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Old 06-26-2002, 02:24 PM   #1
GT2Sean
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Post Differences in Factory STS and Normal Shifter

I'm going to be getting a WRX shortly and i had a question about the shifter options. Is the only difference for the short shifter the actual shifter and/or bushings? is the linkage different at all? i ask this because i plan to get a kartboy shifter and bushings, and i was wondering if i should just get the regular shifter from the factory, or do i need to get the short shifter? thanks for the help in advance.
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Old 06-26-2002, 04:04 PM   #2
mtb_dude
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The dealer's STS is a POS and way over priced. It's like a 2% shorter throw! The dealer had two cars one with the STS and I could barely tell the difference. I would just get the normal shifter and get the kartboy. It's probably half the price and sooo much better.
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Old 06-26-2002, 04:09 PM   #3
cnstman
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Default POS?

the sti ss is not a pos in my opinion, and i think many others will agree with me. the throw is just as short as the kartboy, trust me i have had both which is something that most others can't say. the kartboy, at least mine, was very knotchy feeling. the sti is very smooth. i can shift faster with the sti than the kartboy. actually i could shift faster with the stock long throw that the kartboy due to the knotchy binding up shifter.

just my opinion.

others??


cnstman
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Old 06-26-2002, 04:25 PM   #4
mtb_dude
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The short throw shifter my dealer had was not the STi. It was just a normal STS and was twice the price of a kartboy. I'll assume the STi is even more than that.
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Old 06-26-2002, 04:30 PM   #5
Peaty
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The reason the STi is not as notchy or positive shifting feeling is the bushing is much softer than the KB shifters. Mostly you are just paying for the shift lever. The linkage and bushing is the same as OEM. I've felt and had both out. In fact I put KB bushings in an STi shifter this weekend. The throw for the KB and the STS are mostly the same. The only real diff is the STi is stock height and the KB is shorter. You can get the Cobb SS and adjust it the way you like.

Look here for a comparison:

http://www.scoobymods.com/forums/sho...?s=&threadid=6






Cobb info here:
http://www.scoobymods.com/forums/sho...=&threadid=402

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Old 06-26-2002, 06:39 PM   #6
cnstman
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Default i see

well i have the kartboy bushings installed, and that is not the cause of the notchy feeling. according to my mechanic, who has been working on subaru's for 10 years or more, is that the angle that the new shifter, whatever brand it is, buts the linkage in is too steep thus causing the universal joint where the shifter connects to the transmission to bind up. that to me does not sound good. that is why i took out my kartboy and bought the full linkage.

if you look at the attached pictures, look at the gold shaft on the sti vs the stock. you will see a greater bend in it than in the stock black shaft. this allows the pivot point to safely be raised to allow a shorter throw. this is done to correct the angle that i am talking about and allow the u-joint to not bind up. i think the boys at sti do things for a reason.

this increased angle will also cause a seal to go out over time, 30-50k miles and will cause an oil leak. to fix the oil leak i guess you have to take the tranny out and replace the housing where that seal is.

i am not going to get into an agruement about this statement, just take it for what it is worth. (to some like myself it is worth alot, to others not much) for me it was worth the extra $60 that i spent to get the sti (130 for kartboy, 190 for the sti from group buy on i-club a few months back)

cnstman
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Old 06-26-2002, 07:31 PM   #7
rkkwan
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Just want to state it again... The SPT/STi bushing is not the same as the stock ones. It looks the same, but is a tiny bit firmer. Doesn't really affect the argument, though.

-Ray
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Old 06-26-2002, 07:41 PM   #8
Peaty
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I'm not sure about that myself. The angle of the shifter above the pivot point on the shaft has no bearing on the angle to the u-joint. The distance from the ball to the pivot point does and the distance is basically the same on the KB to the STi, center to center. I've had my KB shifter in for 50K with no problems myself.

The angle in question of binding is at number 35035F point in the pic below. Look at the section. It would have to be lifted up pretty high to begin to bind. Like 4 - 5 inches in fact I think the shaft would contact the car before anything got bound in the joint.



Here is a shot of the actual location. Look just above the bushing. The U-joint is there. I can't see how it would be able to bind. This pic is w/ a KB shifter already installed.



It's the harder bushing that contributes to the notchy precise shifting feel IMHO.

Peaty

www.Scoobymods.com

Last edited by Peaty; 06-26-2002 at 07:51 PM.
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Old 06-26-2002, 07:43 PM   #9
Peaty
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Quote:
Originally posted by rkkwan
Just want to state it again... The SPT/STi bushing is not the same as the stock ones. It looks the same, but is a tiny bit firmer. Doesn't really affect the argument, though.

