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Old 10-14-2010, 04:58 PM   #1
llamsn
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Default Help with Center Diff Transfer Drive Gear Bearing R&R

For pictoral directions on how to get to the center diff bearings, jump to page 3. However, there is other good info on both pages 1 & 2 that will probably answer most relevant questions.

My center differential bearings started whirring recently, so I'm in the middle of replacing the group.

I've removed the bearing that sits on the center diff (#28) & the one that fits on the end of the transfer driven gear (#24).

I'm looking at renting a ball bearing tool tonight to remove the spline side bearing (#26) on the transfer driven gear. I'm also going to purchase an appropriate hex wrench and snap ring pliers to remove the bearing mounted in the tail shaft (like #32).

The tech manual calls for a specific bearing installation tool that resembles an over-sized impact socket to replace the bearing on the transfer drive gear, which runs ~$200 from what I can find. I also don't have a press.

Any suggestions on how I can replace bearings 24, 26, and 28 at home?

I have a couple of ideas, but I would like to hear suggestions for the do-it-yourselfer!

I've searched nasioc and multiple other Subaru forums looking for a diy answer to no avail, so any helpful advice would be appreciated!

For Reference:



Similar to a WRX 5MT
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Last edited by llamsn; 10-03-2012 at 01:34 AM. Reason: for clarity
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Old 10-14-2010, 08:02 PM   #2
04stigeorge
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Never replaced them without a press...wouldn't it be easier to have a local shop with press do the job?..It shouldn't cost much. As far as the special tools Subaru calls installer etc...just find something the size of the inner race that isn't going to break....now that I think of it even if you used a puller you can't beat the bearing back on....well good luck.
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Old 10-14-2010, 10:10 PM   #3
MARKSTIV8
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Oh man, It would be awesome if you would make some pictures as this is exactly what I'm preparing to do in my tranny.

As for the tool, if you have a garage, Harbor Freight has some cheap hydraulic presses, that would probably help you a lot. If not then you have to find a local shop who can do that for cheap.

May I know what were the symptoms, when it would whine and such?
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Old 10-15-2010, 01:44 AM   #4
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04stigeorge,

After I pulled the pieces from my car, I brought the tail shaft section, the center diff, and the transfer driven gear in my back pack to take home (the garage I have is a couple of miles from my residence). I stopped at a transmission shop on the way home explained and showed them exactly what needed to be done. They figured roughly about 2 hours labor to remove and replace the bearings. That equivocates to about $130. It only took me about 25 minutes (with breaks) to remove 2 of the bearings with a hammer and a punch. I should mention that this is my first time doing something like removing a pressed bearing from a drive train piece.

I did just speak with a local Subie Tech and he said that their press isn't worth while, so they service all of their center diffs using hand tools. I was absent minded enough that I forgot to ask him what they use to replace the bearings. I'll be stopping by there tomorrow to pick up my parts, so I'll ask for advice on how to replace them.

MARKSTIV8,

I've been taking pics of the process. I looked around a few different forums and haven't found a great write-up on all of the steps to fully get to and repair the center diff bearings while the transmission is still on the car(however, n2x4 @ subaruforester.org did a fantastic job w/ the tranny out of the vehicle!). I'm considering adding some info to help others.

As for diagnosis, I found a lot of good info in the forums! A key point to remember: no matter what gear your in, independent of whether or not the clutch is depressed, and from no influence of your rpm that damaged/deteriorating bearings will make a noise if the car is moving and only if it is moving. If the sound goes away if you change the aforementioned, then you need to look somewhere else.

On a 2000 mile road trip, I started hearing a faint whining in the last quarter driving at highway speeds. Naturally, the noise increased the further I drove with it. The whining transformed to a whirring by the time I reached home (just so you know, I had read about the sound in the forums months prior while searching for something else, so I had a decent idea of what it was). When I got back, I let the car sit for a few days and then drove it around my neighborhood to re-diagnose/confirm my suspicions. The sound was even apparent at 10+ mph. I let the car coast to a stop and I could actually hear lightly what sounded like bad bicycle crank bearings (almost like marbles shifting) at < 5mph. My visual and aural inspection confirmed the marble shifting noise after I tore the pieces out of the case.

