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Old 12-11-2010, 12:59 PM   #1
BCallahan
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Default Blizzak problem?

So I'm new to winter tires, and wanted a little reassurance or possible advisement.

I put WS70s on 16" steelies two weeks ago, and I noticed that when I get above 75mph the car begins to vibrate a little. The speed rating is T (118mph) so I thought that speed would be alright.

Is this normal or should I be concerned?

Any help's appreciated.
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Old 12-11-2010, 02:10 PM   #2
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the speed rating is fine. i've actually taken 99mph rated ws-60s to over 100mph (dont do that). the vibration could simply be poor balancing or worn out suspension joints.
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Old 12-11-2010, 02:16 PM   #3
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Likely a bad balance/hard to balance wheel/hard to balance tire.

I have 215/45/17 WS70's and I find them very good on dry pavement compared to previous generation Blizzaks, no hint of vibration however.

Do one, or more, of your wheels have a ton of weights on them?
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Old 12-11-2010, 03:35 PM   #4
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Two problems the speed rating will not cause a vibration however a T rated tire does not meet the performance rating your car requiers. Second issue the steel wheels are they suburu wheels or are they aftermarket? Reason i ask is what u are describing is caused by the wheels not being hub centric meaning the hub on your car does not fit firm to the center bore of the wheel. This will cause a vibration at 45 mph and can cause some other issues. hope this helps. we also sell V speed rated snow if you want to switch out Tom@waukegantire.com
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Old 12-11-2010, 04:01 PM   #5
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^very good point about the wheels.

I have Blizzak WS70's, can't recall the letter corresponding to the speed rating, but it's 106mph. I'm fine with that as if I'm driving those speeds in winter in Calgary I deserve to spend a long time in jail. Highest highway speeds my car sees in summer, on my summer tires, is 140-160 km/h, far above the speed limit, but that's the average speed of all the other traffic.

Edit: Sorry, I'm also a T rating, 118.

Last edited by mudferret; 12-11-2010 at 04:12 PM.
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Old 12-11-2010, 05:08 PM   #6
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sorry this is kind of off topic... But, what do you think of the WS70's? I'm considering getting some. Any idea how they do on snow/ice? I hear they're great on snow, but as far as studless... it's better to be more careful on ice. Altho, isn't that normally the case for ice?
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Old 12-11-2010, 05:19 PM   #7
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I'm very happy with them thus far. They do fairly well on ice, you can take off from a stop without spinning wheels as long as you don't step on it. I've done a few test panic stops on icy roads and after a few feet of sliding they begin to bite. They plow through snow and soft pack/drier slush with ease and don't feel squirrelly when you change lanes over the snow mounds that form between lanes. Do as well as any other tire in wet slush.

On dry pavement they do fairly well, a little bit of noise, but nothing unbearable. No compromise in control, or feel, at normal freeway speeds on dry roads, although you can't come to complete stop on dry roads as quickly as you're used to, and they are rather noisy under hard braking on dry pavement. You can still make them oversteer on snow at will, but it takes much more throttle. Haven't experienced ANY understeer yet.

