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Old 11-26-2010, 07:59 PM   #1
azn2nr
Scooby Specialist
Member Sales Rating: (23)
 
Member#: 35276
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Vehicle:
2006 2.5i clone
438/420 whp

Default HKS 409 stainless equal length header 08+ review and fit guide 4 06-07 wrx w/results

Best fitting header ever. No flex pipes no slip joints. Just fits.


this header will fit any triangular pan'd wrx/sti from 05-11.

on wrx 06 and 07 WRX ONLY you will need to remove the oil cooler and cocking bracket pictured together here



the cocking bracket is pictured by itself here



and make it look like this here



to do this you will need to blockoff or bypass the coolant line that runs into the oil cooler as well as aquire an N/A oil filter bolt. blocking off requires you to tap the water pump or ghetto rig a plug. the bypass just requires cutting the hard line bracket off which ends up looking like this here (displayed with N/A oil filter bolt)



finished product



the header mellow's the sound of the car out a ton. i have a cobb turboback exhaust so its already quiet. the tone is a little bit higher but smoother than a standard subaru sound. if you run an ewg the sound it makes is down right nasty. it sounds like a porsche or evo. ive noticed some improvment in boost response and i will be taking logs to see exactly how much imporvment there is

edit: results are in. second gear results taken by a ap. 3rd gear results before are taken from my dyno chart. 3rd gear after taken from ap. i actually picked up a pound in second.

