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Old 10-14-2010, 10:48 AM   #1
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Default Sedan vs. Wagon lateral link length

I have hard numbers that I thought I would share as this comes up from time to time.


First off, from what I can tell, all the 1993-2001 Imprezas use the same length lateral link. The difference from time to time is the rear links. Cars that did not come with a rear sway bar may not have the brackets.

Second off, the 1993-2001 links are the exact same length as the 02-07 WAGON links. The ONLY difference is that the 02-07 wagon links have that little bracket for the headlight leveling system used in Europe.

Third thing, and this one is the big one. The length of the link difference between 02-07 Sedan vs 02-07 Wagon arm is NOT 5mm. I've seen the 5mm number thrown about, but being the OCD person that I am I had to check for myself. The difference is 10mm with the wagon link being shorter.

That is NOT 10mm TOTAL. That is 10mm per side.
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Old 10-14-2010, 11:47 AM   #2
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Makes sense.
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Old 10-14-2010, 11:49 AM   #3
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random question, but what stops you from using sedan length links on a wagon? Is it just quarter panel clearance? Would there be any benefit from increasing the rear track like we do in the front with sedan arms?

Matt
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Old 10-14-2010, 12:18 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by mattminer View Post
random question, but what stops you from using sedan length links on a wagon? Is it just quarter panel clearance? Would there be any benefit from increasing the rear track like we do in the front with sedan arms?

Matt
most of the problem is that whole fender thing.
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Old 10-14-2010, 12:44 PM   #5
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^^ as in wheel is further out and tire will rub on wagon fender ?
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Old 10-14-2010, 01:10 PM   #6
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And Wouldn't sedan links add negative camber you the wagon if the difference is 10mm per side?
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Old 10-14-2010, 01:29 PM   #7
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I've seen this tossed around, but never got confirmation - does this mean that 1993-2001 style struts (AGX, not sure who else offers them? D-spec?) will relieve the loss of camber found when using sedan struts on a wagon?


People have suggested it, but I've never seen any proof to say it does. I do recall seeing someone who still lost a bunch of negative camber despite using them.
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Old 10-14-2010, 01:46 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Mr. Sociable View Post
I've seen this tossed around, but never got confirmation - does this mean that 1993-2001 style struts (AGX, not sure who else offers them? D-spec?) will relieve the loss of camber found when using sedan struts on a wagon?


People have suggested it, but I've never seen any proof to say it does. I do recall seeing someone who still lost a bunch of negative camber despite using them.
Don't know. given how internet things work I would want to physically check it.
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Old 10-14-2010, 02:01 PM   #9
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^^ as in wheel is further out and tire will rub on wagon fender ?

Yes. I can only run 225's with fender mods, because i have sedan (STi, actually) laterals and excessively large struts. With stock struts I could probably only run 235's, but may not need fender modification to do so.
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Old 10-14-2010, 02:18 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Mr. Sociable View Post
I've seen this tossed around, but never got confirmation - does this mean that 1993-2001 style struts (AGX, not sure who else offers them? D-spec?) will relieve the loss of camber found when using sedan struts on a wagon?


People have suggested it, but I've never seen any proof to say it does. I do recall seeing someone who still lost a bunch of negative camber despite using them.
TurbojonLS tried them a looooong time ago and still lost negative camber. I can't remember if that was front, rear, or both.
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Old 10-14-2010, 02:26 PM   #11
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What do the '04 STi links measure at? I should of measured mine before I sold them.
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Old 10-14-2010, 03:55 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by jdblock View Post
What do the '04 STi links measure at? I should of measured mine before I sold them.
the internetz says that they are the same length as the wrx sedan links.
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Old 10-14-2010, 04:05 PM   #13
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Makes sense that the wagons are the same as the GCs in the rear, as the rear fenders on the wagons are very much the same as the rear of the GCs.

Just something I noticed when rolling fenders/etc.

My GC fenders were not wide enough with 04 STi lateral links to fit the OE wheels/etc, so I settled for adjustables to pull the rears in about 10mm, so I definitely agree with your numbers =)

-- Dave
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Old 10-14-2010, 04:07 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by AcquaCow View Post
Makes sense that the wagons are the same as the GCs in the rear, as the rear fenders on the wagons are very much the same as the rear of the GCs.

Just something I noticed when rolling fenders/etc.

