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Old 11-14-2010, 11:17 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
VE is simply equal to the volue of air that is drawn into the engine vs the actual volume of the engine...

VE = actual intake volume / displacement volume
Agreed.
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Old 11-15-2010, 02:22 PM   #77
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You guys are right... I wasn't thinking of VE but rather combustion efficiency.

So the question still stands... why was a/f that far off between tests?

-- Ed
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Old 11-15-2010, 03:13 PM   #78
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So then look at the plots and logs of a tuned setup before and after RIGHT HERE.
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Old 11-15-2010, 03:36 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Equilibrium Tuning View Post
I wasn't thinking of VE but rather combustion efficiency.
I was going to say that you were describing something much closer to that...

it's all good.
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Old 11-15-2010, 04:25 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Equilibrium Tuning View Post

So the question still stands... why was a/f that far off between tests?

-- Ed
probably cause cobb doesnt have OTS maps for a K&N typhoon intake.....

my scalings of an AEM vs K&N Typhoon dont line up at high MAFv.

its probably a combination of the MAF scale being off slightly and the tune sweeping through different (higher) load cells with the header.

Or there was a leak......but the only place that would cause you to run lean is a leak in the turbo inlet hose.

Another possibility is that the IAM was still at 0.5 on the "stage2 with oem header" pull causing the use of the failsafe fueling table which is richer.

Or, they could have just plotted up the wrong car. The name is different on that car......and the date is 5 days prioir while all the other dates and names are the same.
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Old 11-15-2010, 07:03 PM   #81
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Killer B,

Any chance you could design another header with smaller runners? The runners seem to look big in all of the pictures and the collector seems like it would be very turbulent.

Those 4 large pipes flowing into a smaller pipe... i guess that makes sense if you were trying to create velocity... the header still seems to have a decent bit of lag down low.

Have you tried using smaller pipes? any other designs such as the factory JDM header? I know that this style has been done numerous times but if you could use the material you currently are using, make a good alternative that doesnt lag and sell it for less than 700-900$ then you may be on to something... of course, thats if its even possible.
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Old 11-15-2010, 08:24 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by All4bSpinnin View Post
Killer B,

Any chance you could design another header with smaller runners? The runners seem to look big in all of the pictures and the collector seems like it would be very turbulent.

Those 4 large pipes flowing into a smaller pipe... i guess that makes sense if you were trying to create velocity... the header still seems to have a decent bit of lag down low.

Have you tried using smaller pipes? any other designs such as the factory JDM header? I know that this style has been done numerous times but if you could use the material you currently are using, make a good alternative that doesnt lag and sell it for less than 700-900$ then you may be on to something... of course, thats if its even possible.


I can't comment on their design tests and exacts, however the runners don't look large by any means and the collector is fine in design. The theory and design is sound. I take it you haven't done a lot of manifold design work...?
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Old 11-15-2010, 08:44 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by All4bSpinnin View Post
Killer B,

Any chance you could design another header with smaller runners? The runners seem to look big in all of the pictures and the collector seems like it would be very turbulent.

Those 4 large pipes flowing into a smaller pipe... i guess that makes sense if you were trying to create velocity... the header still seems to have a decent bit of lag down low.

Have you tried using smaller pipes? any other designs such as the factory JDM header? I know that this style has been done numerous times but if you could use the material you currently are using, make a good alternative that doesnt lag and sell it for less than 700-900$ then you may be on to something... of course, thats if its even possible.

^ So you want a 10 year old design based on the 2.0 motor that uses more material that costs twice as much as 304 but you want to pay half as much

There are certainly headers out there with smaller primaries and larger ones. You start playing with simulation software and you find what diameter works best for the goals you have. For us it was OEM location turbos. Our primaries are 1.50 ID.

As far as the lag it's 250-150 RPM then crosses and makes a higher peak. Is that laggy? Compared to a lot of headers that have long primaries this is much better (since longer primaries = more volume to pressurize).
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Old 11-21-2010, 10:12 PM   #84
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Last edited by KillerBMotorsport; 11-24-2010 at 11:10 AM.
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Old 11-22-2010, 01:41 AM   #85
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Dang, I wish I had the cash to do a direct comparison between my Maddad EL header with their 45mm uppipe and the KillerB setup.

Looks like a quality part, and I love the way EL headers sound on the subarus.

Nice work guys!,
Josh
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Old 11-22-2010, 07:13 AM   #86
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^ I can tell you how that would go but I keep saying, it's not all about power for our products. Reliability, crack free, leak free, etc., etc... Essentially bang for the buck, and a product that will outlast the car.

We like to think the quality matches our other products, and love the sound too

I still have people tell me they don't like EL headers because it makes the car sound like a Honda, and come to find they've never actually heard a Subaru with an EL header.

Thanks for the kind words!