2nd gear results before

20.16 psi @ 5105 rpm
Code:
Seconds (sec)	RPM (RPM)	Calculated Load (load)	Ignition Adv. (deg)	Dynamic Adv. (deg)	Boost (PSI)	Wastegate Duty (%)	Air/Fuel Ratio (AFR)	Inj. Duty Cycle (%)	MAF Voltage (V)	Fuel Trim (Short) (%)
98.54	2594	1.16	21.5	3	1.6	53.31	13.91	9.38	2.6	1.56
98.79	2672	1.16	21.5	3	1.74	62.72	14.26	9.7	2.64	0.78
99	2741	1.19	21.5	3	1.89	68.21	14.15	9.96	2.8	-1.56
99.25	2829	1.23	20.5	3	2.03	64.68	14.61	10.92	2.72	0
99.47	2929	1.29	19.5	3	2.32	61.94	14.49	11.87	2.82	2.34
99.7	3021	1.3	20	3	2.76	57.62	13.8	11.73	2.82	-2.34
99.95	3130	1.3	20.5	3	3.19	54.1	14.03	11.49	2.92	-6.25
100.17	3236	1.31	21	3	3.48	51.35	14.84	12.47	2.92	-3.91
100.42	3347	1.32	21	3	3.77	51.35	14.61	12.87	3.04	-1.56
100.64	3451	1.36	21	3	4.21	51.35	14.84	14.12	3.1	0
100.87	3580	1.42	20	3	4.64	51.35	14.61	15.22	3.12	0.78
101.12	3717	1.49	19.5	3	5.37	51.35	14.03	16.51	3.26	0.78
101.34	3827	1.55	19	3	5.95	51.35	14.03	17.87	3.36	1.56
101.57	3976	1.63	18	3	6.96	51.35	13.45	20.27	3.46	1.56
101.82	4097	1.78	16.5	3	8.12	51.35	12.65	26.48	3.58	0
102.04	4276	2.02	15	3	9.72	51.35	11.04	32.19	3.74	0
102.27	4470	2.32	14	3	11.89	51.35	11.04	38.93	3.92	0
102.52	4636	2.64	12.5	3	15.08	49.39	11.04	45.75	4.12	0
102.76	4866	3.03	10	3	18.27	37.24	11.04	53.23	4.3	0
102.99	5105	3.12	10.5	3	20.16	14.11	11.04	57.79	4.42	0
103.21	5323	3.11	11.5	3	20.3	0	11.04	58.18	4.46	0
103.44	5549	3.13	12	3	20.01	0	11.04	60.72	4.5	0
103.69	5781	3.13	12.5	3	19.87	0	11.04	63.65	4.52	0
103.9	6041	3.06	13	3	19.43	0	11.04	62.91	4.56	0
104.13	6200	3.02	13.5	3	19.29	0	11.04	65.61	4.58	0
104.38	6478	2.99	14.5	3	19.72	0	11.04	67.26	4.62	0
104.6	6695	2.92	15.5	3	19.58	0	11.04	68.17	4.66	0
104.85	6871	2.83	16.5	3	19.72	0	11.04	67.05	4.62	0
20.74 psi @ 5125 rpm
Code:
Seconds (sec)	RPM (RPM)	Calculated Load (load)	Ignition Adv. (deg)	Dynamic Adv. (deg)	Boost (PSI)	Wastegate Duty (%)	Air/Fuel Ratio (AFR)	Inj. Duty Cycle (%)	MAF Voltage (V)	Fuel Trim (Short) (%)
136.73	2176	1.08	21.5	3	0	9.41	14.61	7.44	2.42	0
136.95	2272	1.13	21	3	0.87	38.81	14.84	7.88	2.54	0
137.2	2363	1.13	21.5	3	1.16	46.26	14.95	8.67	2.54	1.56
137.42	2531	1.13	22	3	1.31	64.29	14.95	9.27	2.6	3.12
137.65	2638	1.15	22	3	1.6	73.3	13.69	9.62	2.7	0.78
137.87	2686	1.17	22	3	1.74	70.17	14.26	9.95	2.66	-1.56
138.1	2816	1.22	21	3	1.89	66.64	14.72	10.17	2.68	0
138.31	2892	1.28	20	3	2.18	62.72	14.26	11.2	2.78	0
138.56	3036	1.31	19.5	3	2.61	58.41	14.15	11.65	2.9	-3.12
138.78	3112	1.31	20.5	3	3.05	54.1	14.15	11.33	2.88	-7.03
139.01	3206	1.33	20.5	3	3.48	51.35	14.38	12.48	2.94	-5.47
139.26	3341	1.36	20.5	3	3.92	51.35	14.61	12.82	3	-4.69
139.48	3473	1.38	20.5	3	4.35	51.35	14.72	14.14	3.08	-3.12
139.73	3578	1.45	20	3	4.93	51.35	14.72	15.33	3.2	-1.56
139.95	3726	1.54	19	3	5.8	51.35	14.15	16.6	3.32	-0.78
