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Old 09-29-2010, 08:06 PM   #1
gtfaded
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Question ej205 build, opinions/advice

So I finally found a cheap block to start my build with. I ended up going with an ej205 block which I found for $100.00. I looked through plenty of pages here, enough to know thereís been a debate on which block to use in a build for years now. I really wanted to avoid any problems I might encounter with a hybrid build, or worry about avcs or wiring. Reason being, the main focus for my rebuild is daily drivability. Donít get me wrong I would love more displacement, but not at the cost of reliability or cost. Perhaps I may be able to stroke the motor for a little extra. Regardless of displacement, here is the estimated cost I have figured so far.
Manley Pistons/Rods/Bearings Package 980.00 OR
Manley Connecting Rods 375.00
OEM Crankshaft 359.00 (if needed)
Wiseco Pistons 499.99
Deatschwerks Injectors 359.00 (havenít decided on size yet)
Cosworth Head Gasket 100.00
Cosworth Billet Timing Belt Guide 76.00
OEM oil Pump 140.00 OR
Cosworth Oil pump 338.00
ACL Bearings 125.00
ARP Head studs 199.00
Sleeves?
Plus machine work?
Block 200.00 total = 2776.00
I am also considering switching to larger cams and valves.
Now my goals are simple, a reliable dd that can run as low into the 12ís as possible, while saving as much money as possible. I will more than likely be running a big 16g, but havenít finalized that yet. I want to be covered (bottom end wise) to go bigger or for a very long time without having to worry about tearing into it again. What Iím curious to learn is opinions on what parts I can substitute with oem therefore saving me cash. For instance my current crank, Iím assuming, should be good to go with saving me close to $400. Are there any STI parts I can sub instead of aftermarket? Or maybe point out any parts listed that maybe shouldnít be or should be that aren't.
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Old 09-29-2010, 09:28 PM   #2
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get an sti crank and custom wiseco pistons...2.1 liter
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Old 09-29-2010, 10:53 PM   #3
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Custom? Will i need to provide the specs?
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Old 09-30-2010, 12:50 AM   #4
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Get a crank. You can find new ones that flow better for about 600 I believe. My block is still available my inbox wa full, you want reliability you also want to do your heads. Don't have to get cosworth oil filter, just get a jdm 12mm oil pump. And sleeve it. Cams will help. Work will cost alot in guessing 2000$ in work, port an polish the heads, valve springs, etc, withthis and a good tune it should last, but it also dpeneds of you get lucky some people go 100 miles and motor goes bad. Oh oversized valve is a plus, also adding buckets to your heads will help your engine rev ability. I cam get you a good deal in packages for everything. Just pm me. I know a great vendor which hook me up. Il give you there info over pm
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Old 09-30-2010, 10:28 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtfaded View Post
Custom? Will i need to provide the specs?
ask this guy

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1812939
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Old 09-30-2010, 11:42 AM   #6
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Is there a concern about overheating when it comes to honing the walls to sleeve it? It seems like this build is already getting more expesive than I had originally planned.
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Old 09-30-2010, 03:50 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtfaded View Post
Is there a concern about overheating when it comes to honing the walls to sleeve it?
No need to sleeve unless you are trying to make stupid amounts of power or are going over 92.5 mm bore. The cylinders are not honed when you sleeve an EJ block, they are removed by machining and the new sleeves are pressed in. The cost will depend on what kind of sleeves you get.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtfaded View Post
It seems like this build is already getting more expesive than I had originally planned.


It always does...


-soobaviator
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Old 09-30-2010, 04:30 PM   #8
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Ok, so scratch the sleeves, so OEM STI crank or aftermarket? This will obviously determine the pistons.
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Old 09-30-2010, 08:49 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtfaded
Ok, so scratch the sleeves, so OEM STI crank or aftermarket? This will obviously determine the pistons.
You seem to be concerned about money so why would you even consider a tuner crank that costs $1-$4k when the OEM STI crank is ~$300. No, the origin of the crank does not determine what pistons to use... The combination of stroke and rod length determine the pin height of the pistons. You can use a 79 mm stroke crank and STI rods with any piston with the requisite pin height for example...

There are many combinations of various aftermarket rods and pistons however keeping it simple will keep the cost lower. The bottom end combo that works is OEM STI crank and rods. Combine this with OTS stroker pistons from Mahle, Wiseco, Manley, Cosworth or others and be done with it. No deep thought or anguish required.
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Old 09-30-2010, 09:58 PM   #10
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soobaviator: The few 2.1's I've seen here either don't have anything to say, or have some sort of issues. How's yours running?

