Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday October 24, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Built Motor Discussion

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-24-2010, 08:22 PM   #26
dexterous
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 23553
Join Date: Aug 2002
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Slippery Rock, PA
Vehicle:
2005 STI - Insanity!
2014 WRX - Daily

Default

I took a break earlier and I am actually working on my install at this very moment. I have the pickup installed with the included spacers and torqued to the specs in the factory service manual. There's nothing else that I am missing right?

Also, I just noticed that there are two oil drain holes in the pan. Are plugs supposed to be provided because I have none. If it helps, I also sourced this pan from Moore Performance about two-three months ago.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
dexterous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2010, 09:23 PM   #27
dexterous
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 23553
Join Date: Aug 2002
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Slippery Rock, PA
Vehicle:
2005 STI - Insanity!
2014 WRX - Daily

Default

The pickup and pan are in! With the motor out this really only took a few minutes and was overall pretty easy. I did run into two small snags though. Fist off, if I had to do this again I would start by removing the oil dipstick tube totally from the motor instead of trying to leave it installed and slip it in while I put the pan on. When attempting my little dipstick tube stunt I managed to split one of the killer b supplied o-rings in half. Lucky for me I had an o-ring kit with identical replacements sitting around. The other issue was with the mounting holes drilled in the base of the pan. It appeared that two of the holes were drilled just a bit off. What I ended up needing to do was pull the pan off (something that I REALLY didnt want to do), remove all the mounting hardware and put only the bolts in the two slightly off holes. Getting a few of the remaining bolts in was pretty tight but after a few minutes I got them all torqued down.

I am not sure how rational it is but I have this really big fear that some of the gasket material will get into the oil pan area and clock up the pickup. I tried really hard to put a consistent amount of Permatex on and keep it away from the edge but when I had to pull the pan off due to the hole inconsistency it really started to get spread out. The motor wont be running for several weeks so I am pretty sure that the Permatex will totally harden and and never get a chance to cause any trouble.






Last edited by dexterous; 10-24-2010 at 09:52 PM.
dexterous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2010, 10:37 PM   #28
KillerBMotorsport
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 198281
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Virginia
Vehicle:
2005 WRX/STi
WRB of course

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dexterous View Post
I took a break earlier and I am actually working on my install at this very moment. I have the pickup installed with the included spacers and torqued to the specs in the factory service manual. There's nothing else that I am missing right?

Also, I just noticed that there are two oil drain holes in the pan. Are plugs supposed to be provided because I have none. If it helps, I also sourced this pan from Moore Performance about two-three months ago.
Nope, you've got it! The fine thread hole is for the OEM plug from your old oil pan and the coarse thread is 1/2NPT. You can adapt the 1/2 NPT to virtually anything you might want to put in there, or just go to your local hardware store and get a brass plug, wrap it 3-4 times in teflon tape and be done with it. I recommend a square plug if you can find one as you can get a metric wrench onto it.

Sorry you had some tight fit-up. Part of our final testing is leak testing and mounting to a block. Occasionally there are some burrs that need removing, but nothing very exciting. I will check our test block, and won't be too suprised if the mounting bolts are a bit on the sloppy side since they've had hundreds of pans bolted down to them.

Your bead looks fine and I wouldn't be concerned about it coming off and going into the pickup. I've seen REALLY sloppy installs and have never seen gasket material seperate and get into places where it shouldn't.
KillerBMotorsport is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2010, 10:52 AM   #29
dexterous
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 23553
Join Date: Aug 2002
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Slippery Rock, PA
Vehicle:
2005 STI - Insanity!
2014 WRX - Daily

Default

KillerB,

Thanks, I figured as much. I will pickup a plug during my next trip to the hardware store.
dexterous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2010, 10:58 AM   #30
dexterous
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 23553
Join Date: Aug 2002
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Slippery Rock, PA
Vehicle:
2005 STI - Insanity!
2014 WRX - Daily

Default

Since I was on an oil kick last night I decided test fit my Mocal oil cooler sandwich adapter with the KillerB pan in place. The Mocal does NOT fit well with the stock oil pan so I figured the KillerB pan would be even worse. Fortunately, the KillerB pan actually fit better but it still has fitment issues with the Mocal adapter.