140.2	3832	1.61	18.5	3	6.67	51.35	13.69	18.92	3.38	-0.78
140.42	3945	1.72	17	3	7.69	51.35	13.34	20.46	3.46	-1.56
140.65	4125	1.89	15.5	3	8.99	51.35	11.96	28.96	3.62	0
140.87	4247	2.19	14	3	10.88	51.35	11.04	34.74	3.84	0
141.1	4496	2.59	12.5	3	13.49	51.35	11.04	43.31	4.02	0
141.31	4660	2.92	10	3	17.4	41.94	11.04	50.3	4.26	0
141.56	4891	3.18	10	3	19.87	27.05	11.04	56.39	4.36	0
141.78	5125	3.18	11	3	20.74	2.74	11.04	57.34	4.4	0
142.01	5334	3.13	11.5	3	20.45	0	11.04	58.39	4.44	0
142.26	5583	3.17	12	3	20.01	0	11.04	60.98	4.52	0
142.48	5851	3.15	12.5	3	20.01	0	11.04	61.85	4.54	0
142.73	6065	3.07	13	3	19.72	0	11.04	64.55	4.56	0
142.95	6283	3.03	13.5	3	19.72	0	11.04	67.31	4.62	0
143.2	6478	2.97	14.5	3	19.72	0	11.04	68.51	4.64	0
143.42	6688	2.89	15.5	3	19.87	0	11.04	68.59	4.64	0
20.88 psi @ 5022 rpm
Code:
Seconds (sec)	RPM (RPM)	Calculated Load (load)	Ignition Adv. (deg)	Dynamic Adv. (deg)	Boost (PSI)	Wastegate Duty (%)	Air/Fuel Ratio (AFR)	Inj. Duty Cycle (%)	MAF Voltage (V)	Fuel Trim (Short) (%)
208.54	1879	1.08	20.5	3	-0.29	3.53	13.91	6.08	2.34	-3.91
208.79	1953	1.16	19.5	3	0.58	25.09	13.57	6.63	2.3	-7.81
209.01	2036	1.18	20.5	3	0.73	41.94	14.15	6.86	2.36	-7.81
209.24	2121	1.19	21	3	0.87	48.22	14.38	7.21	2.4	-7.03
209.47	2196	1.18	21.5	3	1.02	55.66	14.95	7.56	2.52	-3.91
209.69	2278	1.18	22	3	1.31	67.42	14.84	7.79	2.52	-1.56
209.92	2382	1.18	23	3	1.31	76.83	15.07	8.67	2.6	2.34
210.17	2478	1.19	23	3	1.6	74.48	14.61	9	2.6	4.69
210.41	2597	1.21	23	3	1.74	70.56	14.03	9.43	2.66	2.34
210.63	2704	1.23	22.5	3	2.03	66.64	14.15	9.81	2.8	-0.78
210.88	2777	1.28	22	3	2.18	64.68	14.61	10.67	2.9	-1.56
211.1	2895	1.35	21.5	3	2.47	60.76	14.38	11.81	2.84	0
211.35	3002	1.39	21	3	3.05	57.23	14.03	12.17	2.92	-3.12
211.58	3106	1.38	22	3	3.48	53.31	13.8	11.98	2.98	-7.81
211.8	3230	1.38	22.5	3	3.92	49.78	14.84	12.58	3.02	-5.47
212.02	3345	1.42	22	3	4.35	50.18	14.49	13.58	3.04	-4.69
212.25	3451	1.46	21.5	3	4.93	50.18	14.84	14.71	3.1	-3.12
212.47	3563	1.55	20.5	3	5.51	50.18	14.72	15.95	3.2	-2.34
212.7	3717	1.64	20	3	6.38	50.57	14.03	17.34	3.38	-1.56
212.95	3835	1.72	19.5	3	7.4	50.57	13.57	23.77	3.42	0
213.17	4036	1.86	18	3	8.7	50.57	11.39	27.58	3.58	0
213.4	4203	2.14	16.5	3	10.44	50.57	11.04	33.92	3.84	0
213.65	4314	2.62	14	3	13.05	50.96	11.04	42.71	4.02	0
213.87	4555	3	11.5	3	16.97	41.94	11.04	50.95	4.3	0
214.12	4786	3.3	12	3	19.87	26.66	11.04	57.6	4.4	0
214.34	5022	3.3	13	3	20.88	2.35	11.04	56	4.44	0
214.57	5278	3.28	13.5	3	20.45	0	11.04	59.64	4.52	0
214.8	5562	3.26	14	3	20.16	0	11.04	63.24	4.56	0
215.02	5737	3.25	14.5	3	20.01	0	11.04	65.88	4.6	0
215.25	5989	3.16	15	3	19.72	0	11.04	67.19	4.62	0
215.5	6261	3.1	16	3	19.58	0	11.04	67.88	4.66	0
215.72	6485	3.02	16.5	3	19.72	0	11.04	69.51	4.64	0
215.95	6645	2.91	17	3	18.27	0	11.04	62.41	4.62	0

