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Old 11-18-2010, 07:01 PM   #1
Zaider
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Default So you're thinking about doing a swap...

I wrote this after completing my project. I swapped a V7 JDM STI (EJ207) into my Bugeye RS. The swap included:
- Engine
- 6 speed (non-DCCD)
- Driveshaft, rear diff, axles, knuckles, hubs, brembos
- JDM STI Headlights
- The wiring merge was done by Brian at iWire (highly highly recommend him)

The point of this is not to preach or anything like that. Its just to give people a bit more information so when they are contemplating doing their first swap, they have a better idea of what to expect.

A disclaimer: This is MY TAKE on it. Your experience with your own swap might have been completely different. This is just my experience and hopefully it helps someone out.

Also... the costs associated with doing a swap in Canada might be different than the costs associated with doing it elsewhere.



So You're Thinking About Doing a Swap


Since I finished my V7 STI Swap in May, Iíve been getting a great number of PMís from people that are trying to figure out if they can or should do a swap themselves. In the interests of saving me from having to rewrite the same message over and over again, I thought I would publish my take on it here. This is not meant to be a guide or a final say on whether or not you should do a swap, but hopefully it provides some insight and gives you some food for thought on whether or not you decide to do a swap.

Some background:

Three years ago, I was into cars but knew very little mechanically. In fact, wingless will remember the day that I came over to his house and it took us 2 full hours to install a cat-back exhaust, mostly because I didnít know what I was doing. Over the next two years, I learned a bit more about cars and how to turn a wrench but I was by no means an expert at anything and still asked a lot of questions (I still do!).

As of the end of last summer (2009), I would say that I was fairly confident mechanically but knew that there was still a lot to learn. I guess I was looking for an excuse to do a swap, and when my head gasket started to go, that was what I was looking for.

So armed with some disposable income, a lack of responsibility and what I thought was a fair bit of time on my hands, I dove right into a complete swap.

And so we come to my first bit of advice: Reasons to do a Swap

There are many reasons to do a swap but the most important thing is to have a clear cut reason as to why YOU want to do it. As with asking advice on a future modification, youíre going to be asked what your goals are. Are you planning on building a track car? Are you planning on building a show car? Or do you just want to do a swap for the sake of doing it? There are those reasons and many in between, but whatever your reason, make sure youíre clear on it. That will help you make your decisions in the future and, over the course of the swap, give you something to remember when you run into difficulties and want to give up.

The added bonus of this is that when people ask you why you didnít just buy an STI to begin with, youíll have something to tell them. And trust me, theyíll tell you that.

Now, lets focus on the disposable income part of the equation. First of all, have a budget in mind before you start. I was lucky in that I had a fair bit of money that I could spend on a swap, but that doesnít mean that I didnít have limits to what I was willing to spend. Alright, now, have a budget in mind? Add on a few thousand. Trust me. Thereís always going to be incidentals and yes, maybe you can sell your old engine and other parts, but you might not find a buyer when you want to or you might be asking too much for it.

Iíve gotten a lot of questions about how much the swap cost me. Ill tell you this much. The entire JDM clip, plus hood, headlights, brembos and shipping cost me over $10k. That was just from one vendor. With the added costs of a wiring merge, misc parts and random tools I needed, you can imagine that the cost was a fair bit more than that. I canít give you an exact number cause I donít know it. I donít really want to go through my receipts and calculate it.

Im not saying you canít afford it, but I am saying that itís a consideration. Not many people have that kind of cash laying around and if they do, they might not realize how quickly the costs can spiral out of control and before you know it, youíre broke with a car on jack stands.

Next is the time consideration. This all depends on how experienced you are mechanically and the extent of your swap. Going from an RS to an STI takes more time cause you need to strip out the dash wiring harness and either merge it or have it merged for you. Then youíve got to put it back in. Are you swapping a six-speed? Then youíve got to do the drive-shaft, rear diff, axles, hubs/knuckles etc. Trust me, getting the e-brake set up isnít all its cracked up to be.

