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Old 01-29-2010, 11:59 PM   #1
Maxwell Power
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Default MPS- Dom's 2.35L STi engine build

I get a LOT of questions about these destroked EJ257 engines. I've designed a bunch of them, built a couple and sold ZERO.

So I decided that it was time to do one for myself. I have another one that is in my RS that I don't have completed. That one is what I could consider the "wild" build and therefore not really going to provide us with the information that many people seek.

This one is what I think is going to be the "typical" build. I'm using as many off the shelf items as possible to keep the cost down and make it very typical of what will be built by the average subaru owner. The wild build is for the ones who are seeking extreme high rpm power.


A little info on the "wild" build
EJ257 block
EJ207 crank
Custom Carillo rods 134.5mm
Custom JE Pistons with tool steel wrist pins
Balanced and blueprinted to less than .1 grams.
(PITA to put together!!!! Long rods and short stroke means the wrist pins don't line up to the wrist pin holes on the block. These means you can't put the case halves together until you get the pistons on the rods. This process sucks because you are certain to get gasket goop everywhere.)

CNC Ported S20 heads (That's the regular EJ20 head)
Ferrea +1mm valves (SS int and Super Alloy exhaust)
Ferrea dual spring valve springs
Custom 272 intake and 264 exhaust cams.
Prototype MPS Oil reservior and pressure regulator
11mm Oil pump

Unfortunately, it's been sitting in the car for about 8 months now waiting on a wiring harness.

Here's the info on the build that this thread will be mostly about:
*New EJ257 block
*Standard EJ20 crank
*ACL bearings
*Blueprinted and balanced to MPS Specs
*OTS JE Pistons
*MPS +2mm rods w/ oil squirters and ARP L19 bolts

*07 STi heads (V25)
*Brian Crower 272 () cams
*Supertech valve springs
*Custom poly-quad valve setup **
*No porting
*Grimmspeed Phenalic spacers
*Grimmspeed TGV deletes
*ID 1000cc injectors
*factory fuel rails
*09 FXT rotated intake manifold (the black plastic one like in the LGT) **
*Perrin FMIC
*UR GT35R rotated turbo setup. Hopefully our prototype system will be complete in time to run it on the car, but I'm not holding my breath.
*Tial 44mm EWG with extended dump tube
*Kakumei UL headers (very very nice and a lot closer to being equal length than you think)

** indicates the only "wild cards" in the build that I can think of. Everything else is pretty standard.



pics tomorrow
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Old 01-30-2010, 12:00 AM   #2
Maxwell Power
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Last edited by Maxwell Power; 02-01-2010 at 12:59 PM.
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Old 01-30-2010, 12:00 AM   #3
Maxwell Power
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Last edited by Maxwell Power; 02-13-2010 at 07:34 PM.
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Old 01-30-2010, 12:38 AM   #4
hobbesnapoli
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"*Brian Crower 272 () cams"

Not a fan?

*Custom poly-quad valve setup **

Sounds a bit intense for typical... unless you're just use 1mm oversize across the chamber- that's reasonable
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Old 01-30-2010, 10:24 AM   #5
FuJi K
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It seems people are "AFRAID" to run a setup like this. Everyone is... they don't wanna be guinea pigs. If I was mean.. I'd post all about my setup, get it working... then say..
"sorry I don't know how it works.... I'm sure you can find info if you so a search."
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Old 01-30-2010, 11:21 AM   #6
juanmedina
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BC 272 cams how could u?
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Old 01-30-2010, 05:10 PM   #7
Turbo_Mike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FuJi K View Post
It seems people are "AFRAID" to run a setup like this. Everyone is... they don't wanna be guinea pigs. If I was mean.. I'd post all about my setup, get it working... then say..
"sorry I don't know how it works.... I'm sure you can find info if you so a search."
Heh thats about all I ran into when I was building mine :-(
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Old 01-30-2010, 05:43 PM   #8
Maxwell Power
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbesnapoli View Post
"*Brian Crower 272 () cams"

Not a fan?

*Custom poly-quad valve setup **

Sounds a bit intense for typical... unless you're just use 1mm oversize across the chamber- that's reasonable

I like the BC 272 cams as a small cam upgrade. I just find it hilarious that they dub them "272". They aren't anywhere near that. Their profile is closer to most other manufacturers 254 or 260. A lot of people run the BCs because of their price, and thus it becomes more "typical" than Kelford cams.

My poly quad design isn't very extravagant in this head. I have four different valves in each chamber. They are all cut differently. half are dished and half aren't. Half have different back cuts on the valves. They are all factory diameter.
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Old 01-30-2010, 10:43 PM   #9
timeXlost
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how come the fxt plastic mani? less heat retention than stock?
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Old 01-31-2010, 12:05 AM   #10
cellgeek101
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Looking forward to seeing some results.
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Old 01-31-2010, 12:19 AM   #11
Cbgrandtheftauto
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lol'd at your...

