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Old 09-27-2012, 01:30 AM   #1526
Paul
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Originally Posted by maxpowr View Post
maybe the front o2 wasnt bad and i can get a refund!
Id still replace it if its over a couple years old... to me the piece of mind with how cheap they are is worth the $$
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Old 09-27-2012, 09:49 AM   #1527
NSFW
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Originally Posted by Layvon View Post
Is that bad to do? Typically easing into it is what I do, but will definitely not stab if it is bad
Tip-in only happens when you stab the throttle, so if you're easing into it, then tip-in isn't happening.

Stabbing the throttle isn't bad, I do it all the time. I just couldn't get my head around tip-in and cruising at the same time.

For tip-in to come into play, the throttle opening angle has to increase so much and so quickly that the MAF sensor by itself can't react quickly enough to keep AFR on track. So the ECU sprays a little bit of extra fuel to compensate for that.

The stock ECU has a parameter that you can watch to see when tip-in gets applied. RomRaider calls it "Tip-In (Last Calculated)" or something like that. If that number changes, tip-in happened. If it's not changing, tip-in isn't happening and the ECU is relying on the MAF sensor. The actual amount that it changes will seem kind of random. I don't see it in cruise, I mostly only see it when shifting, starting from a stop, or flooring it.

And it's pretty short-lived. The initial tip-in spray is almost instantaneous, and AFR might fluctuate for half-second or a second after that. Whereas the stumble I have will happen every 2-5 seconds or so, at constant throttle.
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Old 09-27-2012, 11:13 AM   #1528
Maxwell Power
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NSFW

Tip-in only happens when you stab the throttle, so if you're easing into it, then tip-in isn't happening.

Stabbing the throttle isn't bad, I do it all the time. I just couldn't get my head around tip-in and cruising at the same time.

For tip-in to come into play, the throttle opening angle has to increase so much and so quickly that the MAF sensor by itself can't react quickly enough to keep AFR on track. So the ECU sprays a little bit of extra fuel to compensate for that.

The stock ECU has a parameter that you can watch to see when tip-in gets applied. RomRaider calls it "Tip-In (Last Calculated)" or something like that. If that number changes, tip-in happened. If it's not changing, tip-in isn't happening and the ECU is relying on the MAF sensor. The actual amount that it changes will seem kind of random. I don't see it in cruise, I mostly only see it when shifting, starting from a stop, or flooring it.

And it's pretty short-lived. The initial tip-in spray is almost instantaneous, and AFR might fluctuate for half-second or a second after that. Whereas the stumble I have will happen every 2-5 seconds or so, at constant throttle.
Change your throttle table at the low region where you have the stumble. Some cars if I change the target so that it requires more input to maintain speed, the stumble goes away. When I log the stumble you can see changes in requested torque and sometimes even overrun fueling kick in.
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Old 09-27-2012, 12:44 PM   #1529
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Originally Posted by NSFW View Post
Injector correction is an interesting theory, if it really fixes the problem I'll see if I can get those tables added to RomRaider/EcuFlash.
DO IT!
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Old 09-27-2012, 03:04 PM   #1530
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U can use the per Inj fueling comps to tune out stumbles
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Old 09-27-2012, 03:20 PM   #1531
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U can use the per Inj fueling comps to tune out stumbles
sometimes
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Old 09-27-2012, 04:27 PM   #1532
binjoau
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Power

sometimes
Im sure it will get figured out

I'm excited for my new meth gauge to turn up so I can feel the cars full potential for a week or 2 before it gets put away
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Old 10-10-2012, 07:17 PM   #1533
binjoau
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Well a little bit of an update, the car is performing great apart from the stumble which sadly has got a lot worse with the drop in temperature over the last week. Its still a work in progress so we will see how it goes.

Also my meth guage wasnt sent sadly, it was a the wrong part. I wont get to feel the car back at the full 510WHP till next season but I am just glad its running lol. Although lets face it its probably asking for trouble till the 6 speed is in haha

I did get the opportunity to take it around for a little bit of AutoX on the weekend just gone with our local Subaru Owners Club which was awesome fun. There are always lots of people interested in the rotated manifold setup on the car and its unique piping so it was cool to show it off a bit.

As it stands I am just in the process of saving up for the trans swap and a few little exterior touchups! Il keep you guys updated
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Old 10-30-2012, 06:15 PM   #1534
binjoau
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Well..... as time goes on I would like to keep this thread updated

The stumble I had has been a real issue over the past few weeks but after some diagnosis turned out to be a faulty front o2 sensor causing too much closed loop fuel correction. It's replaced now and is much smoother while cruising.