On my old setup I notched out an area on the stock pan's lip but I could not bring my self to do that to the KillerB pan. Instead, I decided to grind off a bit of the thermostat bolt on the Mocal adapter. Here's the result:




Last edited by dexterous; 10-25-2010 at 11:15 AM.
dexterous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2010, 11:05 AM   #31
dexterous
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 23553
Join Date: Aug 2002
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Slippery Rock, PA
Vehicle:
2005 STI - Insanity!
2014 WRX - Daily

Default

My final project for the evening was installing a block heater. I actually purchased this block heater in 2003 for my 2002 WRX. The car was frequently in an area with very very cold weather so the block heater was intended to help with super cold starts. I never got around to installing the heater before selling the WRX in 2004 and since it was still sitting here I figured that I would put it on this motor. Even though my car typically sits in storage over the winter I am not really excited about starting a frozen motor with 15w50 oil when I need to move it around.

dexterous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2010, 12:22 PM   #32
KillerBMotorsport
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 198281
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Virginia
Vehicle:
2005 WRX/STi
WRB of course

Default

^ How much did you grind off? We may be able to take some off the flange in that area so that doesn't happen again.
KillerBMotorsport is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2010, 04:28 PM   #33
dexterous
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 23553
Join Date: Aug 2002
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Slippery Rock, PA
Vehicle:
2005 STI - Insanity!
2014 WRX - Daily

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
^ How much did you grind off? We may be able to take some off the flange in that area so that doesn't happen again.
I only had to grind on the nut but I would say 1mm. It would be really awesome if you purchased a Mocal adapter and modified future pans so that they fit! I bet you could even convince BAT Inc. to loan you a few different ones. Also, remember that the Mocal adapters also conflict with the STOCK pan so this is not exactly an issue with your setup.
dexterous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2010, 10:32 PM   #34
Moore Performance
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 231489
Join Date: Dec 2009
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa
Default

Tom,
Your build is going nicely and I'm looking forward to seeing the results of your hard work on the dyno in the (hopefully) not so far off future! The FP Red and your motor should make for a great track car as well as a monster street machine! Please let me know if you need anything else and I'll check in frequently to see how the build is going! Btw...I almost kept your Killer B pan/pickup combo when it came to the shop because it looked soooooo good and it would have made a nice addition to my new motor

Last edited by Moore Performance; 10-25-2010 at 11:24 PM.
Moore Performance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2010, 10:42 PM   #35
Moore Performance
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 231489
Join Date: Dec 2009
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by alcoolaid View Post
Oh and the slip joints on that header... don't know if that's a good idea?
They're actually double slip fit joints and they allow for some expansion/contraction during heat cycles but they seal extremely well. We took a lot of time in deciding what type of connection points to use and after many blown 2 bolt and 3 bolt uppipe gaskets at race events we decided to go with gasketless, double slip fit joints. At this point we're very pleased with the performance we're seeing with these joints and it also allows for multipe uppipe changes (stock location, T3, etc) without having to purchase extra gaskets or hardware when making a swap.
Moore Performance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2010, 11:24 PM   #36
Moore Performance
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 231489
Join Date: Dec 2009
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul View Post
Cost?!? isnt this kit like 2.5k not even including a turbo??
You can easily get other kits to fit with no mods or very little
turbo slection is even better with a t3 or t4 framed turbo


I 100% would love to see evo8/9 turbos on subarus but not at that price tag. Im every excited to see your results regardless tho
Goodluck
That's a good point about the t3 or t4 flanged turbos, but here is why we did what we did......

Your comment about other turbo kits is hard to compare to what we have to offer simply because when you compare many kits priced in the same range as ours you are forced to run EWG, many times you cannot keep your MAF sensor, you are not given a tmic option, turbos choices in some kits are limited and all of those kits priced close to ours DO NOT come with a header. Also, the turbo technology used in many of those kits is a little out of date when compared to some of the newest Evo turbo options available.

