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Old 12-30-2010, 10:58 PM   #76
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What follows is sheer speculation, so take it with a great big grain of salt.

I take it that you are planning to put power to your rear wheels via (what used to be) the front differential? I wonder if the stock front diffs will last, considering that the 6MT's torque split was intended to send them only 2/3 as much torque as the rear diff... they might be kinda under-built.

I wonder if it would be easier to find a (blown/cheap?) DCCD diff and rebuild it to be permanently locked up.
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Old 12-30-2010, 11:29 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by NSFW View Post
What follows is sheer speculation, so take it with a great big grain of salt.

I take it that you are planning to put power to your rear wheels via (what used to be) the front differential? I wonder if the stock front diffs will last, considering that the 6MT's torque split was intended to send them only 2/3 as much torque as the rear diff... they might be kinda under-built.

I wonder if it would be easier to find a (blown/cheap?) DCCD diff and rebuild it to be permanently locked up.
The only difference (which would apply with a 5 spd or 6 spd) is that my car only weighs 1500 lbs so the load on the transmission gears (and diff) is already cut in half by not have to push around another 1700 lbs or so of vehicle weight.

Good thinking on the center diff idea as this is exactly what Andrewtech plans to do. Not only have it permanently locked, but also gut it where possible to remove any unecessary weight.
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Old 12-31-2010, 01:49 AM   #78
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If you were satisfied with 12-second quarter miles and 4-second 0-60 sprints, yes. But you're going to accelerate that 1700 lbs way quicker than I do my 3350 lbs, so I don't think you get any less stress on the drivetrain. Mostly it's going to be the same forces, except that 100% of your engine's torque is going through half as many diffs and axles.

I don't mean to sound like chicken little... honestly I have no idea what Subaru's front diffs can tolerate. I haven't heard of anybody breaking one, but I also haven't been looking around. Andrewtech might know though - run it by them and see what they have to say.
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Old 12-31-2010, 08:59 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by NSFW View Post
If you were satisfied with 12-second quarter miles and 4-second 0-60 sprints, yes. But you're going to accelerate that 1700 lbs way quicker than I do my 3350 lbs, so I don't think you get any less stress on the drivetrain. Mostly it's going to be the same forces, except that 100% of your engine's torque is going through half as many diffs and axles.

I don't mean to sound like chicken little... honestly I have no idea what Subaru's front diffs can tolerate. I haven't heard of anybody breaking one, but I also haven't been looking around. Andrewtech might know though - run it by them and see what they have to say.
How'd you know I intend to bust through that 4 second 0-60 time?

My hopes are to start in second gear and see how close/fast to 60 I can get (without shifting and without exploding).
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Old 12-31-2010, 09:20 AM   #80
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You funny man pook boy. You can't subscribe when you're the director
Nope, I'm the Fabricator, YOUR the Suby engine/trans guy

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Old 12-31-2010, 09:38 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by NSFW View Post
If you were satisfied with 12-second quarter miles and 4-second 0-60 sprints, yes. But you're going to accelerate that 1700 lbs way quicker than I do my 3350 lbs, so I don't think you get any less stress on the drivetrain. Mostly it's going to be the same forces, except that 100% of your engine's torque is going through half as many diffs and axles.

I don't mean to sound like chicken little... honestly I have no idea what Subaru's front diffs can tolerate. I haven't heard of anybody breaking one, but I also haven't been looking around. Andrewtech might know though - run it by them and see what they have to say.
Just got an email from Sam at Andrewtech and his comment was that the 6 speed can handle much more that it will see from my application, so I feel reassured in my original estimations.
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Old 01-09-2011, 08:19 AM   #82
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My 2007 six speed has arrived at the fabrication shop in KY, awaiting it's turn on the build table where new frame jigs will be designed to accept this as an option for the frame.

Looks like the length difference between the 5spd, 6spd and Porsche 915 is just a few inches; no big deal.




