Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday August 22, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
Click here to visit TireRack
Tire & Wheel Forum sponsored by The Tire Rack

Losing traction? Need new tires?
Click here to visit the NASIOC Upgrade Garage...
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Tire & Wheel

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-14-2010, 11:43 AM   #1
scbeck2
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 247429
Join Date: May 2010
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Vehicle:
2003 WRX
WRB

Default All Seasons question

So I need new tires, mine are pretty much shot. Just some background, I live in KY and we have pretty good road crews as far as snow goes. I see snow, but nothing super heavy. I don't have the means right now to have two sets of wheels, even though I'd prefer it, so I need a good set of all season tires. I have been doing some research and wanted to see if anyone had experience with the Yokohama AVID ENVigors? It has good reviews on Tirerack and seems to perform fairly well. I'm not really sure what size is best either, I have the stock wheels. I have read 205 is best for all seasons and then read lots of other views. Any info you all have would be great! Thanks!
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
scbeck2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2010, 12:13 PM   #2
GrimmSpeed
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 136396
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Vehicle:
2013 BRZ
SWP

Default

205/55/16 is the oem size for your 03 wrx; I'd try to stick to that if possible. As long as the reviews on Tire Rack are up to your standards and the price is right i say go for it. Tire Rack has a pretty good rating system and I've never felt deceived after purchasing based on their reviews.

Mike
GrimmSpeed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2010, 02:04 PM   #3
Krondor
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 187845
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Colorado
Vehicle:
2008 STi
DGM

Default

I would agree with Mike. Tire Rack for reviews and done. Pick the tires that fit your needs. Has worked well for me, except when I jump on used tire deals. Then it was more about price than performance...
Krondor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2010, 02:10 PM   #4
wtwwholesaletire
Vendor
 
Member#: 98066
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: chicago land
Vehicle:
2003 forester
white

Default

last time i was in KY it snowed and shut the area down for about 3 days this was the Lexington area very hilly area with tight curves fun to drive!Pproblem all season tires would be useless in these conditions i would recomend to you a all weather tire The WR G2, Nokian Tyres’ third generation in the unique line of “All-Weather Plus” tires, offers the best performance in every season. The asymmetrical inside-out tread pattern allows our engineers to design different areas of the tread to focus on the different driving conditions you will encounter throughout the year. So while seasons may change, your choice of all-weather tires remains the same: Nokian WR G2.


Ultimate Year Round Performance

The asymmetrical tread pattern gives Nokian WR G2 the diverse properties needed to be an outstanding tire in any driving conditions. The shape and siping of the outer shoulder make the tire easy to handle and stable to drive on all surfaces, even at high speeds, while the inner shoulder ensures superb grip in winter conditions. The tire’s center rib features new 3D siping for better handling and stability on wet and dry roads.

Nokian Tyres is also the pioneer in developing new solutions for safer driving in slush: its innovative slush wedge and polished grooves force heavy slush and water aside to prevent aquaplaning.
wtwwholesaletire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2010, 02:18 PM   #5
contour se driver
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 24874
Join Date: Sep 2002
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Mukilteo
Vehicle:
07 Legacy GT
faster paint scheme

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrimmSpeed View Post
205/55/16 is the oem size for your 03 wrx; I'd try to stick to that if possible. As long as the reviews on Tire Rack are up to your standards and the price is right i say go for it. Tire Rack has a pretty good rating system and I've never felt deceived after purchasing based on their reviews.

Mike
except no one mentions hydroplane resistance.

pilot sport a/s + is better at it then the re960 imo.
contour se driver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2010, 02:27 PM   #6
wtwwholesaletire
Vendor
 
Member#: 98066
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: chicago land
Vehicle:
2003 forester
white

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by contour se driver View Post
except no one mentions hydroplane resistance.

pilot sport a/s + is better at it then the re960 imo.
polished grooves force heavy slush and water aside to prevent aquaplaning.Nokian
wtwwholesaletire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2010, 04:06 PM   #7
contour se driver
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 24874
Join Date: Sep 2002
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Mukilteo
Vehicle:
07 Legacy GT
faster paint scheme

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wtwwholesaletire View Post
polished grooves force heavy slush and water aside to prevent aquaplaning.Nokian
"Tire Rack has a pretty good rating system and I've never felt deceived after purchasing based on their reviews"
contour se driver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2010, 07:38 PM   #8
vwbeaner
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 257959
Join Date: Sep 2010
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: North East Wisconsin
Vehicle:
2005 WRX
Black

Default

I have Nokian WR G2's on my 2001 Tahoe. They are by far the best tires I have ever owned. I also put a set on my girlfriends 2006 Passat. When it is time for tires for my WRX they will go on there too. They are a little pricey but they are good tires. I ordered mine from tiresavings.com. A distributer says I should get 50k on them if rotated properly.
vwbeaner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2010, 02:55 AM   #9
runtheeast
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 267177
Join Date: Dec 2010
Default

Tirerack is pretty good overall. Try Discount Tires too.
runtheeast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2010, 08:07 AM   #10
krzyss
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 8365
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Massachusetts
Vehicle:
2013 Ford Focus SE
Black

Default

wtwwholesaletire

So I did look at European tests of WR G2 and it always places in the second half of the performance winter contestants.
Its weak spot - wet road. It also does not shine in lateral snow traction.