My GC fenders were not wide enough with 04 STi lateral links to fit the OE wheels/etc, so I settled for adjustables to pull the rears in about 10mm, so I definitely agree with your numbers =)

-- Dave
i had '04 sti lateral links in my GM before it went bye bye. fit without a problem. no rubbing or 'nuffin and it was lowered on eibachs.
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Old 10-14-2010, 04:09 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by sniper1rfa View Post
Yes. I can only run 225's with fender mods, because i have sedan (STi, actually) laterals and excessively large struts. With stock struts I could probably only run 235's, but may not need fender modification to do so.
If you add rear camber plates and are on coils, you can use them to pull the strut away from the fender/add camber, then correct for the camber change with an upper camber bolt in the rear.

This will give you a bit more tire to strut clearance.

I can fit 245s easily in the back of a GC with this setup w/o any rubbing (fenders are rolled though) Should work similarly on the wagon.

-- Dave
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Old 10-14-2010, 04:10 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by kumanchu View Post
i had '04 sti lateral links in my GM before it went bye bye. fit without a problem. no rubbing or 'nuffin and it was lowered on eibachs.
Oh, the links were fine, but I was on 225/45/17 7.5" wheels with +53 offset.

Full standard rear STi drivetrain.

That doesn't fit on the GC normally, the wheels actually poke out past the fenders.
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Old 10-14-2010, 04:19 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kumanchu View Post
the internetz says that they are the same length as the wrx sedan links.
And that is the same length as '05+ STi aluminum links?

I would like to know because I have adjustable links that I set to STi aluminum length, and it doesn't seem right on my '04.
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Old 10-14-2010, 04:54 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcquaCow View Post
If you add rear camber plates and are on coils, you can use them to pull the strut away from the fender/add camber, then correct for the camber change with an upper camber bolt in the rear.

Not interested in going back to solid top mounts.
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Old 10-14-2010, 05:14 PM   #19
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The difference in camber between a wagon and sedan works out to pretty much exactly 1 degree if anyone is wondering.

I just did two cars in two days with d-specs and RCE springs- one wagon and one sedan. The interesting thing is that the rear d-specs have a little extra camber built into them, so you can use them on a sedan, wagon, or GC. Numbers work out to -1.8 to -2.2 on a sedan and -0.8 to -1.2 on a wagon. Up front they're sedan specific though.
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Old 10-14-2010, 06:01 PM   #20
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Sorry for posting this question in your GB thread TiC guy.

I don't really have much to add except backing up what others have been saying. I am currently running 04 sti struts/springs/tophaps (modified strut mounts).

current issue with the system is i have +1 degrees of camber in the rear...

So i've been poking around trying to find a solution that does not involve camber bolts. I would rather notch the mounting ears before running camber bolts.

so i'm interested in finding out the length of the aluminum links and also discuss what people have done with axles. A lot of people have been saying you need 02-07 sedan axles to compliment the links.

I have seen somebody have an axle pop out (potentially because of this issue) and i would like to avoid that issue if it truly exists. Seems like a lot of people on here don't have problems with running GC length axles so...?
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Old 10-14-2010, 06:16 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Sociable View Post
I've seen this tossed around, but never got confirmation - does this mean that 1993-2001 style struts (AGX, not sure who else offers them? D-spec?) will relieve the loss of camber found when using sedan struts on a wagon?


People have suggested it, but I've never seen any proof to say it does. I do recall seeing someone who still lost a bunch of negative camber despite using them.
GC AGX's on a GG Wagon will net the same front camber loss as using a Sedan strut. Using a GC on the rear of a GG wagon results in a significant increase in neg camber in the rear.
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Old 10-14-2010, 08:41 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnie View Post
GC AGX's on a GG Wagon will net the same front camber loss as using a Sedan strut.

Why is this if the lateral links are the same length?
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Old 10-14-2010, 09:54 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Sociable View Post
Why is this if the lateral links are the same length?
I think the strut towers are farther apart in the wagon due to the want for extra cargo room.

-- Dave
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Old 10-14-2010, 10:08 PM   #24
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but then why does using sedan struts on a wagon and sedan struts on a GC result in the same lack of negative camber?
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Old 10-14-2010, 11:04 PM   #25
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but then why does using sedan struts on a wagon and sedan struts on a GC result in the same lack of negative camber?
Because the GDs have longer lateral links, which pushes the hub farther from the car, and changing the angle of the strut/hub relative to the body of the car.

I think subaru compensated for this by drilling the holes in the hub ears of the strut at a different angle.
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