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Old 07-04-2002, 12:57 AM   #1
bensonwrx
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Unhappy Turbo installed, now car just won't start; help requested!

Ok, so after 4 days in the shop the LudeSPEED Stage II is completed. Everything is hooked up including the S-AFC, TT, gauges, and J&S.
When I turned the key, the car would crank but not start. I could hear the sound that it's turning over, but just didn't start up.
We later found out that there was no spark. Then the mechanic was checking on the voltage on the J&S and ECU wires, and he mentioned something about a white wire (for J&S) producing 12v and he thought that's abnormal. He's suspecting maybe that's the cause.
We checked everything again and all plugs were in, the TT is working properly and so is the S-AFC. So he said it's either the ECU was cooked or the J&S needs proper hook-up.
We also checked the fuses and all are okay. The unit I bought was belonged to Joncas, and I believed 8Complex used to own that?
We called J&S and John told the mechanic the 98 J&S installation diagram was wrong actually...so we were kinda upset. He said he would contact us but never did
Guys! Please help me out here...I really want to get my car rolling; it's terrible to see the motor blows, but worse to not even getting the car to run.
Thanks

-Benson (Another MY98 Owner)
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Old 07-04-2002, 01:02 AM   #2
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things that play with you ignition timing (ie ITC) will do that to your car.. if the ITC was hooked up wrong the car would crank but no spark.. I would assume that the j&S would do the same since it uses the same principal to retard timing.

Brad
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Old 07-04-2002, 01:24 AM   #3
Avenger
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Did you get those plugs with the J&S that you can plug back together and elminate the J&S? If you do try them and see if it starts up after you disconnected the J&S.

I got some problem with my J&S not starting the car once in a while and e-mail J&S but no reply.. No idea what happend. Right now I have it disconnected and everything runs properly.
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Old 07-04-2002, 01:32 AM   #4
KillerTHC
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does the fuel pump purge when you put it to the on position. i had a problem where the wire loom melted and was shorting out the fuel pump. check all the fuses (especially the 30 amp ones).
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Old 07-04-2002, 04:38 AM   #5
bensonwrx
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Well the mechanic told me he checked one particular wire (white one for J&S) that is putting out 12v and he thinks that's odd, since the others are like 4.5v or very low.
He said it's disable now, but still wouldn't start. It does have fuel going in, b/c the fuel just ate up (melted) one of the hose Tom sent me for the dual feed fuel mod.
I will try and ask the mechanic to hook the J&S up again, and play around with it for a bit.
Any chance knowing what settings shall the J&S set to? I know there are switches and also the knob.
John of J&S talked to my mechanic but he mentioned the diagram he drew for the 98 is wrong! So I am not too happy about it.
Fuses are all checked and nothing blown.
Worse yet, I just found out someone in the shop put 2 deep scratches on the hood, meaning it needs to be repainted. Guys, do you think I can make the shop to compensate this?
Thanks

More idea welcome, and info on J&S is certainly appreciated!

-Benson (Another MY98 Owner)
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Old 07-04-2002, 08:33 AM   #6
DJIMPREZA
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Benson!

Just a little advice, if you get to frustated with the car not turning on, and you are not able to receive any important info from John, try to put all the ignition wires that the J&S intercepted back to stock!! is very unlikely your ecu is fried!! its even very well protected against the most harders car crashes etc!
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Old 07-04-2002, 12:34 PM   #7
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The J&S diagram that I have shows that the red wire (terminal 3) should be +12V for the coil pack. The white (terminal 6) and green (terminal 5) wires should be connected to the negative side of the coil pack. Terminal 4 is ground. Terminal 1 is for the knock sensor and terminal 2 is for the throttle position sensor. Terminals 7 and 8 are not marked.

Hope this helps.

Steve
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Old 07-04-2002, 03:14 PM   #8
8Complex

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If you have bypasses the J&S and are still not getting spark, the most likely problem is that you have the ITC or S-AFC hooked up to a power source that cuts out during cranking. Make sure it is hooked to a source that does not cut out and you should be alright.

The J&S was a brand new unit, so if there is anything wrong... back to J&S it goes.

I am willing to bet that it is the interrupted power problem though, so check that out before rewiring everything.

Also, I have full manual pages for all the ECU pinouts and wiring diagrams for the ECU circuitry in JPG format for MY98 Impreza 2.5RS's. If you would like, give me an email address that can hold a good sized file (~1meg) and I'll send them over to you.
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Old 07-04-2002, 05:35 PM   #9
bensonwrx
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Thanks 8
The mechanic had been installing many SAFC, so I would think he should know what he's doing. He was suspecting the TT did something wrong that triggered the alarm to kill the ignition, but later found out it wasn't (we triggered it on purpose and car wouldn't even crank).
I printed out the 98 ECU wiring diagram and gave them to the mechanic already.
Just hope everything is alright while I am gone for 4 days.