Krzys
krzyss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2010, 05:50 PM   #11
wtwwholesaletire
Vendor
 
Member#: 98066
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: chicago land
Vehicle:
2003 forester
white

Default

Something tells me you have a personal vendetta against Nokian. The WRG2 has placed first in so many tests, including Consumer Reports U.S.A. Also, three of my co workers have been to their testing ground in Ivalo, Finland. They make the competition look silly in head to head testing. Nokian does not bash other tire manufacturers and post test results; they ride on their own merit.

Again, I will ask, have you drivin on the Nokian WRG2?
wtwwholesaletire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2010, 06:03 PM   #12
wtwwholesaletire
Vendor
 
Member#: 98066
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: chicago land
Vehicle:
2003 forester
white

Default

Home Nokian Hakkapeliita
Nokian Winter Tyres
Ivalo, Finland, is home to Nokian Tyre's year-round, state-of-the-art winter test facility. This 2,000 acre site, with 21 lakes and 10 miles of road, is located 186 miles north of the Arctic Circle in Finnish Lapland. Ivalo provides us with the opportunity to test our tires under the most severe winter weather conditions in the world.

Test drivers push our tires to the limit every day. Through high-tech tests, such as hill-climbing, polished/pure ice surface, slalom track, lateral traction on snow and ice, and braking, we come ever closer to our goal of producing the world's safest winter tire.

9.3 Mile Snow Handling Track
Subjective handling tests with front and rear driven cars.

Ice Tracks
For special demonstrations and an Arctic Driving School.

Hill Climbing Track Max 20
Timing with high speed in front and rear driven cars.

Snow Grip Testing
Special instrumented vehicle for testing lateral/longitudinal friction versus slip on hard-packed snow.

Lateral Ice Grip and Stability
300 meter ice circle, plus low and high speed circuits for subjective and timed handling tests on smooth and grooved ice surfaces.

Braking and Acceleration
Three 0.6 mile tracks with instrumented test cars for objective testing on varying surfaces.
Where are your tires tested?
wtwwholesaletire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2010, 07:06 PM   #13
krzyss
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 8365
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Massachusetts
Vehicle:
2013 Ford Focus SE
Black

Default

The only thing I have against Nokian is their pricing (in the USA).

When I was looking for winter tires for my 05 Legacy GT I was considering WR G2, however the prices for 225/45R17 were around $200.00 a piece and 205/50R17 at $180.00.

I went with Continental TS810 for roughly $170.00 in 225/45R17.
My first choice was Dunlop WS 3D in 205/50R17 for roughly $130.00 but they were out of stock.

Both TS810 and 3D get higher notes in European testing than WR G2.

It seems that Nokians strong tires are in studless ice and snow and studded genre like Hakkapeliitta R, Hakkapeliitta 5 or Hakkapeliitta 7. WR G2 is also run if treated as winter performance tire. It has all market for itself for all weather tire.

Krzys

PS Here are some results where Nokian WR G2 does decent, but not great, job:

http://www.adac.de/infotestrat/tests...cePageId=41873

http://www.adac.de/infotestrat/tests...cePageId=31821

http://www.auto-motor-i-sport.pl/tes...pon-10607.html

PS2 I have never done it before but you work hard to get on my ignore list. You just try too hard to sell.
krzyss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2010, 11:21 PM   #14
wtwwholesaletire
Vendor
 
Member#: 98066
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: chicago land
Vehicle:
2003 forester
white

Default

All i can say is whoever is pricing out the Nokians for you is selling much to high. Don't Ignore we are just starting to become friendsSeriously peace
wtwwholesaletire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2010, 07:46 PM   #15
LGT+WRX
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 91119
Join Date: Jul 2005
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Cleveland/Shaker Hts., Ohio
Vehicle:
05/9 LGT-me/FXT-wife
ABP-me/SSM-wifey

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wtwwholesaletire View Post
Something tells me you have a personal vendetta against Nokian. The WRG2 has placed first in so many tests, including Consumer Reports U.S.A. Also, three of my co workers have been to their testing ground in Ivalo, Finland. They make the competition look silly in head to head testing. Nokian does not bash other tire manufacturers and post test results; they ride on their own merit.

Again, I will ask, have you drivin on the Nokian WRG2?
There is no personal vendetta against Nokians - definitely not from krzyss, definitely not from me, definitely not from SubLGT. If you've done your homework, you'll know how many times, over the years, we've recommended the different varieties of Nokian winter tires, throughout various Subaru communities.

If you want to say that krzyss has a vendetta, then it's also fair turnabout to say that you are a Nokian "fanboy."

What we object to is how you're portraying the WRG2s as some sort of 8th Wonder of the World. A magical tire that somehow takes care of everyone's winter tire needs and offers wear that exceeds even "Live Longs."