I ask because I have a set of ej205 heads and block with a spun bearing, as well as an ej255/7 block/crank/rods/cams, and can't make my mind up. One day I want to do the 2.12 or 2.0 to save money, but other times I feel like spending money on head work and going 2.5 or 2.35. The 2.35 option would probably cost considerably more to make it worthwhile though...


Sorry to threadjack, but this kinda ties in...
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Old 09-30-2010, 10:39 PM   #11
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My stroker is running very well actually, just passed through the break-in at about 1,700 miles so I switched over to synthetic oil. I started out with a dual custom catch-can setup but after the first 100 miles the crank breather was not catching much oil so I removed it and have a single can setup only. My OCI is going to be 2K miles max with this motor.

Currently I'm at 14 psi with my 16G and 45 mm Turbosmart VTA EWG. My tuning laptop died last week but Airboys was showing ~270 WHP with the logs I had done so far. Oil consumption is negligible. Got a new laptop this week so I'm back in business and will update my thread soon. Going to higher boost levels and maybe a billet wheel 20G on this car first. I also have a 2.35 (EJ22E stroker) project in the garage as well as a whole bunch of other stuff. I'll get to it all but life is pretty hectic right now...

To further thread jack, some recent pics of the car:





The very latest is that I relocated the Optima battery to the trunk in a sealed and vented Moroso box.





Enough thread jacking...

You should DO the head work, its well worth it. Even just low level bowl/seat blending is productive. Makes sense to do a thorough job if you've got the heads in hand.

If you are concerned about spending forget all the tuner crank billet rod nonsense and go with solid OEM parts, balance/blueprint the components and focus on the small details and they will add up to a good solid build. The only places I really went crazy money wise are on the EWG and ID1000 injectors together were ~$1.3K. Internals are OEM STI save for the Mahle pistons and Cosworth bearings.

Last edited by soobaviator; 06-20-2011 at 10:19 PM.
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Old 10-01-2010, 11:37 AM   #12
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Thanks for the info. OEM seems to be the smart route.
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Old 10-04-2010, 10:38 PM   #13
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Hi, I just built my sti 2.0 engine with arias pistons, eagle connecting rods, acl thrust bearings and a rallyspec crank...
My question is:
What kind of oil engine should use along the first miles....( I mean: when should i replace it??.....should use a full syntehtic??, 10W60W??, 5W30? any special brand?)

Please, i will appreciate your advices....

Thanks!
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Old 10-04-2010, 10:45 PM   #14
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NEVER use synthetic to break-in an engine. For an EJ motor straight 30W or 10W40 mineral based oil works best. However other grades are suitable depending on your specific engine. You should have several oil changes during the break-in period in any case. Start your education in this thread:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2043909
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Old 10-05-2010, 07:12 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soobaviator View Post
NEVER use synthetic to break-in an engine. For an EJ motor straight 30W or 10W40 mineral based oil works best. However other grades are suitable depending on your specific engine. You should have several oil changes during the break-in period in any case. Start your education in this thread:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2043909
Thanks a lot for your quick reply, I am a little confused with the several ways to break in an engine but I am pretty sure that choosing the correct oil type and oil changes periods are the clue....
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Old 10-06-2010, 11:21 AM   #16
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2.1L engines are great!! They make the turbo spool so much easier than a 2.0L does. This is all due to the added stroke. Extra displacement is just little.

They have a very wide powerband and will rev like a bullet! I'm considering building one when going circuit racing again. I have seen 2.1L put out 500 lb/ft and over 530 BHP with a GT35R.

Cheers,

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Old 10-07-2010, 03:22 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkopinga View Post
2.1L engines are great!! They make the turbo spool so much easier than a 2.0L does. This is all due to the added stroke. Extra displacement is just little.

They have a very wide powerband and will rev like a bullet! I'm considering building one when going circuit racing again. I have seen 2.1L put out 500 lb/ft and over 530 BHP with a GT35R.

Cheers,

Jasper Kopinga
CS Racing
Taiwan.
over 400WHP is a lot for any street driven EJ. I would not mind having it either. I'm thinking about eventually pushing this build to ~350 WHP. 400+ WHP and 9K RPM would be a lot of fun with the right gears. Building for that kind of power in a reliable setup is quite pricey though...

