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Old 09-01-2009, 05:46 PM   #1
brazymstrp
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Default Which ECU for USDM STI with cable throttle body

I tried searching but I am just really really confused now. I have a USDM 2.5 sti motor with the triple wire rear cam sensors in the rear with no front cam sensor.

Which ECU can I use with this with a cable throttle that I am bringing over from my wrx? I am under the impression that I cannot use a JDM ecu because of the cams and sensors and what not. Which is my best route? Hydra? Thanks

-Jack
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Old 09-01-2009, 07:42 PM   #2
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I'm using a Link G3+ on my '04 STi, non-avcs cams and a Ford Mustang 70mm throttle body, obviously DBC.
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Old 09-02-2009, 02:57 AM   #3
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Thanks for the response. I guess what I'm trying to figure out is what ecu I could use so I would be able to use the avcs. I think I wouldnt be able to use the JDM ecu because the JDM cams are physically different from the USDM in regards to the rear sensor.
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Old 09-02-2009, 09:27 PM   #4
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I'm pretty sure the G4 can do it, but give Miles at Fine Line Imports a call (or post in his Link tuning thread in the EM Forum) and he should be able to tell you whether the Link G4 has this capability.
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Old 09-29-2009, 02:24 PM   #5
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Slight resurect..

Is it not possible to just use an Sti engine, with Sti wiring, Sti ECu and WRX DBC intake manifold? The wires for DBW will not be connected and then a reflash would cancel the associated code.
Does the lack of DBW prevent AVCS operation?
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Old 09-29-2009, 02:27 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad View Post
Slight resurect..

Is it not possible to just use an Sti engine, with Sti wiring, Sti ECu and WRX DBC intake manifold? The wires for DBW will not be connected and then a reflash would cancel the associated code.
Does the lack of DBW prevent AVCS operation?
Actually I'm really curious about this too. My tuner told me that I might be able to do this, but he wasnt sure. anyone with first hand experience?
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Old 10-13-2009, 01:34 PM   #7
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Old 01-16-2010, 09:13 PM   #8
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Anyone? That would be perfect if it works that way, but I'm skeptical, for the fact that the code that would be reflashed would only be the fuel and timing, correct? Would it overwrite the dbw code?
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Old 01-17-2010, 01:40 AM   #9
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hydra, motec, aem. Am I missing something?
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Old 01-17-2010, 08:15 AM   #10
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Many don't want to go through the expense and learning curve of a stand alone. Many think that the stand alone, although versatile, will never be as daily-driver-friendly as a Factory ECU.
Also, these days, the knowledge on modifying a factory ECU has really progressed a lot, much is possible, even speed density. It doesn't seem completely science-fiction that one should be able to either fool the 32 bit USDM ECU into thinking that everything is fine with the throttle by wire, or programing this ECU into ignoring the table with the throttle by wire control.

The answer that everyone gets is just "No". This is not sufficient.

I've asked some quite knowledgeable people in a different thread like this:
The 32 bit ECU is a self contained unit. It can boot up on its own, once it's powered up and then it probably starts looking for periferals (it's sensors).
When it cannot find the throttle control, what exactly happens?
Does it freeze, hang, shut down, go into limp mode?

Is the reason that this cannot be done (use a Sti ECu in a WRX) because too many things have to be tuned out, because they're not present in a WRX (such as the Diff temp sensor)?

I'm told that the harness connector for the 32 bit ECU is different, but that's not really a problem, under my opinion.

As far as the position sensors on the Sti engine being of a different functionality, you just leave them in place. This is also where the different clock frequency problem would be addressed. Just let it use its own sensors.

As far as the AVCS, there is a harness which can "bring" those to the Ecu.

The reason for wanting to use the Sti ECU is because you'd get AVCS. The Sti engine can already run with a WRX ECu, without AVCS. This is well documented, with photos and there are people that run this without problem.

The reason for wanting AVCS is the much improved spool up.

Last edited by Vlad; 01-17-2010 at 08:40 AM.
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Old 01-17-2010, 08:24 AM   #11
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Another thing, is that people dismiss anything but full AVCS controll.
If I was to make a paralell with boost control, if you can't have programmable boost control, many people do well even with a manual boost controller.

But, I guess a rudimentary AVCS controller (like an injection or spray module, rigged to trip AVCS based on boost or injector duty cycle), could change timing on the cams on a manner in which the rest of the tuning features could not keep up and all bets are off on the result, with a good chance of nasty results..

Last edited by Vlad; 01-17-2010 at 08:38 AM.
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Old 01-18-2010, 05:53 PM   #12
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I've had these same questions,

my plan was to transplant a full ej257 long block into my wrx, then use my stock intake manifold and (cable-driven) throttle body with the stock ecu. But I want AVCS, so would I piggyback a hydra/aem system for that, or would this setup require using these as a stand-alone engine computer
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Old 01-18-2010, 07:06 PM   #13
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The stand alone would have to controll both your engine and its AVCS. If the AVCS would somehow be controlled separately, the WRX ECU would have no way to know what the cam advance is.
Also, the hydra would have to use something as a base of actuating the AVCS (claculated load, based on physical fueling and air detection via sensors)
The piggyback needed here is something similar to the APS TGV delete servos.
If electronic manipulation of the STI ECU fails so badly, maybe mechanical trickery will fool it into working.
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Old 06-14-2010, 06:38 PM   #14
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Resurrect!!!

