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Old 09-27-2010, 01:32 AM   #1
Halls
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Talking Hybrid Guys: Do You Wish You Would've Went A Different Route?

I have read through quit a bit of threads of info from current builds and future builds on here. I'm not saying a lot of people feel like this, but a few. For those of you that do or went a different route after the hybrid was complete,why did you switch?
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Old 09-27-2010, 02:46 AM   #2
sleeperrex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halls View Post
I have read through quit a bit of threads of info from current builds and future builds on here. I'm not saying a lot of people feel like this, but a few. For those of you that do or went a different route after the hybrid was complete,why did you switch?
What other choices? Trade in for another car or stick in another 2.0? Are there other routes i'm not thinking of.
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Old 09-27-2010, 03:21 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleeperrex View Post
What other choices? Trade in for another car or stick in another 2.0? Are there other routes i'm not thinking of.
Another Subaru motor for their vehicle, instead of going hybrid.

-EJ207
-complete usdm sti swap
-stroked EJ205

These ar just a very few of the numerous engine options available.
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Old 09-27-2010, 10:10 AM   #4
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i wish i had went full 257 conversion or even a 207. avcs...
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Old 09-27-2010, 10:32 AM   #5
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im in the middle of this and wish i just went sti longblock
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Old 09-27-2010, 11:01 AM   #6
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What's wrong with a hybrid motor?
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Old 09-27-2010, 11:40 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by rodknock02 View Post
What's wrong with a hybrid motor?
Nothing! Well done, they are amazing to build and run. If there is anything that is wrong with them, it is the complexity in getting from A to Z. My experiences have resulted in this summary...

Hybrid motors amplify the minor idiosyncracies that exist between components that various incarnations of EJ motors have. When you build a "single source" motor, the worst issue you will have is mating the motor to the car/harness. This, at its worst becomes Phase 1 versus Phase 2 issues, as well as AVCS and throttle body compatibility. Net-net, you only have to worry about compatibility issues between the car and the motor (as a whole).

Once you go hybrid, the genie is out of the bottle. You all of a sudden have to worry about dome volumes of heads, rod length, piston interference, quench zones, head gasket thicknesses, water passage compatibility, Phase 1 and Phase 2 mix/match (which gets extremely tangled). The list goes on (tuning for example, is a bottomless pit on undocumented specs).

This is why it is really wise to either go with a built single source motor or a well known, identical phase, hybrid solution.

When you get into going completely off the reservation like my build, you basically have to solve little problems, every step of the way. A wise man (Matt, your sage wisdom will not be ignored again) told me the make every build a "KISS" build. For those who don't know, it means Keep It Simple, Stupid!

Hybrids are not KISS, far from it. If you are going hybrid, especially some completely goofball combo (like my v4 RA head/cam, w/ EJ22T case and Evo IX 16G w/ 10.5cm hotside turbo, going into a Phase 2 car), be prepared to have to spend as much time thinking as wrenching. No disrespect, but that's not for everyone.

If your goal is to build something with big power in a short timeframe, a hybrid is not the route.
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Old 09-27-2010, 12:21 PM   #8
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I have about 4000 miles on my hybrid. I definetly love the 2.5's torque, and i'm glad i could avoid the hassle of AVCS, and DBW throttle body, and everything that goes with it. Everybody at the autox already knows that a bugeye in SM has something crazy done to it. As far as dislikes, i had a guy drop in some Mahle OEM diameter pistons as i thought i was going big turbo at the time. Unfortunatly that may be pushed back indefinetly. The bores were not honed, so i've got loud piston slap. Everybody says that its ok, but I guess we'll see.

Only had one problem with it and that was at 3k miles. On the passenger side exhaust cam, the bolt that held the cam pully to the cam broke cruising at 65 down the highway, just taking it easy. Not that it had anything to do with the shortblock, just figured i'd let people know. No one i've ever talked to had heard of that happening before.

Overall i like it, if i had the chance to do it again, i would have had the motor properly rebuilt. Had the ej205 heads machined to the same specs as the sti. I hear there's a place that does that. Only draw back is a basically stock car in SM. Its TONS of fun because of the torque and response from the TD04... lol. But i have to say that because Auto X is more important to me than big power, if i have a failure thats Shortblock related, i'm rebuilding the 2.0, putting the wrx cams back in, and the 5speed and everything else so i can run in STX once again.

Ray
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Old 09-27-2010, 08:04 PM   #9
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I have a freshly built and recently tuned Hybrid motor. No regrets whatsoever.
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Old 09-27-2010, 08:57 PM   #10
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Love my hybrid, night and day difference, torque is big improvement over stock. I got a factory short block and added CP pistons to make it easy. The tune is everything. I chose to open up the combustion chambers to keep the CR at stock levels and use stock head gaskets. Add some cams and a bigger turbo for nice gains. It ended up costing more and being more work than I expected but I have no regrets.
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Old 09-28-2010, 12:14 PM   #11
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1.5 years and 14K miles later on my built (SB and heads) hybrid and it's all good...

BUT I definitely ended-up with more engine than I had bargained for.