The Evo turbo kits we're are about to release to the public come with everything you need to bolt any stock framed Evo 8/9 turbo (with a flipped center section that we can do for you) on your Subaru without having to run ewg's, change turbo inlets, change your CAI and MAF, etc. We also offer tmic options for those who don't want to run a fmic and we use top quality assemblies built to our spec by Bell Intercoolers.

We decided to use and design a complete turbo kit around Evo TS turbochargers because the turbo sizes, availablity, power levels and the cost of turbo rebuilding is much better than many turbo options on the market today as well as the fact that you can run the factory (and very efficient) internal wastegate system if you'd like with little or no negative side effect. We really wanted to bridge the gap between JDM vf36/37 power levels and high boost, high dollar turbo kits using t3/t4 flanged turbos. Let's face it, some guys dont need a t4 flanged Borg Warner S400 turbo running 30+ lbs of boost, but maybe they want more power than the TS vf36/37 is able to put out.....that's where we come in.

Also, ALL of our exhaust components are designed to change and grow with you and your car so we are buiding and testing 4-2-1 stock turbo location header/uppipe combos right now based off of our TS header as well as designing uppipes for t3 and t4 divided TS turbos.

Here's a graph from our prototype t3 divided uppipe and downpipe combo that was mated to our small tube TS header. This car was running a BW S256 turbo, E85, and 23psi on a conservative tune.




I think Tom's car with an FP Red will make an even more impressive graph than this car did when it's back up and running!

I hope I was able to answer a few questions for you and our goal is to work with each and every customer to design and build an exact kit or exhaust component for your specific car and your specific need! We worked with Tom for over a month to figure out exactly what he wanted and we look forward to seeing his results!
Moore Performance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2010, 05:16 AM   #37
ce_dois
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 262129
Join Date: Oct 2010
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Portugal
Default

nice setup!
ce_dois is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2010, 10:52 AM   #38
hobbesnapoli
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 221436
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: PA
Vehicle:
02 WRX vf39

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dexterous View Post
After evaluating my project a bit, I have come to the conclusion that the most likely area for me to experience an issue is in my fuel system. While I have years of Subaru wrenching experience, I have very minimal experience with advanced fuel systems. I am pretty concerned that making a rookie mistake with gasoline and super expensive components could go horribly wrong very quickly. As a result, I have read just about every thread on NASIOC related to advanced fuel systems similar to what I plan to install. I have also spent a good deal of time on the phone with my tuner Phil from Element as well as the Aeromotive pre-sales and technical support hot-line. On a quick side note, both Element Tuning and Aeromotive provide excellent technical support and have done a great job providing me with all the info that I have needed to make informed decisions for my car.

The result of about a month of research and several revisions is as follows. If you are experienced in this matter I would appreciate it if you could provide me with any guidance that you feel would be useful. In addition to a critique of my design/plans, I would love to hear about any issues you ran into, including, what didn't work and general advice you could offer. Thanks.

Which fuel rails and what fuel will you be using? I would personally use 8AN Line (braided or pushlock) to connect between the distribution block and fuel rails- and then 6 or 8 AN to the fuel pressure regulator. (which regulator are you using and what size ports?). Using 5/16 rubber lines on a system like that seems silly - except for post-regulator. Oh and you should put a 10 micron (30 still much better than notihng) filter before the distribution block. Unlikely that you'll have problems but it's not worth not running a filter ... I sell A1000s and haven't noticed a link between filters and dead pumps. Aeromotive will rebuild the pump for you at little or no charge in most instances anyway.

Last edited by hobbesnapoli; 10-28-2010 at 10:58 AM.
hobbesnapoli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2010, 04:29 PM   #39
timeXlost
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 113924
Join Date: May 2006
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Medway, MA
Vehicle:
2005 STI....Broken
93 RX7...Not Broken

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moore Performance View Post

Here's a graph from our prototype t3 divided uppipe and downpipe combo that was mated to our small tube TS header. This car was running a BW S256 turbo, E85, and 23psi on a conservative tune.