2nd gear results after

21.03 psi @ 4819 rpm
Code:
Seconds (sec)	RPM (RPM)	Calculated Load (load)	Ignition Adv. (deg)	Dynamic Adv. (deg)	Boost (PSI)	Wastegate Duty (%)	Air/Fuel Ratio (AFR)	Inj. Duty Cycle (%)	MAF Voltage (V)	Fuel Trim (Short) (%)
49.96	2679	1.14	25.5	3	0	8.62	15.53	9.7	2.7	3.91
50.19	2747	1.21	24	3	0.73	17.25	14.38	10.6	2.76	4.69
50.44	2861	1.28	22.5	3	1.31	28.62	13.91	10.92	2.78	0.78
50.66	2977	1.35	22	3	1.89	40.38	14.03	11.45	2.88	-2.34
50.91	3087	1.38	22.5	3	2.47	44.3	14.15	11.94	3	-5.47
51.13	3229	1.42	22	3	2.9	41.55	14.61	12.97	2.98	-3.12
51.38	3357	1.5	21.5	3	3.48	41.55	14.72	14.25	3.14	-2.34
51.62	3468	1.59	20.5	3	4.35	41.55	14.61	16.13	3.26	-1.56
51.85	3599	1.69	20	3	5.37	41.55	14.15	16.89	3.4	-2.34
52.07	3750	1.81	19	3	6.38	41.55	14.38	19.21	3.5	-3.12
52.32	3926	2	17.5	3	7.98	41.55	13.91	23.42	3.66	-3.91
52.54	4155	2.41	15.5	3	10.3	41.55	12.88	35.22	3.94	-6.25
52.79	4343	2.84	13	3	13.49	41.55	11.04	46.26	4.16	0
53.01	4555	3.48	12.5	3	17.84	32.54	11.04	58.93	4.42	0
53.24	4819	3.73	13	3	21.03	18.42	11.04	65.23	4.52	0
53.49	5150	3.7	14	3	21.46	0	11.04	66.64	4.6	0
53.71	5485	3.61	14.5	3	21.17	0	11.04	67.04	4.68	0
53.94	5729	3.42	15.5	3	20.74	0	11.04	67.01	4.72	0
54.19	6050	3.22	16	3	20.59	0	11.04	57.46	4.78	0
21.75 psi @ 4792 rpm
Code:
Seconds (sec)	RPM (RPM)	Calculated Load (load)	Ignition Adv. (deg)	Dynamic Adv. (deg)	Boost (PSI)	Wastegate Duty (%)	Air/Fuel Ratio (AFR)	Inj. Duty Cycle (%)	MAF Voltage (V)	Fuel Trim (Short) (%)
11.14	2394	1.12	25	3	0.15	38.42	16.33	8.75	2.56	3.12
11.37	2472	1.15	25	3	0.29	58.8	13.57	8.99	2.56	-1.56
11.6	2559	1.17	25	3	0.44	56.84	14.49	9.34	2.62	-2.34
11.82	2637	1.2	24	3	0.58	54.1	14.95	9.53	2.66	-0.78
12.07	2685	1.26	23	3	0.73	51.74	14.38	10.34	2.8	0.78
12.31	2756	1.32	22	3	0.87	49.78	14.38	10.65	2.72	-0.78
12.54	2872	1.34	22.5	3	1.31	45.86	14.15	11.13	2.86	-4.69
12.75	2930	1.3	23.5	3	1.6	44.3	14.38	10.65	2.82	-5.47
12.98	3015	1.3	23.5	3	1.89	42.73	14.84	11.71	2.82	-3.12
13.23	3095	1.32	24	3	2.03	41.55	14.61	12.11	2.96	0
13.45	3165	1.35	24	3	2.47	38.02	14.26	12.37	2.94	-1.56
13.68	3288	1.39	23.5	3	2.76	37.24	14.72	13.35	3.08	-3.12
13.9	3353	1.45	22.5	3	3.19	37.24	14.61	14.36	3.04	-1.56
14.11	3446	1.52	22	3	3.77	37.24	14.61	14.85	3.12	-2.34
14.36	3558	1.58	21.5	3	4.5	36.85	14.26	16.13	3.24	-3.12
14.58	3677	1.65	21	3	5.22	36.85	12.42	21.15	3.34	0
14.83	3823	1.79	19.5	3	6.24	36.85	11.04	24.58	3.52	0
15.05	3956	2.07	17.5	3	7.83	36.85	11.04	30.63	3.72	0
15.3	4126	2.5	15.5	3	10.3	36.46	11.04	39.17	3.92	0
15.52	4288	2.97	12	3	13.63	36.46	11.04	47.76	4.22	0
15.77	4492	3.64	13	3	18.56	28.62	11.04	61.85	4.52	0
15.99	4792	3.93	13.5	3	21.75	10.98	11.04	66.96	4.6	0
so thats about 300 rpms in second