-Benson (Another MY98 Owner)
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Old 07-04-2002, 05:37 PM   #10
Graham
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This is exactly what happened to me when my dad and I hooked up my J&S. It took us about 7 hours, but we finally realized just how WRONG the directions really were. We had two different sets of instructions and each directly conradicted eachother. We tried at least 5 times to start the car and only got a crank, no start. We just fiddled around with the IGNITION IN and OUT wires on the J&S and eventually started it. Mine is 2001 RS, so its different than yours. Also, if you can, have the guy installing it solder everything instead of using the Weatherpack connectors or vampire clamps he may be using.

Like I said, my problem was the IGNITION IN and OUT wires on the J&S unit, there should be two sets, one set for each two cylinders.

Also, just out of curiousity, who is this shop you are having do the install? Iīm in Europe right now, so I canīt exactly run out to my car and tell you what to put where, hope everything turns out alright.

Graham
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Old 07-04-2002, 06:33 PM   #11
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Benson,

With my J&S unit, the white wire is one of the IGN outputs to the coil pack. It should be okay to have 12V on it, although mine are no more than 5V. What you also need to see is that it pulses between 5V-12V and GND, which is what really triggers the coil pack. Otherwise, you may have a blown output.

I don't know if it helps, but here's what I have for my J&S wiring diagram:
IGN 1 IN - brown
IGN 2 IN - green
IGN 1 OUT - yellow with markings
IGN 2 OUT - white
KNOCK SENSOR MIC - blue
+12V POWER - red
GND - black
TPS IN - yellow

DIP switches:
SW1 = up
SW2 = down
SW3, SW4 = up

-WaC
Wayne
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Old 07-04-2002, 11:40 PM   #12
Darshu
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Here's the install diagram I made up for the new-gen J&S into a MY98.

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Old 07-05-2002, 05:10 AM   #13
bensonwrx
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Thank you thank you thank you all!
I will go tomorrow with print-out of this entire post...hopefully will work!

Darshu: New gen J&S means Version II? I think mine is Version I (kinda purple/violet color, instead of black which I think is Version 0).

Graham: Thanks for the hint!

wac: Your J&S version?

-Benson (Another MY98 Owner)
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Old 07-05-2002, 02:13 PM   #14
8Complex

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Quote:
Originally posted by bensonwrx
Darshu: New gen J&S means Version II? I think mine is Version I (kinda purple/violet color, instead of black which I think is Version 0).
Yes, if it was the one that came through me from the group buy way back when, it is the one just previous to the current version with the boost-based retard. IIRC, they were finally delivered July last year (took 4 months for J&S to make & send them), so that's about the manufacture date on it.
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Old 07-05-2002, 06:10 PM   #15
Darshu
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Actually that diagram is based on the one I've got which is super-brand-new and has the voltage clamp (which I don't use) and MAP-based retard (which I do). I can't really speculate how the wiring harness has changed, but the notes about which wire on the ECU harness is which are accurate at least
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Old 07-07-2002, 02:05 AM   #16
bensonwrx
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Thanks Darshu, I do hope it will work.

So guys...I will head to the shop tomorrow with the print out of this thread.

Anything important that I should know? Please let me know, if possible.

Much appreciated!

-Benson (Another MY98 Owner)
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Old 07-08-2002, 10:00 PM   #17
bensonwrx
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Edited: The TPS isn't hooked up yet, since the instructions said so, until the car actually starts.

Update:
The J&S is hooked up again, and car would crank at all. Read the instruction again, and it said ALL 4 switches on the J&S mode select switch MUST be up for first time starting.
I switched the 4th one down, and the J&S power is cut (no light on the unit); switched back up and it lights up again.
Then I switched the 3rd one down, and the car would crank; switch back up and no crank.
Confusing enough, the instructions said 3rd and 4th switches are supposed to be in UP position, so I don't know what is wrong. When the car is cranking, the light on the J&S is blinking (flashing), so that's good.
However, there is still no spark and there is no power to the coilpak causing the spark.
We checked all fuses, and plugs (pulled off IC to check the plugs underneath) and everything is fine. The cruise control is the only thing we didn't hook up, b/c Tom did not send me a bracket to relocate it.
No aftermarket ITC is installed, only the S-AFC and TT. Mechanic checked them and said they should not cut the power to prevent spark though. The alarm was thought to be the cause, but it actually prevents any crank at all, rather than crank but no spark.
Any idea guys? Need to get the car running to move it out; car is getting dirty/oily and the hood has more scratches again!
Thanks

-Benson (Another MY98 Owner)

Last edited by bensonwrx; 07-08-2002 at 10:40 PM.
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Old 07-09-2002, 01:17 AM   #18
8Complex

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Call John at J&S and ask him what the switches should be set to. Ask him which ones do what and make double sure that your car matches what he has written down. I know people with J&S's in MY98's, so they have to work with the car.