472ft lbs @ 3900rpm is crazy...
timeXlost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2010, 07:39 PM   #40
dexterous
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 23553
Join Date: Aug 2002
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Slippery Rock, PA
Vehicle:
2005 STI - Insanity!
2014 WRX - Daily

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbesnapoli View Post
Which fuel rails and what fuel will you be using? I would personally use 8AN Line (braided or pushlock) to connect between the distribution block and fuel rails- and then 6 or 8 AN to the fuel pressure regulator. (which regulator are you using and what size ports?). Using 5/16 rubber lines on a system like that seems silly - except for post-regulator. Oh and you should put a 10 micron (30 still much better than notihng) filter before the distribution block. Unlikely that you'll have problems but it's not worth not running a filter ... I sell A1000s and haven't noticed a link between filters and dead pumps. Aeromotive will rebuild the pump for you at little or no charge in most instances anyway.

LOL, that graphic was mislabeled. I am actually using -6 stainless line in those locations. I agree with you, spending ten grand on a build and not buying $100 in fuel line is just retarded. Take a look at the updated graphic. As for the fuel filter, can you make me a deal on an appropriate one? If possible, I would like a -10 male on one end and a -10 female on the other end so I dont need to buy any more fittings.
dexterous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2010, 11:55 PM   #41
Red_Wrx
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 158658
Join Date: Sep 2007
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: California
Default

i purchased teflon braided lines and they keep the fuel gases contained. its prefrence, if you enjoy your engine bay smelling like gas fumes, use cheap lines. imo
Red_Wrx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2010, 07:50 PM   #42
dexterous
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 23553
Join Date: Aug 2002
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Slippery Rock, PA
Vehicle:
2005 STI - Insanity!
2014 WRX - Daily

Default

This is what I purchased (in 15ft lengths): http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RUS-632070
dexterous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2010, 02:13 PM   #43
engineerx
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 42614
Join Date: Sep 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Bullet-Dodging Fwy Los Angeles
Vehicle:
0405 WRX STi/S2000
AspenWhite/Silverstone

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dexterous View Post
This is what I purchased (in 15ft lengths): http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RUS-632070
According to their description the Proflex has a chlorinated polyethylene (CPE) liner. This hose is lined and hopefully shouldn't allow fumes to go thru the hose walls as these type of elastomers are dense and not permeable.
http://www.dow.com/elastomers/products/tyrin.htm
http://www.dow.com/PublishedLiteratu...038007b61c.pdf

Red_WRX has a good point regarding fumes. Unlined braided hoses are permeable to gasoline fumes and if any of the hoses are in the trunk area or worst yet, cabin area, you will get nasty gas smell. Teflon lined hose is a must, unless all the hoses run outside (under) the car

Your fueling system looks pretty good. It's very similar to what I'm running (teflon-lined) and I haven't had any issues with gas smell or using the 8mm OEM hoses/fittings at the pump hanger assembly.

Looking forward to your results, specially the Moore Perf turbo kit. Keep the pics coming, always cool to see nice builds like these!


Last edited by engineerx; 11-02-2010 at 02:38 PM.
engineerx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2010, 10:45 AM   #44
dexterous
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 23553
Join Date: Aug 2002
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Slippery Rock, PA
Vehicle:
2005 STI - Insanity!
2014 WRX - Daily

Default

Its been a while since I updated my thread because I have been waiting on my header and turbo to arrive. Moore Performance posted a few picts of a header identical to the one that I am going to get so here are a few teaser shots. My header will be black instead of gold (at my request).





dexterous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2010, 10:46 AM   #45
dexterous
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 23553
Join Date: Aug 2002
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Slippery Rock, PA
Vehicle:
2005 STI - Insanity!
2014 WRX - Daily

Default

With a little luck I should have everything here by Thanksgiving. I took the entire week after Thanksgiving off so I should be able to get a ton of work done and post lots of updates.
dexterous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2010, 09:00 PM   #46
dexterous
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 23553
Join Date: Aug 2002
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Slippery Rock, PA
Vehicle:
2005 STI - Insanity!
2014 WRX - Daily

Default

I know I haven't updated my thread in a long time but I HAVE been working on the car a lot lately. I have been concentrating on the fuel system and I have made significant progress. I hope to have some good picts to post by the end of this weekend so check back on Sunday evening.