Last edited by hipowernut; 01-09-2011 at 11:45 AM. Reason: added pictures of 6spd vs Porsche 915
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Old 01-09-2011, 11:43 AM   #83
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.....wow
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Old 01-09-2011, 01:21 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hipowernut View Post
Just got an email from Sam at Andrewtech and his comment was that the 6 speed can handle much more that it will see from my application, so I feel reassured in my original estimations.
oh that sam...he's got such soft hands!
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Old 01-09-2011, 02:45 PM   #85
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Here are some shots of the prototype frame just back from powdercoating. The aluminum mid floorpan is being installed. This is the first car being built and it will have the Porsche T4 engine and 5spd 915 transmission. Bill's car will have this lime green frame and the body panels I believe will be two different shades of green. Sorta like a flyin pickle!

My build will probably have the frame powdercoated black with metallic green body panels, along with some carbon fiber (looking) inserts.





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Old 01-09-2011, 10:04 PM   #86
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I had a couple of interesting back and forth emails with Ryan Moore today and we'll be talking by phone this coming week.

Hmmm . . . wonder what might be brewing for my 2.5 engine?
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Old 01-11-2011, 04:54 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by hipowernut View Post
I had a couple of interesting back and forth emails with Ryan Moore today and we'll be talking by phone this coming week.

Hmmm . . . wonder what might be brewing for my 2.5 engine?
Could it be that a special version of this may be in the works?

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Old 01-11-2011, 05:23 PM   #88
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Glad the trans got there okay, Marty. Can't way to see this beast all buttoned up.

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Old 01-11-2011, 05:38 PM   #89
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Glad the trans got there okay, Marty. Can't way to see this beast all buttoned up.

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Thanks Dale, can't wait to see what you guys dream up. Here's some more shots released today on the prototype progress.





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Old 01-23-2011, 11:18 AM   #90
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Here is the latest progress on the prototype, which means my turn on the build table is coming sooner too.









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Old 01-23-2011, 01:38 PM   #91
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Nice!
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Old 01-23-2011, 03:20 PM   #92
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looks like a 901 with 901 CV's, not a 915... both are terrible though. And why a type IV? It's like they took two of the worse things from a 914 and put them into a bitchin' chassis I really like the chassis and suspension design, but if it were me, I would be using a more modern drivetrain in my "prototype" car.

Last edited by kcpaz; 01-23-2011 at 04:10 PM.
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Old 01-23-2011, 05:26 PM   #93
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The Porsche 914 (eng/trans) is what the two owners of the TR-42 concept envisioned to be the desired drivetrain for the car. The basis was to create a simple, lightweight car that required no computer or complicated wiring and would end up being around 150hp or so, which is still a great power to weight ratio at 1200-1300lbs. It made sense to them since the fabricator (Pook) has spent over 25 years working on Porsche race cars.

No one else that I know of has expressed interest in the Porsche drivetrain. Currently, the only provisions they have for drivetrain mounts are for Porsche and Subaru.

The first three customers all will have a Subaru drivetrain. I believe the first Subaru build with its 2.0 JDM STi drivetrain and the second Subaru build (mine) with its 06 WRX engine and 07 STI 6 speed (plus turbo selection and other mods) will actually serve as the prototypes to demonstrate possibilities to the mainstream customer base.
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Old 01-23-2011, 05:40 PM   #94
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No one else that I know of has expressed interest in the Porsche drivetrain.
Which should be a pretty good indicator that maybe they should rethink the drivetrain choice on the test car...

I don't know, maybe it's just me, but if I were building a somewhat "production" kit car like this, I would want the prototype/test car to have a decently potent power-train so the chassis could be tested under relatively high stress conditions, especially if my customers will be. I just don't like the idea of using customers as guinea pigs.

Anyway, I don't want to sound like I'm beating up on the build or the concept in general, it just seems like an odd transmission/engine considering the modern design and quality of everything else on the car. It's like if someone put an old Gen II Chevy small block into a C5 or C6 Corvette just because that was the engine they had the most experience with.