I'm actually kind of bummed out it's been mild enough the past few weeks that the roads are now completely bare. Need more snow.
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Old 12-11-2010, 05:24 PM   #8
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Just a note on speed ratings and there importance,putting snow tires on for safty is a great idea but to lower your speed rating you increase your stopping distance in dry wet and snow conditions. the speed rating has much more to do with braking and handiling then top speed. So dont sell yourself short mach proper speed rating to the need of your car.
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Old 12-11-2010, 05:30 PM   #9
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care to back that up with a source? sounds like BS to me....
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Old 12-11-2010, 05:59 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtwwholesaletire View Post
Just a note on speed ratings and there importance,putting snow tires on for safty is a great idea but to lower your speed rating you increase your stopping distance in dry wet and snow conditions. the speed rating has much more to do with braking and handiling then top speed. So dont sell yourself short mach proper speed rating to the need of your car.
This is 75% BS. The speed rating of the car has nothing to do with the performance during braking at normal speeds on public roads. Handling is debatable as high speed rated tires will have stiffer sidewalls by rule which can improve handling but most of us are not trying to maximize G's on a snow tire.
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Old 12-11-2010, 06:16 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mudferret View Post
Do one, or more, of your wheels have a ton of weights on them?
Discount Tire installed the tires for me, and 3 of the 4 tires have a little silver weight on them. Is this bad? Sloppy/lazy installation?
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Old 12-11-2010, 06:19 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtwwholesaletire View Post
Second issue the steel wheels are they suburu wheels or are they aftermarket? Reason i ask is what u are describing is caused by the wheels not being hub centric meaning the hub on your car does not fit firm to the center bore of the wheel. This will cause a vibration at 45 mph and can cause some other issues. hope this helps. Tom@waukegantire.com
That does help. They are aftermarket wheels, but I assumed that Discount Tire would check all that for me. I think that I'll take them back in to have them take a look.

Would spacers solve this issue?
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Old 12-11-2010, 06:40 PM   #13
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spacers never help
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Old 12-11-2010, 07:27 PM   #14
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Thanks for all the info. Sound like great tires! and... as far as the snow? I can't blame ya. Snow makes driving much more fun! hard on the paint... but fun!
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Old 12-11-2010, 08:13 PM   #15
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Me too it did that and I have WS70, but I finally understand that it was all the snow in the wheels... it's stopped after some time...
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Old 12-11-2010, 10:43 PM   #16
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A few months ago Bridgestone Tire sent me to a clinic where we got to thrash 4 identical BMW 328i sedans around a small test track. Each vehicle was equipped with Bridgestone tires, the primary difference being the Speed Rating of each tire. Car #1 had T (118mph) speed rated tires, Car #2 had H (130mph) speed rated tires, matching the OEM tires on that model BMW, Car #3 and V (149mph) and Car #4 had W (168mph). All of the tires were various models of Bridgestones - no cheap junk.

On the T speed rated tires the car felt like driving an old Buick. It was spongy and imprecise with noticably more understeer and required longer braking distances - it was easy to overshoot the corner. The H speed rated tires felt much better. Now it felt like I was driving a BMW instead of a sloppy old Buick and the speed rating difference is only 12mph. As we progressed up to the next two cars steering responsiveness, overall grip and braking performance improved noticably. The difference in lap times was stunning yet. And guess what? Top speeds in this test probably never exceeded 50-55mph.

Tire construction changes the higher the speed rating. Different components and different tread compounds are used in order to ensure that the tire can hold together at high speeds. This can and does have an impact in how your vehicle will drive at legal road speeds. If you want to chance it, take those V-rated tires off, put on some S or T rated tires then take that cloverleaf on the way to work the same way you used to. I guarantee you won't like the result. Unsafe? Probably not, but you will definately be reducing the capabilities engineered into your car.

No single item has a greater impact on how a vehicle drives than the tires. I presume the reason you bought the car is because you liked how it drove. The reason the car drives like it does is because it was engineered around a V rated tire. Mixing tires of different speed ratings on the same vehicle is never a good idea because it can give the vehicle a real Frankenstein kind of character, what with having tires of very different capabilities on different corners of the car. But yes, the more capable tires should always be on the rear axle to promote good vehicle stability (prevent spinouts).
Source(s):automotiveforums.com
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Old 12-11-2010, 10:48 PM   #17
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Lower speed rate does lower performance: braking distance is longer, straight line and lateral acceleration is slower, steering response is slower ... I know these effects because I tried several lower speed rates, from H down to T and S, for V rated '94 LS400.
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Old 12-12-2010, 07:48 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtwwholesaletire View Post
All of the tires were various models of Bridgestones - no cheap junk.
You're joking, right?


Quote:
On the T speed rated tires the car felt like driving an old Buick. It was spongy and imprecise with noticably more understeer and required longer braking distances - it was easy to overshoot the corner.
Trying to run an autocross on a studless ice+snow tire? Also, if the tires are even front to back like OEM tires handling balance will be unaffected. Learn to drive.



