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Old 11-19-2010, 06:51 PM   #1
antigfk
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Default Is this tire safe to drive on the road?



All my tires are worn on the inside due to aggresive negative camber. I had this tire patched (tread punctured by nail) and the tire shop guy told me I shouldn't even drive on this tire. Is he full of bull? He said that because he could see two different colors of rubber on the worn area that the tire was unsafe.

Question 1: Is is safe to drive on the street?
Question 2: Is it OK to autocross this weekend?

I plan to buy new tires next week, so this will be the last autocross event that these tires would potentially see. FYI, they are Dunlop Z1 Star Specs size 225/45/17 on stock 06 WRX wheels. They middle of the tread passes the "penny" test.
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Old 11-19-2010, 06:52 PM   #2
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1. Yes. for a little bit. how long? no clue.
2. No. i dont think it'll pass tech. or at least it shouldnt. When you see the color change in the rubber you are >< close to cords.
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Old 11-19-2010, 06:58 PM   #3
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Yeah I would feel safe driving in the sun on a hot day to the tire shop haha, sorry man but that tire is pretty much there. And going off what Tom said I doubt you will pass tech, however they would be a fun set to terrorize right before you put the new ones on!

Will
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Old 11-19-2010, 07:09 PM   #4
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I'm surprised that a tire shop actually patched your tire with tread that low! The tire guys up here wouldn't have even touched it. Those are pretty much done. You should change them pretty soon.
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Old 11-19-2010, 08:25 PM   #5
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On my Mazda Protege5 I had some Dunlop Direzzas that were camber worn like that... I drove them down to the cords, since I was broke (as a joke) and it was right before winter. Luckily I had a winter set, so I wasn't in horrible shape if I had to switch out tires. I never felt safe on them, I put the two most worn ones on the back since it was FWD, but there's no way I'd ever risk that again.
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Old 11-19-2010, 08:54 PM   #6
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It's my understanding that negative camber doesn't wear the tire, it's the toe that will cause it to wear. I'd run them at one last autoX and then retire them (pun intended)...
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Old 11-19-2010, 09:35 PM   #7
antigfk
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Well I am going to listen to Kartboy, Grimmspeed, and Perrin and go ahead and not use them to autox this weekend. I'll probably go deer hunting instead. I will order a new set this week from the tirerack. I wish I would have had the nail in the tire checked out a week prior because that would have given me time to get new tires for this weekend. Oh well...

Just a side note:
I am running -1 degree camber up front, and like -0.3 degree camber rear, 0 degree toe front and rear, with stock struts, springs, & tophats. I think I will get a new alignment and slightly reduce my front negative camber.
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Old 11-19-2010, 09:37 PM   #8
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If you have to ask, the answer is no. Better safe than sorry.
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Old 11-19-2010, 09:43 PM   #9
sc00by4life
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antigfk View Post
Well I am going to listen to Kartboy, Grimmspeed, and Perrin and go ahead and not use them to autox this weekend. I'll probably go deer hunting instead. I will order a new set this week from the tirerack. I wish I would have had the nail in the tire checked out a week prior because that would have given me time to get new tires for this weekend. Oh well...

Just a side note:
I am running -1 degree camber up front, and like -0.3 degree camber rear, 0 degree toe front and rear, with stock struts, springs, & tophats. I think I will get a new alignment and slightly reduce my front negative camber.
Negative camber is not the culprit of uneven tire wear. You need to increase tire pressure, and/or have your toe settings corrected.
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Old 11-19-2010, 09:44 PM   #10
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nevermind
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Old 11-19-2010, 10:11 PM   #11
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Once the cord is showing, you should start working on replacements. I ran my Kumho MX's (used as a track/street tire for a while) for about 1000 miles in about the shape yours are in before one was totally corded. But yah....check the toe of those tires. If you're running autocrosses with them, there's no way the inside should be wearing first.
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Old 11-20-2010, 12:10 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack ffr1846 View Post
Once the cord is showing, you should start working on replacements. I ran my Kumho MX's (used as a track/street tire for a while) for about 1000 miles in about the shape yours are in before one was totally corded. But yah....check the toe of those tires. If you're running autocrosses with them, there's no way the inside should be wearing first.
He's just not running enough autocrosses.

Those tires are just about shot. I would run them down to the cords if they were only being used for autocross. That's typically how I have run my r-comps on my autocross car.
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Old 11-20-2010, 08:06 PM   #13
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i work at a tire store in chicagoland area and im pretty familiar with the z1 star spec. you still have a little bit of time on the tread but not too much. those belts are damn near bout to break through, and we have seen a lot of z1 star specs shred up like crappy retreads once the belt breaks the tread plane...fair warning
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Old 11-20-2010, 09:20 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antigfk View Post

Just a side note:
I am running -1 degree camber up front, and like -0.3 degree camber rear, 0 degree toe front and rear, with stock struts, springs, & tophats. I think I will get a new alignment and slightly reduce my front negative camber.

