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Old 08-06-2012, 09:23 PM   #2476
J_Maher_WRX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Celery GT-5
All performance parts have claimed dyno gains, I'm not sure why people seem to trust nameless so much more than anyone else...they sure like to toot their own horn on facebook all the time.

My axleback is supposed to be good for 10hp and 15lb ft according to apexi..lol
http://www.wotm.com/ahyevoaxex0w.html

16hp 18lb ft for the full catback
http://www.wotm.com/arsevocaex0w.html
It's different tho man when a company shows the legitimate gains, gains that are seen each and every dyno run, not just a random run that achieved random peak highs. Like AEM CAI's claim of making over 30hp... Lol

And yes people do tend to trust that more than a BS claim like AEM's, or for some K&N Drop in filter... The Nameless guys were just a few enthusiasts doing this on their spare time. They are enthusiasts, making top quality parts with unsurpassed performance for enthusiasts like us.
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Old 08-06-2012, 09:33 PM   #2477
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I just follow their facebook and they seem way too thrilled with themselves. Also I think the way they weld autozone style single to dual tip splitters on the end of everything looks really lame.

Honestly though the apexi gains seem to be in line with nameless since apexi uses smaller piping and probably a more restrictive muffler...maybe they do give you 21 whp. Have you actually seen an independent party replicate any of these gains though? If you have ever been around a dyno you would know that its very easy to make different numbers come out every time by doing things like running the car over and over so its still hot. I once saw a MS3 gain like 50whp because they sprayed NO2 on the intercooler during a dyno pull, lots of ways to fudge gains...
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Old 08-06-2012, 11:20 PM   #2478
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Originally Posted by J_Maher_WRX View Post
Yeah that's what I thought when I saw them. A lot of it has to do with the downsize of the piping once it hits the Y going into the 2" piping of the axlebacks. The 3" downpipe, midpipe, and absence of mufflers give it fantastic breathing characteristics, and the downsize of the piping near the end helps a lot with retaining that low end torque. Really the best of both worlds, retains low end but is essentially a straight piped exhaust that is awesome at the top end as well.
Hatchback is completely different. IMO, the 08+ hatchback exhausts seem to flow pretty well, and the quad tips even better than the single.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celery GT-5 View Post
All performance parts have claimed dyno gains, I'm not sure why people seem to trust nameless so much more than anyone else...they sure like to toot their own horn on facebook all the time.

My axleback is supposed to be good for 10hp and 15lb ft according to apexi..lol
http://www.wotm.com/ahyevoaxex0w.html

16hp 18lb ft for the full catback
http://www.wotm.com/arsevocaex0w.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Maher_WRX View Post
It's different tho man when a company shows the legitimate gains, gains that are seen each and every dyno run, not just a random run that achieved random peak highs. Like AEM CAI's claim of making over 30hp... Lol

And yes people do tend to trust that more than a BS claim like AEM's, or for some K&N Drop in filter... The Nameless guys were just a few enthusiasts doing this on their spare time. They are enthusiasts, making top quality parts with unsurpassed performance for enthusiasts like us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Celery GT-5 View Post
I just follow their facebook and they seem way too thrilled with themselves. Also I think the way they weld autozone style single to dual tip splitters on the end of everything looks really lame.

Honestly though the apexi gains seem to be in line with nameless since apexi uses smaller piping and probably a more restrictive muffler...maybe they do give you 21 whp. Have you actually seen an independent party replicate any of these gains though? If you have ever been around a dyno you would know that its very easy to make different numbers come out every time by doing things like running the car over and over so its still hot. I once saw a MS3 gain like 50whp because they sprayed NO2 on the intercooler during a dyno pull, lots of ways to fudge gains...
Yeah, I am kind of in the same boat as Celery. I like Nameless and it looks like they have great products, but their Facebook "advertising" comes off as very biased, lol. Maybe that's obvious because it's advertising! But it does seem like a bit much at times. And some people really hang off their every word like it's gospel.

Like their "Stage 1 OTS Tune" that makes more power than everyone else ....and has 21psi and probably is the worst OTS tune you can get. It's possible it was a good custom tune for that car on that day (but 21psi at Stage 1 would be a stretch even for a custom tune), but I highly doubt it will be anywhere close to safe for the vast majority of cars.

You can definitlly skew dyno numbers too. Spraying the intercooler is just one example (and it works quite well). Hot headers vs. cold probably gains more power than a cat back just by doing two runs back to back. The independent dyno results from the Nameless turboback don't look any different than any other Stage 2.

Sorry if it seems like I am bashing Nameless. I think they are great. I just don't think their advertising is anything different than any other company. No one is going to sell something and say that it's worse. It's expected. Anyways, I'm looking forward to my new setup. We'll see if it actually gains any power...
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Old 08-06-2012, 11:36 PM   #2479
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Pretty much. I'm excited to hear the new setup.
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Old 08-06-2012, 11:39 PM   #2480
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Originally Posted by xluben
Hatchback is completely different. IMO, the 08+ hatchback exhausts seem to flow pretty well, and the quad tips even better than the single.