Ive got a USDM 05 STi complete longblock in my car running off the ej20 16 bit ecu and wiring. Ive got top feeds on it with the wrx intake manifold and cable tb. There is a kit out for the use of the tgv harnesses to control avcs. I looked into it and its legit. On the other hand, I also looked into a hydra and thats more my angle. BUT, if you were looking to complete the hybrid swap, you can get the tgv wiring kit and utilize that function on the 16 bit ecu to control your avcs... click here For the kit... its $200. I think it can be a goldmine for some.
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Old 10-11-2010, 02:35 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srREXed View Post
Resurrect!!!

Ive got a USDM 05 STi complete longblock in my car running off the ej20 16 bit ecu and wiring. Ive got top feeds on it with the wrx intake manifold and cable tb. There is a kit out for the use of the tgv harnesses to control avcs. I looked into it and its legit. On the other hand, I also looked into a hydra and thats more my angle. BUT, if you were looking to complete the hybrid swap, you can get the tgv wiring kit and utilize that function on the 16 bit ecu to control your avcs... click here For the kit... its $200. I think it can be a goldmine for some.
Resurrect Again!!!

So with this kit, and a JDM STi Spec C intake manifold and SAECU, a cable throttle can be used?
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Old 10-11-2010, 04:19 PM   #16
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Yes, there are JDM ej207s with cable tbs... You would have to get the JDM ecu and the manifold parts incl, tb, mani and all the smaller stuff. But this kit will run the motor properly for avcs and a cable tb. Make sure you get the jdm ecu or it wont work...
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Old 10-11-2010, 07:24 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srREXed View Post
Yes, there are JDM ej207s with cable tbs... You would have to get the JDM ecu and the manifold parts incl, tb, mani and all the smaller stuff. But this kit will run the motor properly for avcs and a cable tb. Make sure you get the jdm ecu or it wont work...
Sweet I think I still have a V7 or V8 ECU lying around
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Old 10-12-2010, 08:53 AM   #18
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Moreso, the kit is mainly to get avcs running, but if you get a jdm ecu for the ej207 from years earlier than I believe v8 or v7 you will be able to run the setup fine.
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Old 10-12-2010, 02:14 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by srREXed View Post
Moreso, the kit is mainly to get avcs running, but if you get a jdm ecu for the ej207 from years earlier than I believe v8 or v7 you will be able to run the setup fine.
OK so the JDM ECU, IA AVCS Kit, And Spec Intake manifold is that al that is needed or are there other parts? Sorry about all the questions.
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Old 10-13-2010, 08:35 PM   #20
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Does this get around the differences in the avcs controls in the heads? I understand the jdm and us spec avcs to NOT be interchangeable. Is that not correct?

I'd presume you'd need JDM cams, and JDM solenoids to get the JDM ecu to work.
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Old 10-14-2010, 03:18 PM   #21
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An ecu is an ecu is an ecu. You put on it whatever to tune what you want/your setup. When you change your computer you need to tune. ALWAYS!!! As far as the avcs controls, again, can all be changed, determine this by your tuner. If you swap, or bolt ons, or avcs kit and jdm ecu and usdm engine and a parts list, no matter what you need to tune for it. So, yes it will get around cam and avcs differences, and yes, it seems like you have the main stuff. Just get yourself a good set of injectors, a working tb and some rails and fuel lines...
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Old 10-20-2010, 11:17 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by langsbr View Post
Does this get around the differences in the avcs controls in the heads? I understand the jdm and us spec avcs to NOT be interchangeable. Is that not correct?

I'd presume you'd need JDM cams, and JDM solenoids to get the JDM ecu to work.
Good Question
Quote:
Originally Posted by srREXed View Post
An ecu is an ecu is an ecu. You put on it whatever to tune what you want/your setup. When you change your computer you need to tune. ALWAYS!!! As far as the avcs controls, again, can all be changed, determine this by your tuner. If you swap, or bolt ons, or avcs kit and jdm ecu and usdm engine and a parts list, no matter what you need to tune for it. So, yes it will get around cam and avcs differences, and yes, it seems like you have the main stuff. Just get yourself a good set of injectors, a working tb and some rails and fuel lines...
ok so last question so,
Just get a good set of injectors, a working tb and some rails and fuel lines...,ECU,and thats it? Are the JDM solenoids & cams not needed?
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Old 10-21-2010, 01:38 PM   #23
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Quote:
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Good Question

ok so last question so,
Just get a good set of injectors, a working tb and some rails and fuel lines...,ECU,and thats it? Are the JDM solenoids & cams not needed?
It seems there are two types of pick-up for the AVCS sensor on the rear end of the cams. The JDM cams have 4 positive signal pick-up points on the cam, whereas the USDM cams seem to have negative pick-up points (slots). The pickup points and sensors are completely different. The JDM are two-wire magentic sensors. The USDM STI sensors are 3-wire hall-effect sensors... If you tell me the exact parts list you have, i can tell you what you dont have and need to get to make it work.
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Old 10-21-2010, 03:58 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srREXed View Post
It seems there are two types of pick-up for the AVCS sensor on the rear end of the cams. The JDM cams have 4 positive signal pick-up points on the cam, whereas the USDM cams seem to have negative pick-up points (slots). The pickup points and sensors are completely different. The JDM are two-wire magentic sensors. The USDM STI sensors are 3-wire hall-effect sensors... If you tell me the exact parts list you have, i can tell you what you dont have and need to get to make it work.
My parts list is as follows: JDM spec C intake manifold, aeromotive top feed fuel rail kit w/topfeed injectors, JDM Subaru Ver7/8/9 Rear Cam Position Sensor, and the IA Performance AVCS wiring kit & ebay throttlebody.
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