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Old 11-04-2010, 11:13 PM   #26
DJIMPREZA
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yes thats plastic deformation, abd timing belt installment or silly avcs making valve contact...
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Old 11-05-2010, 07:57 AM   #27
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Just a small update. The motor is still sitting on an engine stand in my garage.

I started gutting the car even more, stripped out the carpet and all the sound deadener, removed the rear bumper beam, and a couple other things. I wanna get the car down to 3000lbs w/driver.

The next step is to sell off some old stuff (UTEC, a few gauges, wideband, etc), acquire some GSC S3 cams, then drop the motor off with Jr for repairs.

I'm also planning to run new -8an / -6an fuel lines, inline fuel pump, and a surge tank. And I'm ditching the UTEC for AEM
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Old 11-15-2010, 02:58 PM   #28
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Jay, why dont you just go to open source fully? Also how about switching to another valve manufacturer...
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Old 11-15-2010, 04:56 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJavaPearl04 View Post
Jay, why dont you just go to open source fully? Also how about switching to another valve manufacturer...
Because open source isn't a good option compared to AEM, especially with a high HP built/cammed motor.

The problem was that The Shop CT ****ed up the timing belt install on my motor. Nothing to do with the valves themselves. I know of a few others who had the same failure with motors built at The Shop.
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Old 11-16-2010, 09:56 AM   #30
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I know nothing about aftermarket engine management systems. Does the AEM have more resolution in the mapping? More ability to switch to safety maps with sensors tied in?
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Old 11-16-2010, 01:55 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jays05 View Post
Because open source isn't a good option compared to AEM, especially with a high HP built/cammed motor.

The problem was that The Shop CT ****ed up the timing belt install on my motor. Nothing to do with the valves themselves. I know of a few others who had the same failure with motors built at The Shop.

I have pretty much the same setup as you aside from the high CR and e85 fueling ...I had the utec open source combo then switched to OS fully...hell of a lot better. Im running non avcs 280/276 cams with high lift. My tuner didnt have much trouble switching to OS fully either...infact he had more trouble with the Utec before. The car put down 543 hp/ 445 tq w/ straight pump on the shops dyno around 25 psi peak. I was looking into the aem as well and decided that the approximate $5k needed to get the aem up and running was too much....point of my rant, OS has worked just fine. I'd hate to see someone drop that kind money if it wasnt absolutely necessary. Plus OS is OBD compliant for state inspection.

PS I think i may have effed up when doing the timing when I built the motor as well (turned the cam sprockets in the wrong manner), having read juniors response....I may tear it down over the winter to avoid dropping any valves...was it the drivers side of your motor that failed in the valve train? My motor has ~3300 miles
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Old 11-16-2010, 02:50 PM   #32
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^ But you had Mikey trying to tune your UTEC, right? I bet he never got a copy of Jr's UTEC base map

South Carolina has no state inspection or emissions of any sort.

It was drivers side, cyl #2 that failed.
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Old 11-16-2010, 03:31 PM   #33
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No he didnt...I dont think that would have mattered anyway... that bloody utec had a mind of its own....pulling timing all over the place. It was so inconsistent. That and when I personally was tuning it, I could never get a smooth afr curve (running SD)....maybe there's a method to that madness but I chose to go OS all the way, it really is smooth and makes the power I was anticipating....consistently.

Wow Im really surprised that they have no inspections? that must be nice...anyway...after fixing your motor and timing it with the correct procedure....you should be go!!! Im really dreading tearing mine down but id rather be safe than sorry.

So thats the front cylinder....the intake valves failed...so whats to fix? a new piston, a couple valves and valve guides? that it? ...are you going to have to deck the block and heads again?

Last edited by BlackJavaPearl04; 11-16-2010 at 03:37 PM.
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Old 11-16-2010, 04:01 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJavaPearl04 View Post
So thats the front cylinder....the intake valves failed...so whats to fix? a new piston, a couple valves and valve guides? that it? ...are you going to have to deck the block and heads again?
At best it would need one new head, 4 valves/springs, etc. But since I found metal chunks in the other intake ports, and the inside of cyl #2 looks absolutely destroyed, it's safe to assume that just about everything is trashed. Once you break an intake valve, all the broken parts tend to go into the other cylinders via the intake manifold.
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Old 11-17-2010, 10:24 AM   #35
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So you may be able to scavenge the rods, crank, and possibly a couple pistons. Maybe even some of the valve train. Man id really like to see everything. Post more pics if you get a chance...when are you planning the rebuild?
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Old 11-17-2010, 10:47 AM   #36
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My other motor that dropped a valve, the only things we re-used were the cams, rods, and head-studs. That motor was built by Ron and he was a big dick when it blew up.