Yeah, I am kind of in the same boat as Celery. I like Nameless and it looks like they have great products, but their Facebook "advertising" comes off as very biased, lol. Maybe that's obvious because it's advertising! But it does seem like a bit much at times. And some people really hang off their every word like it's gospel.

Like their "Stage 1 OTS Tune" that makes more power than everyone else ....and has 21psi and probably is the worst OTS tune you can get. It's possible it was a good custom tune for that car on that day (but 21psi at Stage 1 would be a stretch even for a custom tune), but I highly doubt it will be anywhere close to safe for the vast majority of cars.

You can definitlly skew dyno numbers too. Spraying the intercooler is just one example (and it works quite well). Hot headers vs. cold probably gains more power than a cat back just by doing two runs back to back. The independent dyno results from the Nameless turboback don't look any different than any other Stage 2.

Sorry if it seems like I am bashing Nameless. I think they are great. I just don't think their advertising is anything different than any other company. No one is going to sell something and say that it's worse. It's expected. Anyways, I'm looking forward to my new setup. We'll see if it actually gains any power...
No I agree with most of what you said. Obviously every company has to have some form of advertising

And yes that stage 1 tune is probably good for that specific car, probably not exactly an 'OTS' tune as such. Though everyone knows the Cobb OTS tunes are pretty weak to begin with. I recently got tuned in person by a friend of mine who has 10+ years tuning subarus and even tuning a few Targa Rally Cars, and he considered my TP STage 2 e-tune to be pretty tame. The nameless map might just be the case of an OTS map that is leaning much more towards the aggressive side, though it probably isn't the best for longevity :P

Yeah I'm not sure about the hatches exhaust's dimensions. I know you can now get it from Nameless with no mufflers like the sedan haha

So is that the setup you are going with?? One thing I do like about their exhausts is the completely customizable setups. If you're looking for something a little quieter you can get some 5" mufflers thrown on.
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Old 08-06-2012, 11:48 PM   #2481
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glad to hear TP is considered tame, sounds like a good thing to me. I think the nameless 21psi map is for an STI which can handle a bit more boost in stock form, right?
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Old 08-07-2012, 12:41 AM   #2482
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No I agree with most of what you said. Obviously every company has to have some form of advertising

And yes that stage 1 tune is probably good for that specific car, probably not exactly an 'OTS' tune as such. Though everyone knows the Cobb OTS tunes are pretty weak to begin with. I recently got tuned in person by a friend of mine who has 10+ years tuning subarus and even tuning a few Targa Rally Cars, and he considered my TP STage 2 e-tune to be pretty tame. The nameless map might just be the case of an OTS map that is leaning much more towards the aggressive side, though it probably isn't the best for longevity :P
The way I see it, a big company has more experience but also has a lot more on the line, and therefore much greater liability. They create a tune that is almost fool proof. It makes more power than stock, but it doesn't risk blowing up engines. With smaller companies trying to prove themselves, it's very easy for them to come up with a tune that makes a lot more power, but it can be at the expense of the customer.

It might not be that big of a deal in some cases (ie. I'm positive the TP tunes are still very safe despite making more power than COBB) it's more of just a probability. For example, COBB OTS tunes may be safe on 99% of cars. TP may be safe on 95% of cars. That Nameless tune, maybe 50%. LOL, those are obviously just made up numbers, but you can see what I mean.

If you want a tune that's safe for (nearly) 100% of cars, it means it's going to be quite tame on the vast majority of them. That's why COBB explicitly states to only use a catted downpipe. That's the safe option. That's what makes SURE people don't blow up their cars.

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Yeah I'm not sure about the hatches exhaust's dimensions. I know you can now get it from Nameless with no mufflers like the sedan haha

So is that the setup you are going with?? One thing I do like about their exhausts is the completely customizable setups. If you're looking for something a little quieter you can get some 5" mufflers thrown on.
Another great thing about the Nameless systems is that they all use an OEM compatible connection between the midpipe and axleback. That means you could get a cat back muffler delete setup for loud/good flow and then simply swap the stock muffler back on when you want to be quiet.
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Old 08-07-2012, 09:24 AM   #2483
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One nice thing about the switch is that the exhaust will actually be a lot lighter than stock. Every other exhaust I've had is similar or heavier than the stock one.
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Old 08-07-2012, 12:02 PM   #2484
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Originally Posted by Celery GT-5
glad to hear TP is considered tame, sounds like a good thing to me. I think the nameless 21psi map is for an STI which can handle a bit more boost in stock form, right?
Yeah for sure. I mean the TP map was making some good power, but running pig rich. AFR's of 10.1-10.2 at WOT.

