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Old 12-13-2010, 07:01 PM   #1
SilverBulletTR
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Question Diagnose my Wheel/Tire Problem

Sorry about the long winded post but I wanted to make sure you guys had the facts right.

So I have searched the threads and can't seem to find anyone having the same issue as me for my summer wheel/tire configuration. I have had these wheels and tires about a year and a half now, I bought them brand new and they only have about 15k miles on them maximum. For some reason when I get up past 60mph my steering wheel begins to vibrate and shake. It becomes a little unnerving after a while so I end up taking the wheel and tires off after a month or two of this and put the stockers back on and the everything goes back to normal.

I have been to three different shops to get them balanced and my alignment checked and each shop says they are fine but they re-balance them just to be safe. When the setup was first put on my car the shop I bought them from did a fender roll and pull to be safe the configuration would fit and they put about a degree or two of camber on them as well. I drove around like this for about 5k and noticed some vibration in the wheel but nothing like it is now. I stored them over last winter in my house in tire tote bags.

When I put them on this past spring I put them on and the vibration seemed to have gotten progressively worse. I then had a different shop take a look at them who found nothing wrong with the balance on teh wheels but decided to bring my camber back to normal on the car since they said the clearances were fine, long story short, I ended up taking them off again and went through trying to get a shop to figure out what is wrong with the setup. I have yet to find an answer and don't know if its just the tires or rims. Before I go buying new tires or rims I wanted to see what you guys thought. Thanks guys for your help.

Wheel/Tire Specs:
Rota G-Force 18x9.5 35mm offset (no spacers used)
Bridgestone RE760's 245-35-18
McGard Spline Drive Lugs
Stock Suspension
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Old 12-13-2010, 07:09 PM   #2
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Have you checked the wheels for lateral and axial runout?
Are the wheels hub-centric?
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Old 12-13-2010, 07:13 PM   #3
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Rota.......
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Old 12-13-2010, 07:22 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SubLGT View Post
Have you checked the wheels for lateral and axial runout?
Are the wheels hub-centric?
Sorry but I am a little ignorant when it comes to tire/wheel tech but do you mean are the wheels almost "lop-sided"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesubby View Post
Rota.......
Is Rota notorious for problems like this? Before I bought them I read a bunch of reviews and looked at tons of pictures of the different setups and thought they would be fine.

Thanks guys...

Last edited by SilverBulletTR; 12-13-2010 at 09:26 PM.
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Old 12-13-2010, 10:24 PM   #5
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Simple fix you need hub rings.90% of all aftermarket wheels are not hub-centric and unfortunaly 90% of shops don't care to check this or even know what to look for.

If the hub of the wheel is not snug tight to the hub on your car you will have a vibration that will not go away no matter how many times you balance them.

we stock rings if you have no luck.
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Old 12-13-2010, 10:56 PM   #6
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Hub rings!
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Old 12-13-2010, 11:03 PM   #7
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Assuming based on your name you have a wrx tr 06-07. The Hub bore on our cars is 56.1mm...and assuming you have G-forces that are 18x9 since I can't find any evidence that a 9.5 exists...the hub bore on that wheel is 73mm. That leaves you with a huge gap for the wheel to be mounted incorrectly on the hub. As you drive and the wheel moves around the the hub or as you take the wheels on and off the car...the position of the wheel on the hub changes causing the vibration to lessen or worsen. The Hubcentric ring fills that gap and forces the wheel to only be mounted in the centre of the hub...essentially turning your hub into a 73mm bore instead of 56mm. No amount of balancing can fix that gap and I've seen many customers with aftermarket wheels that have the same concern...HAPPY HUNTING!!

http://www.justforwheels.com/index.j...cat=hubcentric

Last edited by LexusMechanic; 12-13-2010 at 11:08 PM.
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Old 12-14-2010, 05:47 AM   #8
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Thanks guys for the input. I should have mentioned that I DO have hub centering rings but after reading what everyone is saying this would be the logical problem so it has me now doubting the rings are the correct size. And I am sorry but the rims are 18x9 not 18x9.5 as I previously stated. I bought the rings when I bought the rims from the shop and assumed they had given me the right size. I just looked back on their site and they have two sizes of rings I can buy:

67mm - 56.1mm

or

72.6mm - 56.1mm

I will be calling them to look at my account and see which size they sold me also.
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Old 12-14-2010, 10:37 AM   #9
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The wheel manufacture would be able to tell you exactly what size hub they make. They also should have rings that fit perfect
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Old 12-14-2010, 12:09 PM   #10
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I talked to the shop I bought the rings from to have them confirm what size metal rings they sold me and they stated they sold me 72.6mm - 56.1mm rings which technically would be the size needed to fit the hub and wheel properly even though the correct size really is 73 -56.1. I explained to them the issue I am having with the vibrations and they said that it was a weird problem because everything should be OK with that setup.

