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Old 10-02-2010, 02:11 PM   #1
u2_m4r1n3
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Default WRC Turbo Placement

Anyone know what's up with the WRC car turbo placement? I know it partly helps them in lowering the center of gravity, but I'm just wondering if it benefits anywhere else?









Any thoughts?
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Old 10-02-2010, 02:30 PM   #2
69subaru360
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They put them there so everything can be serviced easily. They need to be able to get the trans out as quickly as possibly and change turbos as quickly as possible.
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Old 10-02-2010, 02:43 PM   #3
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Hence why there is probably no practicality to it, as far as a wide market of turbo set-ups?

So other than that, there is no real benefit then. Well... that was more simple than I thought. I thought there was a lot more to it, lol. Being that the up-pipe and DP were basically straight to it, seemed like it might help performance, but IDK, more of just a guess.
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Old 10-02-2010, 02:48 PM   #4
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I believe it actually lessens the amount of turbo's you can mount.
You have more room , but not al turbo's like having their center cartridge rotaded almost 90 degress.
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Old 10-02-2010, 02:53 PM   #5
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Oh, well, so really it's just not a great idea in general... unless you have that turbo, lol. I wonder what turbo that is, it's gotta be expensive.
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Old 10-03-2010, 01:24 AM   #6
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The Subaru WRC turbo used to be (and may still be) an IHI RX6 variant. Last one I saw (rebuilt) listed for $12,000 That's not a typo... twelve thousand dollars. That's for a USED (albeit rebuilt) turbo!

Keep in mind, the WRC turbos use MarM 247 (an exotic superalloy that costs ridiculous money- think $2000 plus for just the turbine shaft) and have speed sensors in them. No boost gauges... they are regulated by the actual shaft speed (think 100,000rpm+).

As for the horizontal placement, the WRC turbos were typically replaced after every rally. A normal car turbo has to live 100,000+ miles. If your turbo was placed like that, it would be puking oil/dead in no time flat. When you replace (rebuild) your turbo every 100 miles or less, you can afford to position it in any way you like. I'm sure horizontal placement was advantageous for weight, convenience, performance or a combination thereof.

Last edited by phlegmon; 10-04-2010 at 09:53 PM.
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Old 10-03-2010, 08:23 AM   #7
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Haha... holy cow! 12k.

Well. that's some good info right there, thank you for that; definitely all makes sense now. Just crazy the stuff they do in these cars and the abuse it takes!
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Old 10-03-2010, 02:25 PM   #8
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Yep, I think things would be different with our cars if we had their budget and time between overhauls.
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Old 10-03-2010, 04:55 PM   #9
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A placement like this also allows you to be plumbed up to your airbox directly, mounted in the location whare the tmic for road going cars use to be , think there benefits to do so as well !
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Old 10-04-2010, 01:05 AM   #10
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SO.... unlimited funds is what I need...
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Old 10-04-2010, 01:33 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch Devotion View Post
A placement like this also allows you to be plumbed up to your airbox directly, mounted in the location whare the tmic for road going cars use to be , think there benefits to do so as well !
Or plumbed directly to the hood scoop and deletes having a bend off the exhaust housing on the down pipe.
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Old 10-04-2010, 11:37 AM   #12
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I would think spool time. The exhaust flow has less bends than over the engine....the shorter distance the exhaust flow has to travel the more spool time you would have...idk
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Old 10-05-2010, 05:12 AM   #13
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Header pipework is reduced to a minimum as are all the bends of the up and downpipe. As mentioned before don't expect the center cartridge to like this kind of angles.

Prodrive uses Mar-M 247 for the shafts and turbine wheels. The turbine house itself is made of inconel as is the entire exhaust manifold. The air/fuel intake directly to the headers can be seen where forced air from the turbo is fed directly into the headers together with a nice squirt of fuel which goes BANG in the up-pipe. You can imagine the amount of mayhem going on in there. Not to mention they run almost 4 Bar (60 PSI) at the low RPM to have more than 700Nm of torque at 3k revs. Uptop ofcourse there's almost no boost available as it's heavily restricted with the 34mm restrictor.

Due to this the WRC cars have an almost flat HP curve. They use extremely high boost to max out the air flow of the restrictor at the low end and continue to do so at the high end which means very little boost. Ignition timing can be as low as 5 degr. when full boost hits and upto 30 degr. at the high end.

Regarding the turbos price it comes in at around 15k pounds for a new one!!

Cheers,

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CS Racing
Taiwan.
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Old 10-05-2010, 06:03 AM   #14
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I would say easy access to it or parts around the turbo


Anyone have any idea what fuel they use?
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Old 10-05-2010, 06:38 AM   #15
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102 Octane is the maximum permitted octane in the WRC.