-Ray
After removing and feeling about 15 - 20 shifter bushings I'm sure I could find an STi one that was softer than a stock one and Visa Versa. I say it's attributed to batch to batch production variation and age. For all intents and purposes they can be considered the same in my book. I wish I could take the bushings I'b taken out to work on put them on a durometer to prove it, but I give them back to the owners.
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Old 06-26-2002, 07:43 PM   #10
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Default Re: i see

Quote:
Originally posted by cnstman
well i have the kartboy bushings installed, and that is not the cause of the notchy feeling. according to my mechanic, who has been working on subaru's for 10 years or more, is that the angle that the new shifter, whatever brand it is, buts the linkage in is too steep thus causing the universal joint where the shifter connects to the transmission to bind up. that to me does not sound good. that is why i took out my kartboy and bought the full linkage.

i've had both side by side and could not measure the difference between the upper arm. i think that the instalation was incorrect. the center piviot needs to be lubed and torqued to 8 pounds. not much. i think it was overtightened. IMHO



if you look at the attached pictures, look at the gold shaft on the sti vs the stock. you will see a greater bend in it than in the stock black shaft. this allows the pivot point to safely be raised to allow a shorter throw. this is done to correct the angle that i am talking about and allow the u-joint to not bind up. i think the boys at sti do things for a reason.

Same as above.

this increased angle will also cause a seal to go out over time, 30-50k miles and will cause an oil leak. to fix the oil leak i guess you have to take the tranny out and replace the housing where that seal is.

Strange. i have never had a customer say this has happened in the thousand some odd shifters i have produced in the past three years

i am not going to get into an agruement about this statement, just take it for what it is worth. (to some like myself it is worth alot, to others not much) for me it was worth the extra $60 that i spent to get the sti (130 for kartboy, 190 for the sti from group buy on i-club a few months back)

Sorry you did not like our product. have you tried our shifter in a few different cars and see if it feels the same?



cnstman


Tom@kartboy.com
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Old 06-26-2002, 10:57 PM   #11
cnstman
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Default kartboy

i
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Old 06-26-2002, 10:58 PM   #12
cnstman
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Default kartboy

i loved your shifter, until i found out it was POSSIBLY damaging my tranny. if you search under my profile you will see that i gave it good reviews. like i said i am not going to get into an conflict about this. my mechanic who i have the highest respect for told me the above so i switched. no offense to anyone on here, but i take his word over all of yours.

tom tell me then where the notchy feeling comes from, just wondering.

i was impressed with the physical qualty of your shifter, however given the information i have, i elected not to use it anymore.


cnstman.
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Old 06-26-2002, 11:35 PM   #13
tom@kartboy
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Default

i have no grudges against you, i just want to state my side

there are two reasons why/how my shift kit is "notchier"
one is the bushings. they are quite a bit harder than the OE ones 75A VS.95A
Second if the center piviot is tightened too much and was not greased before instalation it will be very stiff to shift.
With the OE setup this is allready done for the end user. it is just a PNP setup.

also if the tang on the shifter bushings is installed backwards it will bind and make it REALLY stiff to shift.
hope that helps.
tom@kartboy.com

Our shifter dosent kill trannys... 400HP will TRUST ME
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Old 06-27-2002, 08:05 AM   #14
GT2Sean
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Default

so you guys are saying that if i plan to get the kartboy shifter and bushings, that i should get a WRX with just the regular shifter because there would be no advantage to getting the factory STS and then putting in a kartboy, correct?
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Old 06-27-2002, 09:23 AM   #15
Peaty
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GT2Sean

Yes, that's what I would do if it were me.

Peaty

PS: Good luck w/ the new WRX , What colour are you getting Silver I hope
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Old 06-27-2002, 10:22 AM   #16
mtb_dude
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#47 SM w/RA gears

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by tom@kartboy

Our shifter dosent kill trannys... 400HP will TRUST ME


I kept the stock bushings in the car and it's pretty good. I also lubed the ball joint pretty good. There was a ton of grease around the socket already actually. It's not Honda broom-handle-in-bucket-of-grease smooth but who the heck really wants that?
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Old 06-27-2002, 12:39 PM   #17
GT2Sean
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Default

silver, black, or blue. i just can't decide.
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Old 06-28-2002, 10:29 AM   #18
gjhsu
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Meh. I paid the extra money because I wanted something STi.... actually, the car came with it, and I didn't argue. It feels much nicer than stock, that's all I can say, because I haven't played with a Kartboy yet, and probably won't, because I'm not gonna throw out the SS I have just to put in another one especially if the bushings are the only thing that changes the feeling. As for bushings..... I may try the KB ones.
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Old 06-29-2002, 01:44 PM   #19
nerdish
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Default

Quote:
Originally posted by GT2Sean
silver, black, or blue. i just can't decide.
I'm partial to the red.
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Old 07-05-2002, 02:13 AM   #20
cmaj7
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Default My 2c

Kart boy is excellent...notchy but very nice feel....

Personally...I like.....

The STI SS + Kartboy bushings + Group N Tranny Mount + Prodrive gear knob + Redline 75w90ns....
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Old 07-05-2002, 10:45 AM   #21
rkkwan
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Default Re: My 2c

Quote:
Originally posted by cmaj7
The STI SS + Kartboy bushings + Group N Tranny Mount + Prodrive gear knob + Redline 75w90ns....
He he, I have:

The STI SS + Kartboy bushings + Group N Tranny Mount + Momo gear knob + Red Line 75w90ns....

And I agree it is just about the best one can get without tearing down the tranny or replacing the clutch.

-Ray
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Old 10-13-2002, 08:55 PM   #22
BboyAspenWhite
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Default my take...

oops..posted in wrong thread...moved it to parts review forum..sorry
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