The car after the tune revision I received is still seeing some knock in 3rd gear higher rpm and 4th gear which I didn't realize till seeing fuel cut. I thought it was running great and was pulling strong etc.
As the car is also over boosting a bit I am currently working with Dom to get tune revisions to make the car safe to drive. Sadly I still haven't received my meth gauge yet in order to run the car at its full potential or any tune revisions to enjoy the car fully before winter, I cannot say this isn't partially because of the stumble but also because of MPS' workload.

Dom is apparently very busy and finding it hard to find time to e-tune the car and suggests I find another tuner or fly him out here to finish the car.
This is a little bit frustrating but at this stage I am thinking of selling the car and moving this motor into a new STI. Then I would probably warrant flying Dom out here to tune an entirely different car at more cost to myself.

We will see how things go over the winter and if I do decide to buy a new STI it will be nice to instantly have 500whp in it haha

Last edited by binjoau; 11-02-2012 at 01:06 PM.
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Old 10-31-2012, 02:12 AM   #1535
project_skyline
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E-tuners are a dime a dozen. Even half decent ones, most don't even charge squat either.

Find someone and get the car running tip top.
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Old 10-31-2012, 08:21 AM   #1536
binjoau
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Quote:
Originally Posted by project_skyline
E-tuners are a dime a dozen. Even half decent ones, most don't even charge squat either.

Find someone and get the car running tip top.
I will do this as a last resort, I understand they are a very busy shop so am being patient.

Does anyone know of any reason why my engine wouldn't drop straight into an STI? I know the STI is dual avcs and my engine only single but that's ecu controlled anyway. I'm wondering if the harness would be compatible?
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Old 10-31-2012, 09:16 AM   #1537
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So wait a minute.

Your saying that the car had an issue which MPS thought was tune related (the stumble). After some back and forth tune tweaks and troubleshooting, it turns out the front O2 took a dump. No problem with that, things break, but now after replacing it, your tune is off, which makes sense since Dom was tuning around an issue until it was diagnosed, and now he is saying that in order to get the car back to where it was you have to either fly him out to you or go find someone else to do it?!

Please tell me that I'm wrong here.

Last edited by biodude; 10-31-2012 at 09:25 AM.
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Old 10-31-2012, 09:25 AM   #1538
binjoau
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No my tune was off because of the gas here in Saskatchewan Canada where I live is a lower grade than in Marysville where the MPS shop is. This was something that was obviously talked about when I purchased a full motor setup.

The stumble only occurred after having the car home for a few weeks as the front o2 sensor was suffering from the tune being out. This ultimately slowed progress getting revisions but I need to have something done so it's running safely at least.

I am waiting for Dom to get back from SEMA to hopefully get the car adjusted correctly again. I know they are busy and there have been issues along the way but I would like to be able to enjoy the car without fear of damaging it. I think Dom needs a secretary so he has more free time, I mean I'm not an expert tuner.

At the moment I am not even hitting boost in the car, just cruising from A-B

Last edited by binjoau; 10-31-2012 at 09:38 AM.
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Old 10-31-2012, 09:57 AM   #1539
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Ah, thanks for the clarification. I was hoping I just read things wrong. I bugged Dom quite a bit with stuff after receiving my block from MPS and overall he was really great with supporting the build and answering my questions. Sometimes it would take a bit to hear form him, but there were also times that we'd be having trouble shooting session via email until late into the night.

I have to say, given the saga of a build this has been, your level of patience is vastly greater than mine. IBoldandgrumpy
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Old 11-02-2012, 11:19 AM   #1540
binjoau
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Long Rod Motor

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Quote:
Originally Posted by biodude
Ah, thanks for the clarification. I was hoping I just read things wrong. I bugged Dom quite a bit with stuff after receiving my block from MPS and overall he was really great with supporting the build and answering my questions. Sometimes it would take a bit to hear form him, but there were also times that we'd be having trouble shooting session via email until late into the night.

I have to say, given the saga of a build this has been, your level of patience is vastly greater than mine. IBoldandgrumpy
I try to be as patient as possible and I always tell myself after waiting for nearly a year to have the car back what's another week it two to get it running correctly.

Dom always replies but it takes time and I understand that they are essentially only a 3 man operation. I mean the guy put me up in his house for the weekend, you can't get better customer service than that! Lol.