3rd gear result before

20 psi @ 4750



3rd gear result after

21.32 psi @ 4238
Code:
10.71	2070	1.21	20	3	0.29	25.09	14.26	7.61	2.42	-0.78
10.96	2152	1.22	21	3	0.44	46.65	13.45	7.33	2.54	-6.25
11.18	2190	1.23	20.5	3	0.73	52.53	14.03	7.44	2.56	-9.38
11.43	2171	1.24	20.5	3	0.87	52.53	15.07	7.42	2.58	-6.25
11.65	2240	1.24	23.5	3	1.02	52.53	14.72	8.15	2.56	1.56
11.88	2311	1.24	25	3	1.16	52.53	13.91	8.85	2.58	6.25
12.13	2351	1.26	27	3	1.31	52.53	13.11	9.57	2.64	8.59
12.35	2382	1.27	27	3	1.45	52.14	12.77	9.73	2.7	9.38
12.58	2441	1.28	27	3	1.6	51.74	12.77	9.94	2.68	10.16
12.83	2473	1.29	27	3	1.74	50.57	12.65	10.01	2.68	10.16
13.03	2546	1.31	26.5	3	1.89	49	12.53	10.81	2.7	10.94
13.28	2570	1.33	26.5	3	2.03	48.22	12.53	11	2.76	10.94
13.5	2647	1.37	26	3	2.18	46.65	12.42	11.91	2.76	10.16
13.75	2715	1.42	25.5	3	2.32	45.08	12.42	12.07	2.84	10.16
13.99	2758	1.46	25	3	2.61	43.51	12.31	13.05	2.96	9.38
14.22	2810	1.51	25	3	2.9	43.12	12.07	13.32	2.88	0
14.44	2871	1.51	25	3	3.19	41.16	11.73	13.6	2.92	0
14.67	2954	1.49	25.5	3	3.48	39.98	11.61	13.9	2.9	0
14.89	3011	1.49	25.5	3	3.77	38.02	11.73	14.14	2.96	0
15.12	3054	1.52	25.5	3	4.06	37.24	11.5	15.64	3	0
15.34	3135	1.55	25.5	3	4.35	35.67	11.15	16.11	3.04	0
15.55	3205	1.57	25.5	3	4.79	33.71	11.04	17.16	3.1	0
15.8	3248	1.63	25	3	5.08	33.71	11.04	18.96	3.2	0
16.02	3356	1.7	24	3	5.66	33.71	11.04	19.97	3.3	0
16.25	3427	1.77	23.5	3	6.38	33.71	11.04	21.8	3.38	0
16.5	3525	1.84	23	3	7.11	33.71	11.04	23.14	3.38	0
16.72	3608	1.93	22.5	3	8.12	33.71	11.04	25.32	3.48	0
16.93	3681	2.05	22	3	9.14	33.71	11.04	27.67	3.6	0
17.18	3771	2.23	21.5	3	10.3	33.71	11.04	30.8	3.72	0
17.39	3863	2.56	14.5	3	12.04	33.71	11.04	37.19	3.96	0
17.64	4008	3	11	3	14.65	32.93	11.04	45.21	4.12	0
17.86	4114	3.49	11.5	3	18.27	25.09	11.04	53.4	4.3	0
18.09	4238	3.89	12	3	21.32	13.33	11.04	60.06	4.44	0
18.34	4417	3.96	12	3	22.77	0	11.04	60.12	4.48	0
18.56	4518	3.94	12.5	3	22.63	0	11.04	62.22	4.5	0
18.79	4694	3.86	13	3	22.19	0	11.04	62.27	4.58	0
19.01	4834	3.86	13.5	3	21.9	0	11.04	63.27	4.56	0
19.24	5027	3.75	14	3	21.32	0	11.04	65.29	4.62	0
19.49	5149	3.78	14.5	3	21.17	0	11.04	65.02	4.64	0
19.71	5326	3.68	14.5	3	21.32	0	11.04	66.58	4.7	0
19.94	5485	3.58	15	3	21.32	0	11.04	66.82	4.72	0
21.31 psi @ 4365
Code:
52.35	2175	1.2	21	3	99.96	0.29	61.94	13.57	7.43	2.48	-7.03
52.57	2223	1.2	24.5	3	99.96	0.44	61.94	14.61	8.11	2.52	0
52.8	2258	1.21	26	3	99.96	0.73	61.94	14.03	8.17	2.58	3.12
53.05	2284	1.22	26	3	99.96	0.87	62.33	13.8	8.82	2.56	5.47
53.29	2345	1.22	26.5	3	99.96	1.16	62.33	13.57	8.99	2.56	6.25
53.52	2390	1.23	26.5	3	99.96	1.31	62.33	13.45	9.18	2.66	7.81
53.75	2466	1.24	26.5	3	99.96	1.45	60.76	13.23	10.02	2.62	8.59
53.98	2502	1.26	26	3	99.96	1.6	59.98	13.23	10.17	2.72	8.59
54.21	2561	1.28	26	3	99.96	1.89	58.8	13.23	10.34	2.76	9.38
54.43	2592	1.3	25.5	3	99.96	2.03	56.84	13.23	10.6	2.8	9.38
54.68	2674	1.34	25.5	3	99.96	2.18	54.88	12.99	11.41	2.78	8.59
54.9	2730	1.39	24.5	3	99.96	2.32	53.7	12.99	11.65	2.92	7.81
55.15	2770	1.43	24.5	3	99.96	2.61	52.14	12.88	12.45	2.96	7.81
55.39	2853	1.48	24	3	99.96	2.9	50.96	13.11	13.45	2.86	0
55.64	2925	1.47	24.5	3	99.96	3.34	49	12.31	13.75	2.92	0
55.85	2967	1.48	24.5	3	99.96	3.63	46.26	12.53	14.1	3.04	0
56.08	3051	1.49	24.5	3	99.96	3.92	44.3	12.31	14.28	3.04	0
56.31	3115	1.5	24.5	3	99.96	4.21	42.73	11.96	15.21	3.06	0
56.54	3149	1.54	24.5	3	99.96	4.5	41.16	11.73	16.32	3.1	0
56.77	3233	1.56	24.5	3	99.96	4.93	40.38	11.39	17.26	3.1	0
56.99	3297	1.61	24	3	99.96	5.37	40.77	11.04	18.51	3.16	0
57.22	3392	1.67	23.5	3	99.96	5.66	40.77	11.04	20.22	3.2	0
57.45	3461	1.72	23	3	99.96	6.38	40.77	11.04	21.62	3.3	0
57.67	3564	1.79	22.5	3	99.96	6.96	41.16	11.04	22.71	3.36	0
57.9	3630	1.87	22	3	99.96	7.83	41.16	11.04	23.93	3.48	0
58.13	3740	1.95	21.5	3	99.96	8.7	41.16	11.04	26.16	3.58	0
58.36	3777	2.08	21	3	99.96	9.72	41.16	11.04	28.34	3.62	0
58.61	3895	2.3	16	3	99.96	11.31	41.55	11.04	33.04	3.78	0
58.85	4002	2.62	14	3	99.96	13.05	41.55	11.04	39.47	3.94	0
59.08	4123	3.03	11.5	3	99.96	15.81	38.42	11.04	46.08	4.16	0
59.31	4275	3.44	12	3	99.96	19.29	25.09	11.04	53.43	4.34	0
59.53	4365	3.68	12	3	99.96	21.61	10.58	11.04	58.12	4.38	0
59.76	4543	3.75	12.5	3	99.96	22.19	0	11.04	60.72	4.5	0
59.98	4691	3.67	13	3	99.96	21.9	0	11.04	57.76	4.46	0
60.21	4864	3.6	13.5	3	99.96	21.46	0	11.04	60.28	4.48	0
60.44	5002	3.59	14	3	99.96	21.03	0	11.04	60.98	4.54	0
60.66	5129	3.55	14.5	3	99.96	20.74	0	11.04	62.42	4.56	0
60.89	5240	3.62	14.5	3	99.96	20.88	0	11.04	65.62	4.6	0
61.12	5471	3.58	15	3	99.96	21.03	0	11.04	66.11	4.66	0
61.34	5543	3.51	15	3	99.96	20.88	0	11.04	67.26	4.68	0
61.57	5777	3.38	15.5	3	99.96	20.59	0	11.04	66.21	4.7	0
61.8	5842	3.32	15.5	3	99.96	20.45	0	11.04	66.71	4.7	0
62.02	6000	3.26	16.5	3	99.96	20.59	0	11.04	67.37	4.74	0
62.27	6105	3.18	16.5	3	99.96	20.74	0	11.04	67.44	4.74	0
62.49	6274	3.1	17	3	99.96	20.74	0	11.04	68.84	4.76	0
62.72	6463	3.04	17.5	3	99.96	20.74	0	11.04	68.37	4.78	0
62.95	6609	2.97	17.5	3	99.96	20.74	0	11.04	69.2	4.76	0
63.17	6647	2.92	18	3	99.96	21.03	0	11.04	68.91	4.76	0
63.4	6838	2.87	19	3	99.96	20.88	0	11.04	68.68	4.78	0
63.62	6894	2.82	19.5	3	99.96	21.03	0	11.04	67.76	4.78	0
63.85	7071	2.77	20	3	96.43	20.88	0	11.04	63.45	4.8	0
so in all its a pretty big difference. im going to try to get some more 3rd gear pulls in to even out the results
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Last edited by azn2nr; 11-28-2010 at 03:06 AM.
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Old 11-26-2010, 09:09 PM   #2
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Since this is posted twice, I'll ask twice...