Chris
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Old 11-22-2010, 08:30 AM   #87
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EL subies sound sexy. They start to sound Porsche'ish...kinda. But still too throaty to ever be compared to a Honda.
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Old 11-22-2010, 05:04 PM   #88
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I'm curious how much of the lag could be eliminated with ceramic coating and/or heat wrapping. The hotter you can keep the exhaust gasses, the higher velocity they have, and the faster they'll spool the turbo.

I can't wait to see the results with the SwainTech coated header. I've used them in the past on a non-Subaru and their coating is VERY good and makes a huge difference in how much heat the pipes conduct. Compared to more traditional coatings like Jet-Hot, the SwainTech stuff is night and day better, although you do pay quite a bit more for it.
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Old 11-22-2010, 05:23 PM   #89
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^ I'm a big proponent of Swaintec coatings as well. If there was a larger window of opportunity I would have gone that route for the prototype. Both of the cars in the videos are wrapped, but this winter when the guinea pig is down I'll have the Killer B header/up Swaintec coated.
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Old 11-26-2010, 11:36 AM   #90
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Thanks for the PMs guys!

We really appreciate all the questions, comments, and compliments. It's been years since a ground-up design has come out and we're very proud of the results we've been getting. Almost a full year of design, software simulations, and testing have made the wait worth it Thanks for the support!
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Old 12-04-2010, 07:14 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post


I can't comment on their design tests and exacts, however the runners don't look large by any means and the collector is fine in design. The theory and design is sound. I take it you haven't done a lot of manifold design work...?
Correct,

I am not a designer and am by no means bashing the manifold... its a quality piece. Just from "looking" at the pictures and comparing this with all of the different headers I have installed in the past it these were just a few things I noticed. Thanks for your input

Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
^ So you want a 10 year old design based on the 2.0 motor that uses more material that costs twice as much as 304 but you want to pay half as much

There are certainly headers out there with smaller primaries and larger ones. You start playing with simulation software and you find what diameter works best for the goals you have. For us it was OEM location turbos. Our primaries are 1.50 ID.

As far as the lag it's 250-150 RPM then crosses and makes a higher peak. Is that laggy? Compared to a lot of headers that have long primaries this is much better (since longer primaries = more volume to pressurize).
The most of the same things that were true 10 years ago are still true today. With most headers on the market all each company is doing is re-inventing the wheel so to speak. Your header is a bit different and I commend you guys for that. Its definitely not a new design but the materials used are nice the the quality so far is really good as well.

There will be a bit of lag... as you said, longer primaries take more to fill. I would like to see this manifold design tested against a perrin/amr/maddad,etc... Also, for most upgraded turbo wrx's and sti's this may be a better choice vs the brands mentioned above for the top end.

I'll keep following this thread and am by no means bashing... just thinking out loud.

It sounds like a real suby should!

Keep up the good work
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Old 12-04-2010, 07:56 PM   #92
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great video and I love the sounds

I'm not a fan of the rumble sound of Subaru UEL exhaust manifold
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Old 12-04-2010, 10:20 PM   #93
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Thanks guys!

I'm not a fan of the UEL manifold either, even when I had my old GPMoto on there it just sounds better. To me, the sound of the OEM manifold (or UEL headers) is the sound of inefficiency. You don't hear a Porsche with the same engine layout making that burble, and there's a good reason for that.
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Old 12-04-2010, 10:41 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
Thanks guys!

I'm not a fan of the UEL manifold either, even when I had my old GPMoto on there it just sounds better. To me, the sound of the OEM manifold (or UEL headers) is the sound of inefficiency. You don't hear a Porsche with the same engine layout making that burble, and there's a good reason for that.
I agree about UEL and inefficiency
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Old 12-21-2010, 08:13 AM   #95
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Someone asked for a clip with a louder cat-back... Thanks to the guys at YimiSport we now have one

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Old 12-30-2010, 01:38 PM   #96
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An how we're tying the header into the NEXT PROJECT
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Old 12-30-2010, 04:02 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
Thanks guys!

I'm not a fan of the UEL manifold either, even when I had my old GPMoto on there it just sounds better. To me, the sound of the OEM manifold (or UEL headers) is the sound of inefficiency. You don't hear a Porsche with the same engine layout making that burble, and there's a good reason for that.
I'm just throwing this out there, but can't you argue that the Porsche has a different manifold design/displacement that gives it a totally different sound than a a 2.5L 4-cylinder?
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Old 12-30-2010, 05:06 PM   #98
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Displacement doesn't change the "burble". If it did a 2.0 WRX would sound different from a 2.5 WRX/STi.

Porsche does have a boxer engine and thier manifold has similarities, but the firing order is different, which would make our OEM headers sound completely different, more like an EL. Because of our firing order we have to tie ports from the 2 heads together to get the same effect, EL.
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Old 03-27-2011, 04:53 PM   #99
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Just an FYI on our header. V2 now is available and has extra clearance around the oil filter.

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Old 03-27-2011, 08:35 PM   #100
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anyway to change out the V1 header for the V2
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