For a lot of reasons I do like the 2.1 liter and for a lot of reasons I don't like 2.5 hybrids. There seem to be accounts of problems with both. I have kind of fallen in love with the EJ22E stroker-hybrid setups but have found that these blocks require a lot of detail work to make them acceptable for my purposes. Hopefully I'll get around to posting some details in my EJ22 build thread.
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Old 11-29-2010, 01:10 PM   #18
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So I found a set of forged 92mm CP pistons, these should be ok for this build?

Last edited by gtfaded; 11-29-2010 at 01:15 PM.
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Old 12-16-2010, 12:01 PM   #19
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Scratch that^ how about 2.5 L heads on my 2.0 L? Better gains than porting my 2.0 L heads? Do they bolt up?

Last edited by gtfaded; 12-16-2010 at 12:17 PM.
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Old 12-16-2010, 12:27 PM   #20
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Quote:
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So I found a set of forged 92mm CP pistons, these should be ok for this build?
doubt it.

I dont recall CP making an OTS stroker piston.


Only Mahle.
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Old 12-16-2010, 12:39 PM   #21
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Cosworth, Mahle, and Manley are the only manufactures of OTS stroker pistons. Mahle even has both 2618 and 4038 stroker pistons available for about $500/$600. The Cosworth pistons are about $900 and are Xylan coated 2618 alloy. Don't know much about the Manley's.

You can get custom Wiseco's for around $650.

Don't use an EJ257 head on an EJ205 block... A mild port and valve job goes a long way on an S20 head. Especially if you add OEM STI cams. Stick with the S20 head.

I went whole hog on the intake porting and exhaust side is slightly opened up, radiused and mirror polished. Throttle response is miles better than the stock EJ205 even with the larger turbo.
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Old 12-16-2010, 01:03 PM   #22
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So I have the options to use the EJ257 crank, rods, and cams? Giving me a 2.1xL? Would a different aftermarket cam BE a better choice seeing as the avcs wouldn't be included?
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Old 12-16-2010, 01:09 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtfaded View Post
So I have the options to use the EJ257 crank, rods, and cams? Giving me a 2.1xL? Would a different aftermarket cam BE a better choice seeing as the avcs wouldn't be included?
You're using EJ205 heads, and those do not have AVCS.

Cam wise, guess it depends on power.


yes you would be using EJ257 79mm crank, EJ257 rods, 130.5mm is length iirc and a OTS stroker piston or custom stroker piston. That will give you 2.1L.
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Old 12-16-2010, 01:11 PM   #24
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Aftermarket cam is really not going to give significant returns unless you are going into 450+WHP territory...

I would say ditch the Cosworth pump too. Even an 11 mm STI pump is too much for a stroker EJ205 IMO. Oil relieve the block, clean up your 10 mm pump and that will be plenty sufficient. Save the money and invest in a Killer B oil pick up.
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Old 12-16-2010, 01:16 PM   #25
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Quote:
Manley Pistons/Rods/Bearings Package 980.00 OR
Manley Connecting Rods 375.00
OEM Crankshaft 359.00 (if needed)
Wiseco Pistons 499.99
Deatschwerks Injectors 359.00 (haven’t decided on size yet)
Cosworth Head Gasket 100.00
Cosworth Billet Timing Belt Guide 76.00
OEM oil Pump 140.00 OR
Cosworth Oil pump 338.00
ACL Bearings 125.00
ARP Head studs 199.00
Talk to realstreetperformance.com about a rod/piston combo, they're prices are normally extremely competetive, just remember you need a STROKER piston. Cost should be ~780 for rod/piston

OEM Crankshaft is like $309 shipped from subarugenuineparts.com
skip the cosworth headgasket, just go with an OEM Gasket kit. You will have A LOT of miscgaskets, its about $300 as well but completely worth it, plus you can re-sell some of the gaskets like turbo, headers, uppipe
Cosworth timing belt guide, just use OEM
OEM 10mm oil pump is about a third of that price
extremepsi.com usually runs great deals on acl bearings. I paid $85 for my main and rods.
arp headstuds, talk to realstreetperformance.com as well.. cheaper than listed but they do packages too.


Also dont forgot to add the cost of tools, fluids and small parts that you are better off replacing than re-using such as OEM oil coolers, etc etc. It adds up sadly...
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