Jasper.
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Old 10-05-2010, 08:31 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkopinga View Post
Header pipework is reduced to a minimum as are all the bends of the up and downpipe. As mentioned before don't expect the center cartridge to like this kind of angles.

Prodrive uses Mar-M 247 for the shafts and turbine wheels. The turbine house itself is made of inconel as is the entire exhaust manifold. The air/fuel intake directly to the headers can be seen where forced air from the turbo is fed directly into the headers together with a nice squirt of fuel which goes BANG in the up-pipe. You can imagine the amount of mayhem going on in there. Not to mention they run almost 4 Bar (60 PSI) at the low RPM to have more than 700Nm of torque at 3k revs. Uptop ofcourse there's almost no boost available as it's heavily restricted with the 34mm restrictor.

Due to this the WRC cars have an almost flat HP curve. They use extremely high boost to max out the air flow of the restrictor at the low end and continue to do so at the high end which means very little boost. Ignition timing can be as low as 5 degr. when full boost hits and upto 30 degr. at the high end.

Regarding the turbos price it comes in at around 15k pounds for a new one!!

Cheers,

Jasper Kopinga
CS Racing
Taiwan.

Now, that's a really good explanation. Must suck to be as limited as they are. But don't they also run like 8 injectors, rather than our normal 4? that turbo and engine is insane!

I'll be really happy when I can be pushing 350 to the wheels.
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Old 10-30-2012, 06:19 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkopinga View Post
Header pipework is reduced to a minimum as are all the bends of the up and downpipe. As mentioned before don't expect the center cartridge to like this kind of angles.

Prodrive uses Mar-M 247 for the shafts and turbine wheels. The turbine house itself is made of inconel as is the entire exhaust manifold. The air/fuel intake directly to the headers can be seen where forced air from the turbo is fed directly into the headers together with a nice squirt of fuel which goes BANG in the up-pipe. You can imagine the amount of mayhem going on in there. Not to mention they run almost 4 Bar (60 PSI) at the low RPM to have more than 700Nm of torque at 3k revs. Uptop ofcourse there's almost no boost available as it's heavily restricted with the 34mm restrictor.

Due to this the WRC cars have an almost flat HP curve. They use extremely high boost to max out the air flow of the restrictor at the low end and continue to do so at the high end which means very little boost. Ignition timing can be as low as 5 degr. when full boost hits and upto 30 degr. at the high end.

Regarding the turbos price it comes in at around 15k pounds for a new one!!

Cheers,

Jasper Kopinga
CS Racing
Taiwan.
Thought you guys might want to read the article by Eric Hsu detailing the fuel/uppipe "rocket"

http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_artic...preza-sti.aspx
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Old 10-31-2012, 12:29 AM   #18
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Tr30r Aswell
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:53 PM   #19
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I work with an ex- WRC Subaru mechanic. He was on the team in 2001 and 2002. I showed him the thread and he said the placement makes it easily serviceable. He said a swap occurs in 10 minutes MAX!
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Old 10-31-2012, 11:23 PM   #20
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sick antilag setup!
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:57 AM   #21
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That rocket article is awesome... I wish more articles like that were floating around... like how about the local boys... vermont sports car.. going through every little bit and bob they have on their motors... The rocket is awesome... but.. if rumors are to be believed won't we just be able to spool up our electric assisted turbos soon ?
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Old 11-02-2012, 03:00 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pooster.online View Post
Thought you guys might want to read the article by Eric Hsu detailing the fuel/uppipe "rocket"

http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_artic...preza-sti.aspx
Beat me too it lol.

yeah that things basically a friggen turbine engine. Id assume you dont want that up pipe bent too much so it can do what it needs too. But im no rocket scientist
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Old 11-02-2012, 03:59 PM   #23
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Moore Performance has a few cars with a very similar turbo placement. The owner Ryan has an oiless comp turbo so thats not an issue. My setup will be like his also. Less bends in the uppipe and the compressor outlet goes directly into an air to water intercooler, so the exhaust and after turbo piping length is reduced. I dont happen to have pics, i thought i did.
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Old 11-02-2012, 06:53 PM   #24
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I really like that ihi turbo. I want to really try to get my hands on one
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:41 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatTurboLag? View Post
I really like that ihi turbo. I want to really try to get my hands on one
You can contact this company,but be prepare to spend


http://www.subaruwrcspares.com/11.html

Price list

http://www.subaruwrcspares.com/35.html

Jura
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