Things I hadn't planned on needing:

ViPEC standalone (false knock is a real bitch)
FMIC (I had a PWR TM, but it just couldn't keep pace with the volume of air the new setup moves)
3076r (the 16G 8cm2 was choking the engine, even with EWG)
new transmission (stock gears are still holding, but it's probably just a matter of time)

If I were going to do it over, I'd build the snot out of a 205 to rev it to 9K rpm and leave all the TQ on the table. VTEC, yo!
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Old 09-28-2010, 12:30 PM   #12
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I had a hybrid setup before and now have an STi. Albeit the hybrid was heavily modded and my STi is bone stock I still contemplate selling the STi and buying a cheap ass bug-eye and dropping in the old hybrid motor I have. It was that fun and for me not that much of a hassle once everything got sorted. It feels better than the stock STi motor in every way but its all about the build.
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Old 09-28-2010, 01:01 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bugeye_fever View Post
Had the ej205 heads machined to the same specs as the sti. I hear there's a place that does that.
EQ Tuning does that. They're actually doing some work on a hybrid I purchased from a friend. Should be going in next week.
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Old 10-04-2010, 04:28 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amandyke View Post
EQ Tuning does that. They're actually doing some work on a hybrid I purchased from a friend. Should be going in next week.
Any news on the install?
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Old 10-05-2010, 04:39 AM   #15
jkopinga
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Hybrids are FINE! The heads need machining and then you're off. Powerwise there doesn't need to be a difference with a complete 2.5L longblock. The S20 heads are even one of the best flowing heads out of the box. Better than a 2.5L STI for example.

Due to the lack of AVCS you will be giving up a little torque though but not a problem for power. When using custom ground cams even the AVCS won't give benefits.

Cheers,

Jasper Kopinga
CS Racing
Taiwan.
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Old 10-13-2010, 02:57 AM   #16
Halls
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkopinga View Post
Hybrids are FINE! The heads need machining and then you're off. Powerwise there doesn't need to be a difference with a complete 2.5L longblock. The S20 heads are even one of the best flowing heads out of the box. Better than a 2.5L STI for example.

Due to the lack of AVCS you will be giving up a little torque though but not a problem for power. When using custom ground cams even the AVCS won't give benefits.

Cheers,

Jasper Kopinga
CS Racing
Taiwan.
The aftermarket/ custom cams won't give benefits to AVCS..why is this? AVCS just smooths out the torque curve?
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Old 10-13-2010, 03:39 AM   #17
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I didn't say aftermarket/custom cams don't benefit from AVCS however if you are going to make custom cams to suit your specific turbo/head porting there doesn't need to be a difference in spool/torque. AVCS is a nice feature to enhance low/mid VE and thus gain torque.

When going for outright power AVCS doesn't need to make a difference. A proper cam and perhaps vernier pulleys will do the trick.

Cheers,

Jasper Kopinga
CS Racing
Taiwan.
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Old 10-13-2010, 07:50 AM   #18
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Not going a bigger turbo straight out of the box :P
Possibly running AVCS?
(unfortunately there's always something you can do to take it further - it's a never ending cycle)
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Old 10-13-2010, 10:54 AM   #19
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One could build any of the following. It's funny but it's true!!!

2.0L - built 92mm bore x 75mm stroke; EJ20
2.1L - built 92mm bore x 79mm stroke; EJ20
2.2L - built 97mm bore x 75mm stroke; EJ22
2.3L - built 99.5mm bore x 75mm stroke; EJ25
2.4L - built 97-98mm bore x 79mm stroke; EJ22
2.5L - built 99.5mm bore x 79mm stroke; EJ25
2.6L - built 99.5mm bore x 81mm stroke; EJ25
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Old 10-13-2010, 12:58 PM   #20
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Cleared up some things...

Quote:
Originally Posted by FuJi K View Post
One could build any of the following. It's funny but it's true!!!

2.0L - built 92mm bore x 75mm stroke; EJ20
2.12L - built 92mm bore x 79mm stroke; EJ20
2.22L - built 97mm bore x 75mm stroke; EJ22
2.33L - built 99.5mm bore x 75mm stroke; EJ25
2.34L - built 97mm bore x 79mm stroke; EJ22
2.46L - built 99.5mm bore x 79mm stroke; EJ25
2.52L - built 99.5mm bore x 81mm stroke; EJ25
2.58L - built 99.5mm bore x 83mm stroke; EJ25
2.43L - built 4" bore x 75mm stroke; EJ25 (sleeved)
2.56L - built 4" bore x 79mm stroke; EJ25 (sleeved)
2.69L - built 4" bore x 83mm stroke; EJ25 (sleeved)


I always put the hundredths of a liter so that people can not the small differences in sizes of certain arrangements and wanted to add two as well.

I really love how people have no idea what their stroker setup displacement is but makes a claim

Last edited by Homemade WRX; 10-13-2010 at 01:11 PM.
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Old 10-13-2010, 01:08 PM   #21
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^^^^^
now THAT is much better. I was lazy to get the actual hundredths. hahaha
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Old 10-13-2010, 01:12 PM   #22
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I still have lots more displacement (rod length/bore/stroke) combos than that...great for fitting displacement/weight limitations for varoius racing classes or desired torque curves.
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Old 10-13-2010, 01:15 PM   #23
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Biggest mistake ever: getting work done by slowboy racing
second biggest mistake ever: going with a hybrid build instead of just rebuilding my 2.0 liter 6 months after car was "worked on" by SBR.

that being said, my car runs pretty good. I've had it on the track a few times and done some auto-x without many issues. I can't get the CEL to go off though and I can't run as much boost, which may be related to a false knock sensor that someone else mentioned. You can get plenty of power from the 2.0 liter with a bigger turbo. I feel that I may have spent too much money for what I got in return with the hybrid build. If you are having any hesitations about it, don't do it. You will be better off with a 2.0 liter and a big turbo.
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Old 10-13-2010, 01:17 PM   #24
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I don't know why more guys don't stick with their 2.0's. A built 2.0L can be lots of fun. Built it to rev!!
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Old 10-13-2010, 02:55 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
I don't know why more guys don't stick with their 2.0's. A built 2.0L can be lots of fun. Built it to rev!!
Because many of us race these cars around corners and cones (they are much better at this than going in a straight line)...and the 2.0L motor with a big turbo doesn't make any freakin torque. It's pretty bad when you can get pulled on at 2500 rpm by a Miata.
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