What Im getting at is that, for the average person, doing a swap is going to take you longer than you think. Many friends have reminded me that when I first started, I prophesized that it would only take me three weekends. Nine months later, I rolled the car out of the garage for the first time. Trust me. Life gets in the way. You get tired of spending all your time in a cold garage. It ended up that I could work on the swap maybe 1 day during the week and even then, that was sometimes a stretch. I figured I could work a few hours after work every day, but that rarely happened. I was tired and having a life and doing a swap seem to be mutually exclusive.

Another factor is waiting for parts that you need to order that you didnít think about. If you snap a bolt or something is seized, youíre going to have to order it from Subaru, and let me tell you, they donít stock all the parts you need to build a car. Surprise surprise.

The point is, budget a lot more time than you think. Especially if its your first swap and youíll have to figure out things as you go. Thereís always going to be problem areas (like the e-brake or dropping a sensor behind the turbo) and its going to take extra time and cause you extra frustration. If youíre debating a swap, chances are good that youíve been involved in a part install that took way longer than it should have. Think about that, but multiplied over many parts over an entire car.

Now that weíve dealt with the time and money factors of doing a swap, lets talk about how hard it actually is. Ill tell you right now: for the most part, its not hard. At least, I didnít find it hard. Oh, thereís going to be frustrations at things like stubborn bolts, parts that donít fit right and ďoh yeah, where does this plug go? I hope its not important!Ē but especially with Subarus, theyíre built like lego. You can take em apart and put em back together again and it is pretty straightforward. Now, the most important aspect of this is doing your research. Have a plan. Have a list. Have something that tells you what is coming up so you donít need to redo any work. Make sure you have both the service manuals for your original car and the one for the new engine. Youíll need them for torque specs and they provide good instructions for how to remove components.
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Old 11-18-2010, 07:01 PM   #2
Zaider
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As for the wiring merge, I couldn’t tell you how hard it is. I sent mine away to Brian at iWire in California. It took him a night and I had it back in my hands within a week. I needed to splice in the fuel pump controller and that’s it. For the most part, the wiring harness goes back in quite easily. The plugs have been in that position for so long that the wires naturally bend in the correct directions and its obvious which plugs are for what. There’s going to be a few that you have no idea about, so it’s a good idea to label things as you go along. Oh yeah, when buying your clip, make sure that it comes with the full wiring harness. You might be able to do it with a cut one, but its way way way easier to have a full one. For those wondering, about the merge, send a pm to Silent. He's been doing them as well.

Another piece of advice I can give you is to take lots of pictures. Yes, its nice to be able to show people your progress, but if you take before-after pictures, you can go back later when you’ve forgotten how something was oriented and use the pictures to help you.

Next. Don’t attempt a swap completely by yourself. I had two great guys helping me. They came out most of the times I was working on the car, braving the –30 temperatures and helped me get my car back on the road. I owe them big time. First of all, for safety. When you’re under the car and nudge a jack-stand with your foot, its nice to know that there’s someone standing right there in case the worst should happen. Get something in your eye? Your friend is there to help you out. Next, for convenience. When you’re under the car, its quite helpful to have someone standing next to the tools who can hand you the 14mm wrench that you neglected to bring with you.

Also, it is really helpful to have a community such as the Western Subaru Club or Nasioc to help you out when you’ve got questions. I can’t count the number of times I posted in my project thread looking for the answer to something that had me stumped only to check back an hour later and have someone answer it. You quickly find out that there is a real wealth of knowledge here. It also never hurts to have a couple guys who have done the swap before on speed dial. There are a few guys on here who have gotten numerous panicked phone calls from me when I couldn’t figure something out.

Next, I’ve said it before, RESEARCH RESEARCH RESEARCH. Research everything you do before you do it. Make sure you know what you’re doing. I ran into several problems because I thought I knew what I was doing and messed it up. The power steering lines, the cruise control, the e-brake, the ball joints… in hindsight, I should have researched a lot more before jumping head first into the swap.