Winter is closing in now anyway but I know he isn't happy knowing my cars not tuned perfectly either, hence the recommendation to fly out and set it up. Il just wait until I can get some more revisions and get back to enjoying the car. Hopefully my meth gauge will turn up soon too and I can really feel the full potential of the setup again!
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Old 11-05-2012, 01:24 AM   #1541
maxpowr
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have you considered asking phatron to help you out? rons a great tuner. he may feel a lil odd taking over doms tune, but if dome prefers to pass it on, than so be it.

ron may also be skeptical with working on a such a complicated schedule...get tuned at your own risk right?

i mean we all know ron is competent.
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Old 11-05-2012, 09:24 AM   #1542
binjoau
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxpowr
have you considered asking phatron to help you out? rons a great tuner. he may feel a lil odd taking over doms tune, but if dome prefers to pass it on, than so be it.

ron may also be skeptical with working on a such a complicated schedule...get tuned at your own risk right?

i mean we all know ron is competent.
I totally agree that Ron is a great tuner, seeing as with this project Dom has essentially done 99%, it makes sense to have him finish even if it takes a bit longer lol.

I may consider Ron if I do switch this motor into a new STI. I need to know if I can use my current engine wiring harness though, I may even start a new thread on the subject. If the main harness connector is the same and the most engine sensors then in theory I should be able to drop it in and tune it.

I am curious too if the new STI engine will go straight into my 09 WRX. I mean I know it won't be able to run dual avcs without extra wiring but I'm not sure if I'm even bothered lol. Especially if I'm just going to sell it.
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Old 11-05-2012, 10:03 AM   #1543
manitou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by binjoau

I totally agree that Ron is a great tuner, seeing as with this project Dom has essentially done 99%, it makes sense to have him finish even if it takes a bit longer lol.

I may consider Ron if I do switch this motor into a new STI. I need to know if I can use my current engine wiring harness though, I may even start a new thread on the subject. If the main harness connector is the same and the most engine sensors then in theory I should be able to drop it in and tune it.

I am curious too if the new STI engine will go straight into my 09 WRX. I mean I know it won't be able to run dual avcs without extra wiring but I'm not sure if I'm even bothered lol. Especially if I'm just going to sell it.
Or sell your current heads and build some DAVCS heads for the new car. I can't remember if your 09 WRX is CANbus or OBDII but I think that will be a factor in this swap. The newer 08+ STI's are CANbus and DAVCS.
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Old 11-05-2012, 10:15 AM   #1544
Delphi
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I don't know if Sask has this gas, but have you tried Huskey 94 Oct or Petro 94? I know here in Alberta we have them and it's what I am tuned on.
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Old 11-05-2012, 10:15 AM   #1545
binjoau
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manitou

Or sell your current heads and build some DAVCS heads for the new car. I can't remember if your 09 WRX is CANbus or OBDII but I think that will be a factor in this swap. The newer 08+ STI's are CANbus and DAVCS.
Hmm, I know the car has an OBDII port but I'm assuming your talking about its engine management? I would think they would be the same as they are newer gen but if anyone knows for sure please chime in!
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Old 11-05-2012, 10:17 AM   #1546
binjoau
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delphi
I don't know if Sask has this gas, but have you tried Huskey 94 Oct or Petro 94? I know here in Alberta we have them and it's what I am tuned on.
We have one gas station here that has 94 but Dom said it has consistency issues normally and can be more knock prone.

Could I not just add race gas to every tank? Lol
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Old 11-05-2012, 12:17 PM   #1547
manitou
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Originally Posted by binjoau View Post
Hmm, I know the car has an OBDII port but I'm assuming your talking about its engine management? I would think they would be the same as they are newer gen but if anyone knows for sure please chime in!
I knew that Subaru mad the change to CANbus on the WRX in the last few years but I could not remember when, STI's was in 08. Yours is still OBDII.
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Old 11-05-2012, 12:47 PM   #1548
binjoau
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manitou

I knew that Subaru mad the change to CANbus on the WRX in the last few years but I could not remember when, STI's was in 08. Yours is still OBDII.
I'm assuming that would make things much more difficult
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Old 11-05-2012, 12:52 PM   #1549
manitou
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Originally Posted by binjoau View Post
I'm assuming that would make things much more difficult
I'm not an expert on this but I think it's just the DAVCS heads that will really matter. The blocks are the same, you'd just have to swap some stuff over and you're obviously keeping the 6 speed which has a CANbus speed sensor on the bell housing.
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Old 11-05-2012, 01:12 PM   #1550
binjoau
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Originally Posted by manitou

I'm not an expert on this but I think it's just the DAVCS heads that will really matter. The blocks are the same, you'd just have to swap some stuff over and you're obviously keeping the 6 speed which has a CANbus speed sensor on the bell housing.
Well I would like to keep my entire block and my reversed intake manifold setup too. I don't care about not having DAVCS, I'm just hoping that the engine wiring harness would plug straight into the main bulkhead and then require tuning.

I doubt it's ever been done before lol
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