Here are a couple of links I used for diagnosis and guidance.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ential+bearing
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1147847
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1170285

Center diff removal instructions with pics
http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulle...ce-them-46979/

The forester diff is very similar to the wrx diff.
I'll post more comprehensive info later when I get a moment.

Last edited by llamsn; 10-21-2010 at 09:17 AM.
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Old 10-15-2010, 10:39 AM   #5
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My transmission has started to make some noise also. I've been thinking that it might be the transfer gear bearings, although I haven't completed my diagnoses yet. I have been looking into how to replace these and there isn't that much DIY information available even though it appears to be a fairly common problem. Have you inspected the old bearings and is the damage visble? Which ones went bad? Let us know how you solve the problem.
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Old 10-15-2010, 12:27 PM   #6
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klinebau

After searching through forums and then speaking with a both a Subie tech and gear shop, I'm under the impression that this is basically a maintenance part with a 5MT. The bearing set is something that you change every so often like one would a timing belt. I had my transmission rebuilt in January of 2009 and the bearings were replaced during the rebuild. I put about 63,000 miles on the car since then. It might just be the nature of the beast.

The damage was immediately obvious when I saw that the rollers were deteriorated specifically in the spline side roller-bearing. The outer race also stayed in the tail housing when I pulled the transfer driven gear (tdg). The smaller roller bearing on the transmission side doesn't really show any wear on the rollers, but the outer race stayed in the transmission housing as well.

The bearing that slides around the collar of the center differential seemed very tight and within tolerances, but I'm going to install a new one as preventative maintenance. I really don't want to do this again in 15,000 miles!

I have yet to get to the bearing in the tail shaft. I'm going to work on it this morning and I'll post info later.


Look at the roller deterioration. Many of the rollers are similar. The surface resembles a potholed road.
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Old 10-15-2010, 01:01 PM   #7
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That certainly looks worn out. I guess you will have to cut the outer races somehow to remove them. Thanks for the picture. I will probably need to do this as I have about 64,000 miles on mine.
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Old 10-15-2010, 05:28 PM   #8
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Thanks for pictures ,this thread could be a nice DIY!
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Old 10-15-2010, 07:42 PM   #9
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The price the shop wants is crazy. I don't blame you for going at it.
I could re and re both bearings on my press in under 20 minutes...
I know of some rally guys who have come up with some inovative stuff to work out in the field. Not uncommon is using a bottle jack and welding up some think gauge metal frame around it, using hardened threaded rod to adjust the hight.
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Old 10-15-2010, 08:27 PM   #10
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This is great! im pretty sure I have the same problem and plan to tackle it in the next weekend or two. Do you have more pictures? I <3 pictures.

Can you get to this withOUT dropping the tranny? I really dont feel like going through that if I dont have to.

How did you know which bearings to get (part numbers)? Did you just go to a local subaru dealer and tell them what you needed? Total cost?
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Old 10-15-2010, 09:15 PM   #11
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I may make this a complete diy by the time I'm done! I'm taking plenty of pics and notes.

The links in the post above contain videos, part numbers, and ideas on diagnoses.

The four bearings with part numbers are in the pic:



Total price < $125.

Last edited by llamsn; 10-15-2010 at 09:28 PM. Reason: forgot price
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Old 10-15-2010, 09:18 PM   #12
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ragejed,

The rest of the transmission is still in the car. The tail shaft part of the housing/extension comes out, but the rest of it stays.

I'm occupied for the weekend, so I probably won't install the new parts until Monday.


04stigeorge,

I've spent about a half hour using a punch and hammer removing 2 of the bearings. It's time consuming, but works if you don't have a press. The Subaru tech I spoke with told me that their press is a piece, so they use hand tools for the bearings as well. What I forgot to ask him is how he removes the spline side bearing! He won't be back until Monday morning. I guess I'm already repeating myself!