Brian Crower 272 () cams
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Old 01-31-2010, 12:55 AM   #12
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so now the 'designers' are both waiting on wiring harnesses I think it's sad that one of my prototype engines is running before my personal engine. Can't wait to see your RS running again bud

I do have a tip that makes shortblock assembly a sinch. I'll call you about it.
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Old 01-31-2010, 01:24 PM   #13
Maxwell Power
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timeXlost View Post
how come the fxt plastic mani? less heat retention than stock?
I like the plenum and runner design.
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Old 02-01-2010, 10:30 AM   #14
kevinh211
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great thread i can't wait to see some results.
while on paper the long rod setup sounds great, does it offer any benifits for a street car over a 2.5ltr that most people would build with those parts listed?
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Old 02-01-2010, 11:25 AM   #15
rexworx
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+1 Great Idea, Ive had alot of interest in a destroked 2.5
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Old 02-01-2010, 12:34 PM   #16
Maxwell Power
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinh211 View Post
great thread i can't wait to see some results.
while on paper the long rod setup sounds great, does it offer any benifits for a street car over a 2.5ltr that most people would build with those parts listed?

we're going to find out.
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Old 02-01-2010, 12:40 PM   #17
Maxwell Power
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rexworx View Post
+1 Great Idea, Ive had alot of interest in a destroked 2.5

The EJ22T is a great engine. A lot of people, including myself, have had great success with an EJ22T. It's the same stroke as the EJ20 with a bigger bore.

We just went bigger with the bore by destroking the EJ257. What kind of gains are we going to get over the EJ257? Probably just the ability to rev higher than a 2.5L.


Here is what the basic engineering and experience has shown:
2.0L: spools turbos slow. Revs out great when built properly. Just look at the EJ07
2.5L: Spools turbos much faster and doesn't rev quite as well.
2.6L: Spools them even faster and doesn't rev as well as the 2.5L

The 2.35 should spool faster than a 2L, slower than a 2.5L but rev out better than the 2.5 and hopefully better than the 2L due to the extra rod length. However, piston weight is going to hinder the performance a bit on the top end.

I built this engine to get actual answers to the questions. I can't answer a lot of them until I get this built.
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Old 02-01-2010, 01:00 PM   #18
Maxwell Power
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pictures are up of the first stage of blueprinting
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Old 02-01-2010, 01:01 PM   #19
rexworx
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Great! keep us updated...
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Old 02-01-2010, 01:07 PM   #20
cpturbo
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A couple of questions... I have spoken to you about this build and I am interested. With lighter pistons, do you think that the high rpm power/performance will be as good as the 2.0?

Also, re: that manifold, are you going to make it Drive by wire or cable driven? Do you have a cost of the manifold.

Thanks
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Old 02-01-2010, 01:23 PM   #21
Maxwell Power
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpturbo View Post
A couple of questions... I have spoken to you about this build and I am interested. With lighter pistons, do you think that the high rpm power/performance will be as good as the 2.0?

Also, re: that manifold, are you going to make it Drive by wire or cable driven? Do you have a cost of the manifold.

Thanks
my 07STi is DBW and I'm not about the change that. I hate DBW, but I like a functioning cruise control because I can't drive 55.

as far as cost, it's a regular Subaru intake. I think they run like 400 or 500 dollars. I got this off of a complete engine I purchased so I don't know what it costs individually.

re: piston weight. I have no real world experience on the effects of piston weight. I've never torn a rod in half. I ran my 2.5L to 8300 routinely without problems. I doubt the average person will even notice anything to do with piston weight from one motor to the next.
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Old 02-01-2010, 02:50 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinh211 View Post
great thread i can't wait to see some results.
while on paper the long rod setup sounds great, does it offer any benifits for a street car over a 2.5ltr that most people would build with those parts listed?
The one runnign prototype from my customers is loving it. He is also on a big bore setup...his engine is a smidge under the EJ257.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cpturbo View Post
A couple of questions... I have spoken to you about this build and I am interested. With lighter pistons, do you think that the high rpm power/performance will be as good as the 2.0?
One factor in the longer rod is just that, the longer rod ratio. Accelerations are decreased while piston weight does increase. There is a crossing point of the two however. Also keep in mind the reduced weight from the factory rod.

Looking good bud
What's your ETA on the harness...and mine when it arrives later this week?
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Old 02-01-2010, 07:08 PM   #23
hustleshark206
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Bad ass man. Pumped to see some good results from this build


Perhaps a ride in the STI when she is all put back together
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Old 02-01-2010, 07:44 PM   #24
kevinh211
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i see you have the flywheel and pulley pictured, are you going to balance everything?
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Old 02-01-2010, 08:04 PM   #25
juanmedina
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What is max rev limit on this engine? What oil system will u be using?

I also like the fact that the decrease of torque from the 2.5L should be a little easier on the tranny for guys like me running a built 5sp.
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