Finally, make sure you’re ready for the post-swap issues. You’re never going to finish something this big and have everything work perfectly. Be aware that no matter how careful you are, you’re going to have some sort of issue. So far, I’ve gone through three upper radiator hoses (and three corresponding coolant changes after it ended up all over my engine), I broke the universal steering joint and ran into a curb after I lost steering, I’ve rubbed a hole through the AC pipe and have a leaky axle seal. There’s other small issues as well, like the ABS warning light and the fact that my front bumper no longer fits perfectly. Also, be prepared to be obsessive about every single noise you hear. Trust me, there’s nothing that can explain the level of paranoia you get when you’ve taken a car completely apart and then you think you hear a phantom noise while you’re going around a corner at 110kph on the highway. Be prepared to want to get rid of it and stick with oem reliability. I thought I would never want to sell the car, but the number of times its crossed my mind… I can’t even tell you. Think of that as a warning… people had told me about it, but I had ignored them and said “No, im different”. Trust me, I wasn’t and Im not.

Alright, so, after reading this, you’re either thinking: “No, I shouldn’t do a swap, I hadn’t thought of these things before.” Or you’re thinking “Nope, I’ve thought of all this and I still want to do a swap myself.”

To those of you who don’t think you’re ready for a swap, that’s a brave move to accept that. My advice is to keep building your confidence on the small stuff and work your way up to it.

To those of you who think you’re ready to attempt it, Great! It’s a very rewarding experience when all is said and done. When someone asks you something about your car, you can be confident in talking about it, cause you’ve built it from the ground up. Sure there are other cars that are faster or better, but their owners most likely haven’t put the time and effort into their cars like you did to yours. There is nothing I’ve experienced so far in life like turning over the new engine for the first time. Not even pulling it out of the garage compared to that first turn of the key. It was explained to me as being better than sex, and I can’t argue with that.

Alright. That’s my take on doing a swap. There are going to be people who want to debate my points, for instance, you can do it in a lot shorter time, and for cheaper, but this was my experience with it. Everyone’s is going to be different. If I can leave you with one final piece of advice, it is to be prepared for the highs and lows and the unexpected cause nothing is ever as simple as it seems.

If you’ve still got questions, feel free to send me a pm and I’ll do my best to answer them.

Last edited by Zaider; 11-27-2010 at 12:18 PM.
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Old 11-18-2010, 07:02 PM   #3
Zaider
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Old 11-19-2010, 02:24 PM   #4
MConte05
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Great advice! I am just about ready to pull the trigger on my own v8 JDM STI swap. It has been 4 months so far from when my engine blew. Been saving up money, researching, buying small parts to go along with the build (gauges, wiring, etc.), researching, and some more researching. Like you said. That is absolutely the most important part!
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Old 11-23-2010, 09:39 PM   #5
Zaider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MConte05 View Post
Great advice! I am just about ready to pull the trigger on my own v8 JDM STI swap. It has been 4 months so far from when my engine blew. Been saving up money, researching, buying small parts to go along with the build (gauges, wiring, etc.), researching, and some more researching. Like you said. That is absolutely the most important part!

Thanks.

Another thing that I should mention is make sure you are friendly with a Parts guy at the closest dealership. We're on a first-name basis and I get a nice discount... definitely helps
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Old 11-23-2010, 10:58 PM   #6
Jagular1785
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Subbed! How are you tuning on the motor, the factory ecu? Does it compensate for the US gas? Does it perform to your liking?

Thanks!
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Old 11-24-2010, 07:57 PM   #7
Zaider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagular1785 View Post
Subbed! How are you tuning on the motor, the factory ecu? Does it compensate for the US gas? Does it perform to your liking?

Thanks!

Im actually lucky enough to live in the same city as the one and only Airboy (of spreadsheet fame ) so he open-source tuned the stock 16-bit ECU for me. Before turning it over the first time, the fueling map was adjusted to run fairly rich. That way there was no problem with running on old gas/north american gas.. etc. It was also just running on wastegate pressure at that point.