It looks like the OEM subframe brace had to be removed too?
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Old 11-26-2010, 09:18 PM   #3
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I'm sorry, but with the way the EJ engine is with oil, you couldn't PAY me money to remove my factory oil cooler. the power gains can't be THAT much better than the right header. The oil cooler may not do much, but I'd like to have every bit of help I can get with the track record these engines have.
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Old 11-26-2010, 11:16 PM   #4
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subframe brace does not need to be removed and was not removed on my car. and i dont believe it was removed on the other car that has this header.

not sure what you mean with the way ej motors are with oil but in my experience it isnt nessary. if you track the car alot than sure it may be a good idea. but the stock one at best makes the oil the same temp as the coolant. its removeal is only required on cars that have the adapter piece that is posted with it which is 06-07 wrx. 04-05 and 08+ sti have a taller oil cooler and no adapter plate. if you had the adapter plate you could bend the coolant inlet line down so it doesnt hit the block and retain the cooler as well.

my point of reference on the nessisity of the oil cooler is a ej22t with 160k. i ran it hot and lean constantly; 16 autox a year and drag racing 20 times a year. with 16 psi on a 16g. it didnt have a factory oil cooler and it had no issues. crosshatching still visible when torn down. that and only a limited number of years of subarus came with a factory oil cooler
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Old 11-27-2010, 01:27 AM   #5
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FYI, the 08+ WRX doesnt come with an oil cooler from the factory. Removing the factory oil cooler is fine.

Installed this on my 2008 STi today. No fitment issues just like the OP said.
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Old 11-27-2010, 12:35 PM   #6
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OK I see it. Your comparisons are to what OEM? You're not showing a direct comparison RPM to RPM before and after and only a VERY small portion of RPMs. What about the rest of the curve? Why are the results different? Has it had an effect on a/f ratio, compared to OEM? Lots of variables to nail down before knowing what's going on here. I don't doubt it performs better than OEM, heck a $200 ebay header will perform better than OEM. How about compared to a popular aftermarket header like Perrin?

My concerns about fitment have been answered, thanks for the PM. All that's left is to see how long this thing lasts. I've NEVER seen 400 series stainless used on a turbo application because it's weaker than 304 at high temperatures and will corrode (inside and out). The reason it's used in OEM exhaust systems (not in manifold though) is because it's mandated by the EPA that exhaust systems must be warrantied for a minimum of 5 years, using 409 helps assure that will be met when compared to carbon steel.

The last thing of concern is the collector. Being formed the way it is will give thin and thick areas. Collectors not only collect the pulses, but take ALL the heat as well. Heat concentrations on a thin wall = bad.
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Old 11-27-2010, 08:52 PM   #7
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Its oem vs header with no tuning for the header. If you have ever seen a log you would know that there is no way to have the same reference point for the boost or rpm so the point that I picked the first cell to 20 or more psi (the car will build more than a psi in a single cell) and referenced the rpm.there's also no way to make the car load up exactly the same on the road but the results are within the standard deviation.if you want perrin results buy me one and ill test it for you. Lastly these tests were done without much heat in the header while its 20 degrees outside. If it were warmer the results may have been better.
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Old 11-27-2010, 09:01 PM   #8
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The rest of the curve is irrelevant in the log. The header is the first to peak boost and also gained a psi across the rest of the curve. Air fuel was effected accordingly but only a half of a point at most. The car only reads 11.04 afr in the log and that doesn't change in the log. It changes on my wideband though as far as the power band goes im sure it make more power bit I haven't done a full log to find out
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Old 11-27-2010, 11:25 PM   #9
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I know the RPMs won't match exactly, but show the datalog run from each, not just select cells. This shows us nothing about how it spools before and after, peak values, boost taper, wideband O2 readings, etc., etc. You said the A/F changed 1/2 point, that's significant and can account for spool up, power gains, etc. You hand picked a few cells, which essentially leaves more questions than answers. Just share the entire log for each pull so we can all see
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Old 11-27-2010, 11:44 PM   #10
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logs dont show changes in a/f. the stock sensor does not read it properly. and changes in afr are pruely anecdotal and based off of what i can see while topping 3rd gear