I don't know what the issue could be the shop told me to set up an appointment and bring the car by to have them take a look at what could be causing the issue but I really don't want to spend more money and have them say they can't find anything wrong either. I'm not really sure what to do at this point.
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Old 12-14-2010, 12:21 PM   #11
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72.6mm that could be issue,also if one ring is installed wrong or bent.I would feel better with 73mm new rings

i forgot to mention also be sure they removed the retaining clips from the hub of the car, the o.e wheels has a a cut out where the aftermarket does not and this will cause the wheel to not sit flush. this can also cause a wheel off while driving.God forbid.
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Old 12-14-2010, 12:34 PM   #12
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Even with the correct hubcentric rings, I am a proponent of installing and torquing the wheels off the ground. This way you are assured that the weight of the car doesn't have a chance to effectively push-up the wheel (car goes down, wheel goes up) and misalign it to the hub.

Although not as common, it is very possible that a tire may have a bad belt in it that shifts. So no matter what, even after having that tire rebalanced, once you drive on it, the belt shifts thus throwing the balance off.
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Old 12-14-2010, 12:43 PM   #13
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Did any of these shops have a road force wheel/tire balance machine? There could be a bend in the wheel or an issue with the tire that a normal dynamic balance will not pick up (ie balance "fine") where as this type of issue would be seen on a road force machine.. This is likely the case as the vibration is dependent on speed.
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Old 12-14-2010, 01:30 PM   #14
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Great point Road force is a great Balancer we use Hunters GSP9700, problem is finding a guy that knows how to operate one.
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Old 12-14-2010, 04:27 PM   #15
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I would tend to think that one or more of the wheels may be bent/not true. It is true that hubcentric rings will help, but your lug nuts are conical, thus lugcentric. It's that, or your tires are cupping badly
Just my opinion

Matt
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Old 12-14-2010, 04:27 PM   #16
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The shop I bought everything from does have a Hunter 9700 maybe I will take it to them after the holidays and let them see what they can find. I have nothing wrong with the shop just worries me they didn't find something wrong when they first mounted all of it. I saw that discount tire direct has what looks to be a good set of rings in the exact 73 measurement so I may pick those up as well to be on the safe side. I appreciate everyone's help and if you have any further input please feel free...I will also keep you guys posted what I find. Thanks!
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Old 12-14-2010, 04:36 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach V Matt View Post
It's that, or your tires are cupping badly


Matt
I was going to say cupping. But I just bought some 760s, so I was trying to ignore such a scenario

(my car tends to cup the hell out of front tires).

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Old 12-14-2010, 07:17 PM   #18
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Sorry but what do you guys mean by tire cupping? Thanks
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Old 12-14-2010, 08:01 PM   #19
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it's how the tire looks based on different problems.

Good link w examples of over/under/cupping tire wear at link below:

http://www.procarcare.com/includes/c...dtirewear.html
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Old 12-14-2010, 08:06 PM   #20
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Your rings are fine, and Rotas are garbage but hopefully somebody would have seen wheel hop on a balancer by now. definitely find a road force/runout balancer and a competent operator. Wheels and tires are tough, not a lot of shops know how to diagnose that stuff. If Discount/Americas tire co is in your area that'll be your best bet.
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Old 12-15-2010, 09:46 AM   #21
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Thanks guys, my tires definitely aren't cupping but I think I am going to have to get the shop that mounted them to check it all out after the holidays.
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Old 12-15-2010, 01:13 PM   #22
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mukilteo discount tire will NOT balance a wheel at zero. they said i would never feel a 1/4 oz off and i told him i wouldnt be there if i couldnt.

i watched them do the same to a full size spare. he stopped at 1/4. The manager didn't do anything.

yes, i will be filing a bbb complaint but the point is...the shop could be useless and not even zeroing them out to begin with. the machine could be out of whack.
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Old 12-16-2010, 01:01 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by contour se driver
mukilteo discount tire will NOT balance a wheel at zero. they said i would never feel a 1/4 oz off and i told him i wouldnt be there if i couldnt.

i watched them do the same to a full size spare. he stopped at 1/4. The manager didn't do anything.

yes, i will be filing a bbb complaint but the point is...the shop could be useless and not even zeroing them out to begin with. the machine could be out of whack.
True dat. Operator/shop makes all the difference.
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Old 12-16-2010, 01:14 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jweonline View Post
True dat. Operator/shop makes all the difference.

yeah. the previous crew at mukilteo DT did perfect balances. the crop now are useless. went 5 times in 2 weeks.

the kicker is...i have 1/8oz weights on my wheels.
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