I DO like the car though, and obviously it will be fun no matter what engine is used.
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Old 01-23-2011, 06:45 PM   #95
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I hear what you're saying. But the owner (B-T) wanted his car to have the simple T4 engine.

The prototype really didn't begin as a prototype but rather a one-off build that Pook was doing for a customer (B-T). The two of them then got together and decided to form MMW and build these cars as a kit offering. Soon there after they realized the main interest would be Subaru, but he (B-T) still wanted (and will enjoy) his T4 car. The build jigs and chassis for the Subaru drivetrain will be a bit bigger, stronger and different as far as the engineering of the car is concerned.

I'm not one bit worried about Pook's engineering skills. The car has been master planned for my Subaru output and stresses. He engineered the suspension geometry, the four corner balance, the roll center, the aerodynamics of the under body pans and so, so much more.

Pook has built other exo-cars and exo-reverse trikes and exo-bike (Busa) engined cars, so this is not his first and therefore it would not be fair to say that MMW is using their customers as guinea pigs. He has also built many, many other race cars that had way more Porsche twin turbo power, so as I said I'm not worried.

It's easy to see how some would have reservations about the T4/TR-42 build decisions without knowing the background surrounding it's development and the progression of the TR-42 engineering designs.
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Old 01-23-2011, 07:13 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by hipowernut View Post
I hear what you're saying. But the owner (B-T) wanted his car to have the simple T4 engine.

The prototype really didn't begin as a prototype but rather a one-off build that Pook was doing for a customer (B-T). The two of them then got together and decided to form MMW and build these cars as a kit offering. Soon there after they realized the main interest would be Subaru, but he (B-T) still wanted (and will enjoy) his T4 car. The build jigs and chassis for the Subaru drivetrain will be a bit bigger, stronger and different as far as the engineering of the car is concerned.

I'm not one bit worried about Pook's engineering skills. The car has been master planned for my Subaru output and stresses. He engineered the suspension geometry, the four corner balance, the roll center, the aerodynamics of the under body pans and so, so much more.

Pook has built other exo-cars and exo-reverse trikes and exo-bike (Busa) engined cars, so this is not his first and therefore it would not be fair to say that MMW is using their customers as guinea pigs. He has also built many, many other race cars that had way more Porsche twin turbo power, so as I said I'm not worried.

It's easy to see how some would have reservations about the T4/TR-42 build decisions without knowing the background surrounding it's development and the progression of the TR-42 engineering designs.

Now that makes sense. A little history lesson was all I needed. I figured there might be a reason why the chassis was seemingly mismatched to the engine/transaxle. Good luck with your build...
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Old 01-24-2011, 12:18 AM   #97
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Type 4 setup is Simple and Lightweight, I would like to drive both side by side and see which one stood out
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Old 01-24-2011, 08:16 AM   #98
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B-T feels his lighter weight T4 car will out handle the Subaru cars on twisty mountain backroads. I myself do not feel that a 200-300 pound difference will give him any advantage (1200lbs/150hp), especially since my power to weight ratio will be greater in my Subaru car (1500lbs/350+hp). It will really come down to driver skills and there (unfortunately), he will probably get me.
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Old 01-24-2011, 02:20 PM   #99
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Its going to be interesting to get the cars out this summer and see what they do. I'm sure either way there is going to be some growing pains. I plan on hitting up a couple of road tracks and the 1/4 mile strip to see what it can do.
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Old 01-24-2011, 02:37 PM   #100
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B-T feels his lighter weight T4 car will out handle the Subaru cars on twisty mountain backroads. I myself do not feel that a 200-300 pound difference will give him any advantage (1200lbs/150hp), especially since my power to weight ratio will be greater in my Subaru car (1500lbs/350+hp). It will really come down to driver skills and there (unfortunately), he will probably get me.
Even if the T4 is lighter, you have to factor in the painfully slow and vague shifting of the 901 gearbox.
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