the point of the posted results is to show that it spools faster with no other changes. the tune did not change between adding the header so the fuel trims dont change but the efficiency's do. it doesnt matter what the rest of the log looks like. in the race to the boost target the first one there wins. its not like it will build boost slower then faster all of a sudden.

if you tell me how to post the excel sheet in code for the forum ill post it when i get home
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Old 11-28-2010, 12:00 AM   #11
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OK, gotcha. Your can't log wideband O2 readings Showing the whole log would help to understand why it's making power. Like I said before, 1/2 point a/f change can do a lot. Is it just because it's leaning things out, boost increase, intake temp changes, timing, and so on and so on. I know quicker spool is good, but that only tells a small part of the power curve's story, does it climb faster, slower, it is more consistent, does it spike at peak and taper or is it flat for a bit, when does boost taper off, and how fast, etc.?

I used to know how to post an excel file, but it's been too long for me to remember, lol. Try a print screen and post the image maybe? It would just be nice to see.
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Old 11-28-2010, 12:05 AM   #12
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well its a fp red on a ewg and mbc. so basically the curve is flat just comes in sooner and a pound higher
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Old 11-28-2010, 12:31 AM   #13
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What up-pipe did you have on the OEM manifold? Was that EWG too?

And correct me if I'm wrong (since I've never used one) but shouldn't the MBC cap the pressure at what it's set for regardless of what the targets are? If you're seeing more boost doesn't that mean the MBC has been adjusted for more boost?
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Old 11-28-2010, 12:41 AM   #14
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He was using the UR uppipe and yes he was EWG.

No.
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Old 11-28-2010, 12:53 AM   #15
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Everything posted above by bhhamblin is correct

Last edited by azn2nr; 11-28-2010 at 03:10 AM.
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Old 11-28-2010, 03:12 AM   #16
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logs posted. the very last log is the most recent and definately didnt happen on a flat road. you can tell if you run it through an airboy or virtual dyno
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Old 11-28-2010, 09:56 PM   #17
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very interesting.. so this won't crack?
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Old 11-28-2010, 10:16 PM   #18
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^it is more prone to cracking than any of the other stainless steels used for headers.
409 is borderline trash.
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Old 11-28-2010, 10:59 PM   #19
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it will likely crack. but so will any other manifold with the exception of maybe full race. hks offers the longest warranty next to tomei* which is 200 dollars more and requires you to weld in your own ewg flange. of course not everyone is ewg but alot of people are doing it now on stock manifolds and would like to upgrade. the only other one that allows you to do that is invidia which doesnt have as long of a warranty. and currently does not have reviews for fit or performance and its 265 dollars more than the hks.

*(i was not able to locate warranty info on full race's website. )

how long it takes to crack is another story. my car will be a really tough test. its got a big turbo, is driven every day ~10k every 6 months, its 3 inches off the ground and the ground is covered in snow and salt from now until march, and i dont have an undertray. so if anyone has a chance for it to crack because of temp change, salt, hard driving ect its gonna be me.

bhhamblin has had an aps manifold crack in 3k miles.

from another thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhhamblin View Post
^Ive personally never seen a stock up pipe fail. Ive owned 3 subarus and currently own 2. None of them has had problems. If you want to talk about an exhaust manifold cracking look at the APS. My first set cracked in 3000 miles, I then had it welded back up.

409 is oem. it will look like trash eventually but so far its outlasted my first set of headers which failed in 50 miles. and ive never had an oem crosspipe or uppipe fail. and this is my 3rd subaru. when it cracks ill let you all know.
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Old 11-28-2010, 11:45 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azn2nr View Post
it will likely crack. but so will any other manifold with the exception of maybe full race. hks offers the longest warranty next to tomei* which is 200 dollars more and requires you to weld in your own ewg flange.
I've been watching these headers some and this isn't the first time an aftermarket 409 header had been manufactured, note the word had. OEM manufacturers use the material because it's cheap, easier to manufacture and last long enough to cover original warranty periods. I'll save my judgements as there seem to be enough of them in here already, but since you mentioned warranties....