Last edited by llamsn; 10-15-2010 at 09:54 PM. Reason: more to add
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Old 10-16-2010, 12:52 PM   #13
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llamsn,

I know your busy this weekend, but your saying that you didnt use a shop press at all? If thats the case, GREAT! I wont need to buy one.

Was there a gasket on the tail section of the case? or just liquid gasket?
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Old 10-17-2010, 10:05 PM   #14
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I was under my car this weekend to fix the boot on the front CVs, so I had a chance to eliminate other possible causes of my noise. It is definitely not related to the accessories as I pulled off the belts and rotated each pulley. The noise is definitely in the transmission and is the loudest when in 4th or 5th gear. There is still a noise when I pull it out of gear, but not as loud. I might have else going on, but I will still probably pull out the tail section and have a look.
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Old 10-18-2010, 11:09 PM   #15
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I ended up paying a shop to remove the other 2 bearings and replace all four. I don't have a press nor do I have place to put one. I did get them back tonight. I'll put everything back together tomorrow.

My transmission was rebuilt a year and a half ago. I had silicone between the seam of the tail shaft and the transmission. The local Subaru parts department also told me that it was silicone when I stopped by and asked for a gasket.

klinebau,

If you search the links I posted earlier, you can listen to a couple of videos that are representative of bad bearings.
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Old 10-19-2010, 06:46 PM   #16
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pictures picture pictures! please and thank you
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Old 10-19-2010, 09:27 PM   #17
EROCS04SBRUSTI
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if you paid to much too press in which a harbor freight press is just 120 bucks 12 ton I think and enough for a small space pictures also subscribed
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Old 10-20-2010, 10:45 AM   #18
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If you just replace the bearings, do you need to worry about re-measuring and setting the pre-load or can you just use the existing shims?
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Old 10-20-2010, 11:17 PM   #19
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did your dealership have these bearings and gaskets in stock? or did you have to order them ahead of time?
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Old 10-21-2010, 09:40 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klinebau View Post
If you just replace the bearings, do you need to worry about re-measuring and setting the pre-load or can you just use the existing shims?
+1 for this. I would also like to know.
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Old 10-22-2010, 08:16 AM   #21
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Typically, the bearings have the same dimensions, down to a couple thou. 99.9% of the time, if you stay with OEM bearings and don't change the shafts, the shim requirement will remain the same.

Jay
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Old 10-22-2010, 09:35 AM   #22
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^^^ That makes sense. In another thread it was suggested that even if you change the gears/shaft, the shim requirements will remain the same and that the variability is due to differences in the case.

One last questioin I have is how to remove the outer races from the transfer case and extension case. How difficult is this to do and what tools would be necessary?
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Old 10-22-2010, 01:13 PM   #23
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The bearing replacement was inexpensive. The Subaru specific bearing tool would have been expensive. I used a shop that already had one.

My local Subaru dealership did not have them in stock, so I had to wait a few days.

I gathered the same info that Storm did from speaking with the shop that replaced the bearings (he's owned and worked on many Subarus). However, if you have to replace the tail shaft case section or the transfer driven gear, here are the tolerances:

The images are not the best quality!





The cones that sit in the casing were pretty easy to remove. The one that sits in the tail shaft housing can be accessed through the drive shaft side. Just poke the cone from outside.
I rigged up something for the transmission side cone that was hook-like. I had some thin wire that I formed into a 90.



I'll post more when I get a minute...
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Old 10-22-2010, 09:11 PM   #24
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You sir are an amazing help! seriously thank you! I can't wait to see all of your pictures. If you need a place to host them all, let me know and Ill get them up on my web server for everyone.

Last edited by ragejed; 10-22-2010 at 09:46 PM.
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Old 10-23-2010, 07:17 PM   #25
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So...I just jacked up my car, had my friend bring it up to 60mph in 4th gear and let it coast as I was under the car. The noise I have is coming from the transfer case for sure. Problem is I dont really have time to fix it. I wonder what subaru would charge for this :/
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