Im actually in Canada and we have 94 octane up here (10% ethanol blend). I was running that during the tune and yeah... it runs quite nicely I would definitely recommend getting a strange ECU/motor tuned after doing a swap. You have no idea what maps the previous owner was running and what the gas is like there... its nice to know that the ECU is running a proper tune.

Hmm.... does it perform to my liking... well... definitely yes. At Stage 2 its more than double the WHP of my RS motor (250ish whp by Airboy's road dyno). I really enjoy the 8000 rpm redline of this motor however, it could obviously use some more torque down low. Next summer ill be looking into a mid-size turbo. Im thinking TD06-18G (7cm) with water/meth injection. We'll see though... its gotta make it through the winter here first (-37*C yesterday!)
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Old 11-25-2010, 06:52 AM   #8
olivertwisto
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Cool. I'm considering the same thing when I come back to Canada. Might as well stock up on JDM bits while they are "domestic".
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Old 11-25-2010, 10:09 PM   #9
stiv_5
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Awesome job. I just finished my wrx swap this June after my motor went out last October '09. I was lucky enough to buy a whole salvage Wrx locally. Like you stated I did alot of research and I also had a couple of people help me here and there. I also sent my harness to get merged by Brian (Iwire). He is a great guy. It took me about months to finish due to the cold here in Minnesota and I had to strip the donor car. It is an awesome feeling for the first time and your car has been down for awhile. So far my car running great. Great advice.
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Old 11-26-2010, 01:28 AM   #10
hotrodrex
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Default Wall o text with C/N at the end...

Figured I would add my (wall of text) swap story. I bought a 86 subaru GL from a buddy of mine in 2003. Three days after I bought it the oil pump crapped out and locked the engine up tight. Being a 1986 model it was feedback carbureted 1.8L EA82. Well after a little research I found a JDM EA82T which is the 1.8L turbo that subaru used before the EJ series of engines. $600 for engine, $150 to have it shipped here to the middle o nowhere Minnesota. I figured I'd have it up and running again in a month or so. HA! Was I wrong.

The engine came with the harness hacked off. Then realized that they cut a chunk out of the header with a torch. Then there is the jdm intake manifold that had no maf and has the throttle body orientated the wrong way for the domestic version.

With the cards stacked against me I decided I would try it anyway. So I mounted the clutch up. Had a heck of a time getting the engine to line back up with the trans. About this time winter set in. During this time I did a bunch of research on engine management. I was considering going with a stand alone setup. At some point during that winter I was helping a friend work on one of his cars and we went to a junkyard. I couldn't believe my luck, sitting there in amongst the snowbanks and weeds was a subaru GL-10 turbowagon. I drug the whole car home for $150. It had everything I needed for the swap. ECM, wiring harness, intake manifold and exhaust. The only thing missing was the coil.

Over the rest of the winter I pulled the dash out of both cars and switched wiring harnesses. Next came the intake manifold and fuel pump. Then came the exhaust. Dammit! Why won't this header fit in here? Turns out the reason I was having so much trouble getting the engine to line up with the trans was because of the header. The turbo version of these cars have a different crossmember in the front that has a little dip in it so the up pipe can clear. Well... ****. So the header/uppipe had to get modified to fit. After fiddling around with it for a week I was finally satisfied.

Then came the moment of truth. I pulled the fuel pump fuse and spark plugs out and cranked it over to get oil pressure and check for leaks. All good. Sweet. Plugs back in fuel pump fuse back in. Crank. Crank. Crank. WTF?. Got compression? yep. Got gas? yup. Spark? nope. Turns out there is a ignition module that mounts on the coil and not in the distributor on the EA82T. Come to find out this module is rare. Like not listed in anything but the subaru service manuals rare. No parts house could come up with one. Had to go directly through subaru. $300

3 weeks later the ignition module arrived. Shipped from Japan. Plugged it all in. Hit the key and it came to life. Like 4000 rpm life! Whoa! Shut her down. Tweaked the throttle cable mount a little with a BFH. Try again- 700 rpm...sweet. Check for leaks. Add coolant. All is good. Time for a test drive. Wow this thing is a whole new animal without that dog of a carbureted engine in it. I drove it around for about a week. All was going good. Decided to take a trip with it. Bad idea. Got 2 hours from home and it grenaded the turbo and sent chunks into the heads. Looked like a crop duster going down hwy 10 headed for the twin cities. Huge plume of white smoke and that was the end of it. At that point I cut my losses, lost interest and quit messing with it.