Our headers & up-pipe are made from 321 Stainless and will NOT crack. This grade of stainless is alloyed with titanium, and was developed by the aerospace industry specifically to eliminate manifold cracks in turbocharged applications. It also costs twice as much as 304, which is why it's used mostly on actual race cars and rarely on street cars.

If there ever was a problem they come with a lifetime warranty too.
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Old 11-29-2010, 12:05 AM   #21
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Your exhaust manifolds do look nice ill give you that. But for $1400 dollars id rather play with this one. The HKS one I purchased is on my daily driver which has a built short block stage 2 and will see some abuse. Maybe a few winter-x events as well. For the price I think this is a decent header. My APS header cracked very quickly but was also making 500+hp with their turbo kit and more heat.

If this HKS manifold cracks I will have it re-welded and be on my way. Or maybe the 4 year warranty will replace it no problem. Who knows.

Im not going to post in this thread anymore merely because it was not posted to start arguments. Just to show the gains, pros and cons of the product. If I have problems I will post them up

Brody
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Old 11-29-2010, 12:31 AM   #22
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Quote:
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I've been watching these headers some and this isn't the first time an aftermarket 409 header had been manufactured, note the word had. OEM manufacturers use the material because it's cheap, easier to manufacture and last long enough to cover original warranty periods. I'll save my judgements as there seem to be enough of them in here already, but since you mentioned warranties....

Our headers & up-pipe are made from 321 Stainless and will NOT crack. This grade of stainless is alloyed with titanium, and was developed by the aerospace industry specifically to eliminate manifold cracks in turbocharged applications. It also costs twice as much as 304, which is why it's used mostly on actual race cars and rarely on street cars.

If there ever was a problem they come with a lifetime warranty too.
your product looks very nice and for the price it damn well better be. but if you are so bold as to say that your product WILL NOT CRACK why offer a warranty? if it wont crack then it wont crack.

ive had vband downpipes leak much less an uppipe. i wouldnt want to risk it.
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Old 11-29-2010, 01:04 AM   #23
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Quote:
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your product looks very nice and for the price it damn well better be. but if you are so bold as to say that your product WILL NOT CRACK why offer a warranty? if it wont crack then it wont crack.

ive had vband downpipes leak much less an uppipe. i wouldnt want to risk it.
Obviously we hope to never have to warranty a part, and it's been designed that way. People ask, "what if?" and the warranty is to address those concerns. How sketch would it sound if we just said that our headers were so great they come with no warranty?

Just because you've had v-bands leak, don't speak for ours. Just like our oil pans and oil pickups they go through a battery of quality tests before they go out the door, including leak testing. If the V-band leaks, it doesn't ship. We've never had any of these products returned for a warranty claim. We design with a 'failure is not an option' mentality and pour a ton of time into engineering, development and testing before a product is released.

We are so picky about quality we manufacture all of our won stuff, including the v-band flanges to our own specifications so we have absolute control over materials, surface finish, etc. Can we get v-band flanges cheaper from a distributor? Absolutely, but then you're at the mercy of where they get the best deal on thier latest purchase of 1,000 flanges, which means inconsistency or lacking quality or worse. When these parts go out our door we are intimately involved with every step of the process so we can confidently stand behind it.

Ha, sorry for the ramble... it's late
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Old 11-29-2010, 06:58 PM   #24
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On the market their are ALLOT of header options, some work well and other not so well.

HKS saw a need for a quality inexpensive header to be produced that simply worked.
409 is more then sufficient to hold up to the job that is given at hand. Cost got cut in 2 ways, material and design. The stamped collector works, and even though its not the best looking piece it gets the job done. And with a 4 year warranty, its built to last! (heck Subaru doesn't even offer a 4 year warranty on their cars unless you pay extra)

Just looking at the material information sheet.
321 is a much stronger metal with a lower thermal conductivity (which means it absorbs less heat energy allowing more to be carried thought the system). However 321 also does have roughly 6mm/m/C more thermal expansion from 0-538C. So in other words, the metal does grow, so to prevent cracking the material is made stronger to cope with the thermal expansion.

Every product has a reason, and has its benefits and down sides. It all comes down to getting a product to meat your needs and budget while will performing as designed.

409 SS
http://www.azom.com/details.asp?ArticleID=969

321 SS
http://www.azom.com/details.asp?ArticleID=967

304 SS
http://www.azom.com/details.asp?ArticleID=965


ps. In all honesty Inconel would be the best metal to use. But 1) stupid expensive 2) hard to work with. This is the preference for F1 and WRC do to the materials ability to deal with heat and efficiency, but the last material for average consumers do to header costs for Subarus reaching 10K+.
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Last edited by RallySport Direct; 11-29-2010 at 07:03 PM.
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Old 11-29-2010, 07:25 PM   #25
KillerBMotorsport
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^ Good points. Every header is designed with a target audience in mind, whether it be the econo builder, daily driver/canyon carver, weekend racer or full track-car.

If HKS wanted to target inexpensive/quality I'd say they're probably pretty close to the mark.
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