Yeah I'd say it is, every car is different and there's always the odd one that just makes more power or can be pushed a little harder. I'm dearly certain the Nameless tune tapers to like 14psi or something at redline, nothing higher than 18 beyond 4500-5000 I think. So I think that it could still turn out to be a fairly safe tune, still not as safe as TP or Cobb thoo.
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Old 08-07-2012, 01:03 PM   #2485
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OTS tunes, lol.
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Old 08-07-2012, 01:05 PM   #2486
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idk all the people blowing things up seem to be "pro"tuned...lol
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Old 08-07-2012, 01:48 PM   #2487
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Originally Posted by Celery GT-5 View Post
idk all the people blowing things up seem to be "pro"tuned...lol
They are all past stage 2 as well. I wouldn't trust anything OTS past that point and that is probably why tuners don't release those maps for power levels north of stage 2.

Pro tunes are ALWAYS better than a OTS map as long as you go with a reputable tuner. Having a map that is specifically built for your car is the only way to fly. I had a TP map once just to get me through to my pro tune. Even my tuner said it wasn't a bad map, but we ended up making more power...safer...with a true dyno tune.
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Old 08-07-2012, 02:53 PM   #2488
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you can't make a totally safe tune just using a dyno, you need to spend hours on the street trying to replicate all types of driving conditions. Not to mention changes in altitude and weather. I remember when I was messing with KPRO on my RSX a tune that would look totally fine one day would start knocking if the weather changed, there has to be a large safety net for a daily driven car, unless you never leave a certain area or drive in varying weather.
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Old 08-07-2012, 02:56 PM   #2489
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Originally Posted by Celery GT-5 View Post
you can't make a totally safe tune just using a dyno, you need to spend hours on the street trying to replicate all types of driving conditions. Not to mention changes in altitude and weather. I remember when I was messing with KPRO on my RSX a tune that would look totally fine one day would start knocking if the weather changed, there has to be a large safety net for a daily driven car, unless you never leave a certain area or drive in varying weather.
Almost all reputable tuners will road tune the car after spending time on the dyno. You can't say that OTS maps are better than pro tunes...
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Old 08-07-2012, 03:18 PM   #2490
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certainly not for power gains. im still not sold that protunes are safer
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Old 08-07-2012, 03:26 PM   #2491
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certainly not for power gains. im still not sold that protunes are safer
I guess every race team and anything above stage 2 is doing it wrong then.
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Old 08-07-2012, 03:29 PM   #2492
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right "race" team...lol, I'm not talking about racing
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Old 08-07-2012, 03:34 PM   #2493
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right "race" team...lol, I'm not talking about racing
Have you ever had a long conversation with a really good tuner before? Do you know what actually goes into every tune? How they account for changes in atmosphere? How they account for the time of the year they are tuning the car? Differences in fuel sources over the course of the year or where you travel? The questions they ask to make sure the tune is the best it can be fore your car?

My Cobb OTS map knocked like crazy! That was part of the reason I went to TP for my OTS until I was protuned. And...I didn't even end up using that map. He ended up e-tuning my car (version of a protune just based off of logs) until I could get on the dyno.

If you tell your tuner that you want the most power possible, a good one will let you know the risks involved and let you make a decision. In my case, I am still on the stock bottom end so we did a conservative tune (based off of AFR's, Timing and other factors) until I built the block.

So yes...if you tell them to run the motor on the ragged edge, that is not going to be as safe. If you want a daily driving motor that is happy and makes power, a protune is safer overall than a OTS map in most cases.

And yes...race teams. My tuner made sure the TopSpeed GT-R made it all the way through One Lap of America and they won the event. If that doesn't speak to reliability...then I don't know what does...

So for the thread jack xluben...
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Old 08-07-2012, 03:38 PM   #2494
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Yeah we shouldn't thread jack. When is that single exhaust showing up?
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Old 08-07-2012, 04:03 PM   #2495
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A protune can be more or less "safe" than an OTS tune. With a protune you get to choose (if you have a decent tuner). With an OTS tune you have no idea. On one car the OTS tune may be suuuper safe (and down 20WHP), and the same tune on another car might knock until the ringlands crack. That's why OTS tunes are trouble. COBB ones are generally pretty conservative, so most people don't have problems. Eric at TP is always more than accommodating, so I wouldn't hesitate to contact him if you have any questions with your OTS TP tune.

Last edited by xluben; 08-11-2012 at 02:17 AM.
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Old 08-11-2012, 02:18 AM   #2496
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Bored and took a pic.

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Old 08-11-2012, 02:26 AM   #2497
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Bored and took a pic.
Bored so I just went and took a baller pic lol
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Old 08-11-2012, 02:31 AM   #2498
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I would have taken more, but some guy drove in and asked if I was almost done, because he wanted to eat dinner. I have no idea what he meant, but I left anyways. I was the only one in a deserted park.
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Old 08-11-2012, 02:31 AM   #2499
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Oh yeah, he also wanted me to trade cars with him. Lol.
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Old 08-11-2012, 02:55 AM   #2500
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Oh yeah, he also wanted me to trade cars with him. Lol.
F'n hippies...
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