It really does sound like a problem with the J&S... can't tell if it's the unit or not, because the wiring is so unsure. :-/
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Old 07-09-2002, 04:41 AM   #19
Ethan
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Maybe you tried this already, sorry if I missed it, but why not take the J&S thing out, then if thats doesn't help, take the other things out. Sort of hard to find the problem when a lot of things were added at once you know what I mean? Like maybe the problem is comming from the S-AFC
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Old 07-09-2002, 06:36 AM   #20
bensonwrx
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We called John already, but he couldn't help us b/c he was unsure about the J&S wiring on MY98 either
Ethan: We did and didn't seem to help the matter much. My friend is trying to get a hold of an OBD-II scanner...hope he gets it.

-Benson (Another MY98 Owner)
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Old 07-10-2002, 12:21 AM   #21
bensonwrx
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Default Update

Well, everything is taken out again - J&S, TT, AFC...and even tried keyless entry and alarm unplugged; car wouldn't crank at all. When you turn the key, the digital clock is off like normal, but nothing else is working.
Friend of mine brought over the OBD-II scanner and checked; nothing showed up. Then he tried to plug in the green connectors (for diagnostic). Diagnostic worked as fans just kicking in, and at the same time using the OBD-II to check again and pulled 8 codes. Front/Back O2 sensors malfunction, TPS out of range, VSS malfunction, MAF test out of range...something else not too important.
Someone is saying maybe the VSS is not plugged back or loose, or else it's the worst case - ECU cooked. He said that with battery out of several days, and car hasn't been started ever since, the ECU won't pull so many codes at once...
I do not know how much to replace it, but suspecting that it ain't cheap. One more thing to add to the 'Why not to turbo' list.

-Benson (Another MY98 Owner)
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Old 07-10-2002, 01:40 AM   #22
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sorry dude. i feel real bad for you. i think this is why i didn't turbo my rs.
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Old 07-10-2002, 05:32 AM   #23
bensonwrx
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Quote:
Originally posted by spiralsmurf
sorry dude. i feel real bad for you. i think this is why i didn't turbo my rs.
Thanks, although yours is the newer one, and to be honest it's easier to find info on. The ECU is differnt too, which they are easier/cheaper to find/replace if something happen.

Urgh...I can't sleep.

-Benson (Another MY98 Owner)
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Old 07-10-2002, 08:07 AM   #24
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Default My experiance

When I first turboed my car I used the JC Sports Torque chip and my car drove for a short bit but then the chip shorted everything out. It would crank but not turn over. I would check all your fuses. Chances are your ECU is fine, there are alot of fuses protecting it. and you blew a fuse. In my case it was the one of the big pink ones in the engine bay compartment fuse box. Where I got stupid was I still had the chip in, which was causing the problem and then watched as the guy at the gas station I got stuck at stuck a screw driver in to make the connection. The car started for a second and then stopped once he removed the screw driver, this was done mulitply times. I the removed the chip and bought a new fuse but my car was never the same. I had a lot of blown relays and such including a damaged ECU. I feel it is to due to the over riding of the fuse that this damage was cause you should be fine as long as you loacte the what fuse was blown.
Joshua
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Old 07-10-2002, 08:46 AM   #25
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For one, make sure your half-witted "mechanic" has every wire hooked up properly. Granted late model fuel injected cars certainly aren't cake-walks, diagnosing problems on them is not rocket science. There is a very real chance your ECU is toasted, however, the car not cranking at all, periodicly, really makes me wonder.

Is the battery half-way dead from all this cranking?

When things like the alarm were by-passed, was EVERYTHING by-passed, all starting relays precicely? Just unplugging many alarms will certainly render the car useless, obviously, they don't want the theif to be able to reach under the dash and drive your car away.

As for the scratches - yes, I would hold the shop 100% accountable for these, but you'll have a hard time getting anything out of them unless you point them out and they admit to them OR you have proof they weren't there originally.

If in fact after you have your mechanic return the electronics to COMPLETE stock form, TPS hooked back up, ECU completely RESET, everything tripple checked both under the hood and in cabin, and the car still doesn't start, the ECU is probably gone. I would hold the mechanic accountable for this as well assuming John at J&S isn't to blame, that will be your judgement call as far as what diagrams were correct, etc.

If you have to pay to repair the damage professionals have caused while you entrusted them with your vehicle, you've been had. Take your business elsewhere, and take them to court. Whatever you do, don't let them convince you they are not to blame, and most of all, good luck on your car. I had a very hairy time installing my S-AFC in my 1990 Legacy, with a completely backwards wiring diagram. I actually tested every wire to make sure I had the correct ones. Things like the TPS were easy, but things like the MAF sensor were tricky, and I ended up using 15ft of 24ga wire and my trusty multi-meter to test them.

Call me crazy, but when in doubt, I don't hook things up wrong. It would have been either a $300 afc or a $300+ ecu or both had I messed up!
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