Those camber numbers are not the culprit. You have some toe-out which is causing inner shoulder wear. Lots of camber (which -1 is not) will merely exacerbate wear caused by toe-out. If the alignment tech says the toe is 0 he's either lying, the machine is badly calibrated, or your tie rods/ball joints are bad.

I would have no problem autocrossing those tires. Run'em till they cord - the worst that can happen at an autocross is a bad time.
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Old 11-20-2010, 09:39 PM   #15
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my camber is -2.5F & -2.1R and my toe was set to 0 but I still got the same issue as the OP
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Old 11-20-2010, 09:55 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sniper1rfa View Post
I would have no problem autocrossing those tires. Run'em till they cord - the worst that can happen at an autocross is a bad time.
I would disagree...worst that can happen is the tire goes pop...he losses control and hurts himself, someone else or his car.

I wouldnt ever risk that.
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Old 11-21-2010, 12:39 AM   #17
speedyHAM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinjirra View Post
I would disagree...worst that can happen is the tire goes pop...he losses control and hurts himself, someone else or his car.

I wouldnt ever risk that.
I've seen wheels come off due to the axle breaking at an autocross. Besides sliding off course nothing bad happened. Autocross is a very low risk sport.

If you've never been to an autocross please don't comment.
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Old 11-21-2010, 07:03 AM   #18
sniper1rfa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikiter View Post
my camber is -2.5F & -2.1R and my toe was set to 0 but I still got the same issue as the OP
Your toe wasn't zero. You had some toe-out. I promise. If the wear was a result only of camber the uneven wear would extend more than halfway across the tread and would be much less drastic. Remember, more camber makes toe-out wear worse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinjirra View Post
I would disagree...worst that can happen is the tire goes pop...he losses control and hurts himself, someone else or his car.
At an autocross on 225 starspecs? Both feet in, no problem. Plus the inner tread blocks, especially with that little camber, won't see any appreciable wear during an autocross.
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Old 11-21-2010, 02:11 PM   #19
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Depends on you definition of drive. Ive "driven" with tires with steel belts showing. Just be careful and know that your tires will slide when cornering, they will suck in the rain. And buy new ones when you have the money asap
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Old 11-27-2010, 10:04 AM   #20
antigfk
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Update:

Got new 225/45/17 Starspecs put on my wheels and got aligned on a state-of-the-art Hunter machine yesterday. The last alignment I got was on a 60 year old manual-type machine, but the guy was highly recommended.

Before alignment:
FL: 3/16" toe out
FR: 5/16" toe out
RL: 1/16" toe out
RR: 3/16" toe out

After alignment:
0 toe all around.
Front camber: -1.2 degrees
Rear camber: -0.7 degrees
Caster front left: 3.2 degrees
Caster front right: 3.6 degrees

I asked the alignment guy if it is possible that the alignment could have slipped since my last one about a year ago. He said it is possible, but likely not by that much. He said it is more likely in his opinion that the last guy did a bad job, because he has had to fix alignments done by the guy with the 60 year old machine.
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Old 11-27-2010, 10:15 AM   #21
Jack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antigfk View Post
Update:

Before alignment:
FL: 3/16" toe out
FR: 5/16" toe out
RL: 1/16" toe out
RR: 3/16" toe out

.
Holy worse-than-an-eyeball-alignment!-Batman.....

1/2 an inch of toe out in the front??? That thing must have turned in at autocross like you only had to think "turn" and it would. Incompetent alignment places is the reason I bought the equipment and do my own (fastrax caster/camber gauge, ftw)

Glad you found the actual cause. I hate it when I don't know why something is screwed up.
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Old 11-27-2010, 10:19 AM   #22
antigfk
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Yeah, it had really good turn in.

It also liked to dart all over the road for any road imperfection.

It drives 100% better now on-road... perfectly smooth.
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Old 11-27-2010, 01:26 PM   #23
sniper1rfa
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Don't blame the guy's old machine, blame the guy. I once had an alignment done and my tires looked like that within 2 weeks (I obviously wasn't paying attention). The tech was using a nearly-new hunter rack. Turned out I had wound up with stupid amounts of toe-out like you did.

Last edited by sniper1rfa; 11-27-2010 at 01:32 PM.
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Old 11-27-2010, 03:06 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedyHAM View Post
I've seen wheels come off due to the axle breaking at an autocross. Besides sliding off course nothing bad happened. Autocross is a very low risk sport.

If you've never been to an autocross please don't comment.
Yes, autox is low risk but not zero risk. I've seen many incidents and only a tiny fraction resulted in damage, but that doesn't mean we should become complacent.
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