Quote:
Tire speed rating changes with intended performance goals.
FTFY. Speed rating is a result of construction, not a driver of construction. Speed rating is not the primary design goal.

Quote:
The reason the car drives like it does is because it was engineered around a V rated tire.
OP's car was not designed around a V rated tire, it was designed around a dunlop SP sport 600, which happens to be V rated (W, actually, get your facts straight).



Quote:
Mixing tires of different speed ratings on the same vehicle is never a good idea because it can give the vehicle a real Frankenstein kind of character
were did this get mentioned?



Saying the OP's choice of blizzaks was the wrong one because of the speed rating is ridiculous. Obviously he should keep in mind that his car can exceed the maximum running speed of the tire, but I don't think he'll be hitting 118 on public roads anyway...


Would you recommend he run the SP 600's during the winter to maintain his speed rating? Hint: he won't find a snow tire which maintains the OEM "W" speed rating. At all. Even in the performance section.

Last edited by sniper1rfa; 12-12-2010 at 01:45 PM.
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Old 12-12-2010, 09:26 AM   #19
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i would not recomend a sp600 but would recomend not dropping 3 speed rating's.But a V speed rated tire would have very close to the same braking capabilities.

we are talking about a guys D.D not auto cross?

But hey you know more than Suburu's engineer and me a guy that has 20 years in the tire biz. i am going to go learn to drive!?

good day.....
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Old 12-12-2010, 11:01 AM   #20
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wtwwholesaletire - well 20 years in tire business did not prevent you from choosing WS50 and complain later about its poor tread wear.
Winter tires are allowed exceptions to speed rating. Even Germans have a law that requires them to have a sticker inside the car when driven on lower speed rated winter tires. So they do use lower speed rated tires on autobahn.

Untill recently studless ice and snow tires were Q rated only (99 mph). Their compound was unable to survive higher speeds. It is quite recent developement to have R rated tires. If one wants/needs higher speed rating one buys performance winter.

To OP.

wtwwholesaletire point for properly sized center bore is a good one. I suspect that you may want to go back to installer and ask them to check the balance first (or rotate wheels to see if behaviour changes) and inquire about center bore while doing this.

Krzys
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Old 12-12-2010, 01:18 PM   #21
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This is what the Rubber Manufacturers Association has to say (TISB 42/01) on speed rating of winter tires.:

"If a vehicle placard specifies speed-rated tires, winter/snow tires of equivalent or greater speed
rating must be fitted if the speed capability of the vehicle is to be maintained. For cases where
the winter/snow tires’ speed rating cannot match the original equipment (OE) tire, it is generally
acceptable to apply a winter/snow tire with a lower speed rating than the OE tire; however, the
vehicle speed is to be restricted to that of the replacement tire.
Refer to the vehicle owner's man-
ual for specific recommendations and/or restrictions regarding winter/snow tires. "
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Old 12-12-2010, 01:40 PM   #22
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And Bridgestone tells us:

"When lower speed rated winter tires replace higher speed rated touring and high performance all-season radial tires, speed should be reduced accordingly. Follow recommendations in vehicle owner’s manual for winter tires, studs and chains."

http://www.bridgestonetire.com/warranty/warr8.htm
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Old 12-12-2010, 01:58 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtwwholesaletire View Post
But a V speed rated tire would have very close to the same braking capabilities.

Once again, speed rating is not indicative of performance capabilities. For example, you'll find that the bridgestone turanza serenity has an identical speed rating (and load rating) to the kumho ecsta V710. Do you think the all season is going to brake anywhere near as well as the r-comp?


And sorry for bringing up autocross, it just seemed like a good idea since the article you quoted was clearly talking lap times and handling response:
Quote:
The difference in lap times was stunning yet.


Also, if you look carefully at my post, you'll see the question mark.

Last edited by sniper1rfa; 12-13-2010 at 09:12 AM.
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