 psi I'm lighter and faster than a wrx with proper fluid changes. still on stock clutch but then again my car has 19k on it so lol But just decide what route you want to go. To me Supercharging is between N/A and boosted but best of both worlds, torque when you want it al lthe way to redline no spool up and I don't have to drive her hard just know boost is there no matter what.
No doubt I'll get bashed with the your motor is gona blow up but there are tons of people with 7 psi-10 psi(supercharged) with no issues. Its whe nyou turn it up thinking the worst is behind you is when you have issues. There are people running this kit for 2 years with no issues. as long as you have a good tune, run 93 oct or higher, intercooler, retard timing right ,and cold plugs you won't have an issue.





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