C/N: Engine Swaps take a lot of time and money. I could have bought another car with what I spent. However, the education I got while working on the project and the lessons I learned were golden.
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Old 11-27-2010, 12:25 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotrodrex View Post
C/N: Engine Swaps take a lot of time and money. I could have bought another car with what I spent. However, the education I got while working on the project and the lessons I learned were golden.
couldn't agree more
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Old 11-30-2010, 09:49 AM   #12
jms12557
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Default help with 2.5sohc replacing 2.5dohc

Not sure this is right reply but need 3 posts to start thread.I am swapping out a 2.5 dohc to a 2.5 sohc,Both 2000 model motors,Is it feasable and anyone done this and know what I need to do?Thanks,Mark
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Old 12-02-2010, 06:23 PM   #13
Tarek18
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Great info! Thx
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Old 02-18-2011, 01:15 AM   #14
LegacSTI
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Well said man! im in the same situation you were in, just came into some cash, have lots of time, a '98 Legacy 2.5 GT and a '04 STi motor with 22k on it. ive been wrenching for years now, but the fact is; im an idiot. I overcomplicate things, get frustrated easily by inanimate objects, and always take longer than i think i will- even with my fudge factor put into the equation. However, i am driven and do more research on automotive stuff than i did getting my engineering degree. not mechanical engineering, in case you may have thought so-. anyway, i just wanted to say thanks for your write up. i think that sometimes hearing the non technical story of someone who has done something you are considering doing yourself can be the most important bit of research out there. im still going to go through with my swap, starting in a week or so, and am very grateful to you and those like you who supply the rest of us subatroopers with invaluable information!
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Old 02-18-2011, 06:15 AM   #15
spintheground
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Bump from the past..!^

But this was a good read. Any updates?
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Old 06-20-2011, 03:32 PM   #16
Zaider
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Even more bump from the past.

Updates. Lets see. The car is running alright aside from the following issues:
1) I blew out a gasket while lapping at the track. Apparently OEM gaskets aren't meant for extended periods of high temps and high pressures. I ordered some Grimmspeed double-thick gaskets but due to the Postal Strike here in Canada, they're not here yet. The leak results in sluggish turbo response and not hitting peak boost. Its also noisy as hell. I thought it was a blown turbo, but after talking to Airboy, he thinks its just a blown gasket. Fingers crossed.
2) Still haven't replaced the ABS pump. The JDM one was the wrong choice. Next time Im doing brakes, illl be putting my old one back on. The only thing i like about ABS is it prevents your wheels from locking up on ice when you panic stop and stall. Nothing like sliding towards traffic and having your car stall.
3) I have some cleanup to do in the engine bay. Its a mess. I installed a Grimmspeed AOS and that just made the clutter worse. Thinking about relocating the battery to the trunk and doing a bit of a tuck.
4) Finally replaced the Air Conditioning Pipe that got a hole in it from the TMIC. The car is at a shop getting the AC Recharged today. Hopefully that all works out well.

Other than that, things are looking pretty good. I have about 18,000 km on the swap now and the motor runs really strong. Its gone through a couple lapping sessions and several trips down the drag strip. Its probably time to start looking at a bigger turbo and FMIC and maybe water/meth. Still trying to figure out what I want from all that though.

Oh, and I tried the STI trunk and didn't like it. Its not the look im going for. For now, im back to my OEM trunk w/ spoiler but I ordered a V1 FRP Trunk from Velocity Carbon. That and coilovers next summer should give me the subtle aggressive look I am going for.
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