The motor's still sitting on a stand in my garage. The car is all torn apart, interior is down to sheet metal. When I have some money I'm going to bring the motor back to Junior.
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Old 11-17-2010, 02:25 PM   #37
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best of luck to you man... I admire your perseverance to rebuild and enjoy your car no matter how many troubles you may encounter...Im the same way!
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Old 11-17-2010, 05:06 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jays05 View Post
Because open source isn't a good option compared to AEM, especially with a high HP built/cammed motor.

The problem was that The Shop CT ****ed up the timing belt install on my motor. Nothing to do with the valves themselves. I know of a few others who had the same failure with motors built at The Shop.
Can you go a little more into explanation about this ? How exactly did they mess it up ? Was it off a few teeth ? Wrong parts ? ECT? Im interested for personal knowledge.
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Old 11-17-2010, 05:13 PM   #39
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Scroll up to Junior's response, post #10.
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Old 11-18-2010, 02:46 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jays05 View Post
Scroll up to Junior's response, post #10.
I read that, but did not know it was the result of your motor. So they are saying that they valve is being bent when installing the TB when the gear moves, then over time, it fails.

Wow.
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Old 11-18-2010, 07:58 PM   #41
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Jay,

i read about all your engine failures for 2 years and they are all related with valve drops, it happened to me and my friends for at least 4 or 5 times as well with cossy cams. I am a partner of a garage which specialed on subarus. Why am i saying that is this, we used at least 50 cams for subarus from different brands and non of them had this valve drop issue only the cossy ones. we used jun, tomei, kelford, ron spec kelford, gsc, bc and non of them had this problem only the cossy. So same master installed all of them and he is a subaru master for at least 20 years, degreed all of them, same ems hydra,simtek or haltech.
i am sure that it is all related with the cosworth avcs cam, also we had this problem on cyl 3 and 4 rather than 2 like cossy blames, their explanation is worthless in this point. Every subaru mechanic knows the procedure and be very carefull about the timing belt installation cause he knows any mistake about the timing belt or gear worths him many losts.
So i am sure that if you wont change the cams or disable the avcs, you can never solve that issue it happen again, again and again. two of the problematic car owner, dont want to change the cams and we disable their avcs after 2 or 3 failures and now they are running their cars for 30-40k like they stole it and never had any issue after disable date. On other cars we go to the route of non-avcs cams(kelford) and they are better than when they had avcs.

so imo, change your cams or disable your avcs

we discussed this issue on the link below,
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2004708
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Old 01-18-2011, 11:03 AM   #42
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Jay what do you think about this? ^^^
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Old 01-18-2011, 11:06 AM   #43
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# 3 plug looks like a winner
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Old 01-18-2011, 11:39 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJavaPearl04 View Post
Jay what do you think about this? ^^^
Crap, how am I supposed to sell my cossy cams now

Junior told me those cams were cursed and to replace em with GSC S3's. So I was already planning on getting rid of them. I actually texted him this morning asking if I can finally bring him the motor the weekend after next.
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Old 02-03-2011, 03:29 PM   #45
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I dropped the motor off with Junior last weekend. He just sent me this:



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Old 02-03-2011, 05:10 PM   #46
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Ouch.
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Old 02-04-2011, 08:52 AM   #47
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The motor is basically a total loss. I think I'm done with the subaru game for good now.
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Old 02-04-2011, 04:09 PM   #48
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Ouch... Poor Jay, never seen someone with this bad of luck.
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Old 02-04-2011, 04:26 PM   #49
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More pics. The crank, rods, one head, and two pistons are OK. Everything else, not OK.




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Old 02-04-2011, 04:41 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jays05 View Post
The motor is basically a total loss. I think I'm done with the subaru game for good now.


Go have a beer and think it over for a week. Makes sense you're bummed, and I'm not saying ditching the Subi is wrong, but none of us make good decisions when that pissed at something.
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