I have determined that running the Aeromotive fuel pump controller using the RPM input is a bad idea. As a result I have started working on setting up an output from my hydra to interface with the controller. Its my intention to have the A1000 run at low speed normally and then transition to high speed at some relatively low load setting. I will post specifics on the setup as well as detailed instructions on how to do this once I am done.
dexterous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2010, 11:52 PM   #47
dexterous
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 23553
Join Date: Aug 2002
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Slippery Rock, PA
Vehicle:
2005 STI - Insanity!
2014 WRX - Daily

Default Finally some progress with pictures!

I took few days off between Christmas and New Years to work on the car. I dont want to put the motor in until I get he fuel system totally figured out but I have made significant progress on that. Here's a few pictures detailing my progress:



I placed a specially cut piece of particle board (similar to what you would build a sub box out of) in the bottom of the spare tire well. I covered the board with dark gray carpet (similar to what you would cover a sub box with), drilled a hole in the center for the spare tire bolt and cranked it down. This will give me a nice flat platform to mount everything to. Only a few of the components are actually hooked up you will get the general idea of how I am going to lay everything out.





I mounted the fuel pump controller high on the side of the trunk so that it would never be immersed in either fuel or meth if either system failed. I used grommets and a step drill to create wire / hose pass-throughs which gave it a nice appearance.








I have been modifying cars for my self and others for nearly ten years and I must admit that I found running these fuel lines to be one of the most intimidating things I have done to date. I was not excited about using self-tap screws on the chassis. On the other hand, I was terrified that I would place the fuel lines in a dangerous location that would cause some kind of problem leading to a fire or other emergency. If you have experience in this area and would like to provide feedback on my line placement please do so!

Moving on, I purchased a JEGS "Y" adapter that steps from a single -10 to dual -8 as well as adapters to go from -8 to -6. I am planning on placing the Y on a custom made bracket that will sit on top of the dog bone. I have also decided that the fuel system will feed the rails from the back and return from the front. Phil from Element tuning told me that he feels that the fuel lines to each rail should be as close to equal length as humanly possible. My original plan was to use the fuel pressure regulator as a glorified "T" for the return lines via the second input however my new plan is to "T" the return lines at an equal length and return that to just a single input on the side of the regulator.

More updates coming soon!
dexterous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2010, 07:02 AM   #48
MartinSTi05
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 145145
Join Date: Apr 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Rockford, Il
Vehicle:
2006 wrx STi

Default

Fuel line routing looks alright. Just make sure you don't preliad them against the fittings too much when you terminate them to the y block/FPR.
MartinSTi05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2010, 09:53 AM   #49
dexterous
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 23553
Join Date: Aug 2002
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Slippery Rock, PA
Vehicle:
2005 STI - Insanity!
2014 WRX - Daily

Default

Forgive me but what does "preliad" mean?
dexterous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2010, 10:08 AM   #50
KillerBMotorsport
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 198281
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Virginia
Vehicle:
2005 WRX/STi
WRB of course

Default

I think he meant preload. Meaning have the line tight between fittings.

Just be sure the are not super tight between cable carriers. A little room for expansion/contraction will prevent premature wear of the lines.
KillerBMotorsport is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
VF37 Twin Scroll Turbo and New Tomei Twin Scroll headers/Up pipe arco SCIC Private Classifieds 11 10-22-2010 01:09 AM
Picture of my new Ultimate Racing twin scroll kit blowbyu24 Member's Car Gallery 682 08-24-2010 08:12 AM
VF37 Twin Scroll Turbo and New Tomei Twin Scroll headers/Up pipe arco Engine/Power/Exhaust 9 10-02-2009 01:04 PM
FS VA: JDM manifold, Twin Scroll kit, JDM Genome and more quadzilla Engine/Power/Exhaust 38 09-18-2008 10:22 PM
Pros and cons of twin-scroll turbo! Carisma Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.0L Turbo) 59 07-04-2005 05:06 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.