The WRG2 is a very good tire - and for some people, for their very, very specific needs, they are a niche tire that can be said to be excellent for such restricted applications. A dear friend of mine in the DC area is a well-to-do attorney who came to me for advice because he didn't want to feel uncertain in the typical winter stuff they get there. He doesn't need all-out unstoppable winter capabilities: if things got bad enough, he'd just work from home - but he didn't want to have to white-knuckle his commutes anymore. At the same time, he just doesn't have the time to swap out to a winter set (yes, that even counts the time he'd just drop the car off at a shop; if you're one of his clients, you'd know how valuable his time can be ). So I tell him to get the WRG2, and make him swear that he checks his tires every year, before November 11 (easy date to remember), and that if the "6" no longer shows, that he'd immediately go get another set.

Yes, it's a wonderful tire - but it's not one that doesn't have faults. And that can be said of *any* and *every* tire that's on the market today. Modern technology just has not yet developed a tire that can do everything.

You and other Nokian keep insisting that the WRG2 has performed well in various of the highly respected European tests, but that is simply not true:

Quote:
Originally Posted by LGT+WRX View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by wtwwholesaletire View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SubLGT View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by wtwwholesaletire View Post
all weather tyres would be the best for you Nokian wrg2 or the Vredestein quadtrac 3 the best of both worlds full out snow and ice traction no compromise on performance and you can run them year round aprox 50k millage much more in some cases
No such thing as a "no compromise on performance" tire. All-Weather tires such as the WRG2 and the Quadtrac have performance compromises, as do all seasons, and summer tires, and studded tires, etc. All-Weather tires do not have "full out snow and ice traction".
The Nokian WRG2 came in first place in the snow tire testing.And a question for you have you ever drivin the WR?

I will agree the Quad 3 has it's limitations.
...and later....

Quote:
Originally Posted by wtwwholesaletire View Post
Consumer report.Nokian also dominated the euro testing.
If you are speaking of the WRG2, that's definitely not the case:

2010 and 2009 ADAC - perhaps the most highly regarded of the European "Performance Winter"/"Continental" tire tests - of the H-rated tires, it's second tier. Far from "dominating."

2010 Auto Bilde, the WRG2 was dead last of the 5 tires tested

2010 AMS slots the Pirelli SottoZero Serie II, Vredestein Quatrac3, and Nokian tires into virtually the same tier. Again, not a dominating finish, by any means.

The 2010 Auto Express results closely correlates with those seen in the 2010 AMS, with the WRG2 a bottom-tier finisher.

2010 Auto Zeitung - a top-third finish, but far from dominating, with three other tires deemed "better overall."

Dominating the European tests? Hardly.

Oh, and before you flame again, you should search up how many times SubLGT - as well as myself - have recommended Nokian tires, including the WR and WRG2, not only in this community, but also others.

Oh, and as for this year's Consumer Reports testing?

You do know that they rank "snow traction" only in terms of acceleration, right? no turns, no braking?

The truth of the matter is that this year in particular, to say that the CR data has been controversial is an understatement, particularly as it seems that virtually none of the respected European sources' data really jibes with it. That's a rather big can-of-worms to open (possible market-related differences in tire composition? the difference between V and H rated? as-tested? why does CR so steadfastly refuse to open their books, to let enthusiasts/hobbyists see the raw quantified data?).
As with krzyss and others, I simply lust after a set of studded Hakka 7s - and those who know me know that I was literally "this close" to getting a set, when I backed down due to some potential expenses that I was then trying to make sure I had the bank for. Instead, I chose a set of studded Pirellis: not "king of the hill" like the Hakka 7s, but for what I need, they'll do, and they saved me a bunch of money, too.

Nokian has positioned itself here in North America as a maker of ultrapremium winter tires: and historically, the performance of the Hakka line (both studded and friction tires) have cemented this marketing as a true solid. The Hakka R has typically been (and continues to be) very highly thought of in its sub-genre, and the Hakka 5 and Hakka 7 have both also been kings of their domain, in their respective times.

But the WRG2, as compared to other "Performance Winters," which is what most reviews lump them under...it has not fared nearly as well, so your sales tactic in trying to impress, with such citations, comes back as falsehoods which are not supported by the actual test records.

Now, the WRG2s, in terms of being the leading "All Weather" tire - that's a different story: that's something that no-one can contest, although the simple fact that its competition is so few in numbers is, itself, a point that cannot be overlooked.
LGT+WRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2010, 08:09 PM   #16
krzyss
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 8365
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Massachusetts
Vehicle:
2013 Ford Focus SE
Black

Default

Thanks for support.

:-)

Krzys
krzyss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2010, 08:12 PM   #17
LGT+WRX
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 91119
Join Date: Jul 2005
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Cleveland/Shaker Hts., Ohio
Vehicle:
05/9 LGT-me/FXT-wife
ABP-me/SSM-wifey

Default

^ No thanks needed - I just call it as I see it.

The facts are what they are, and anyone willing to look into it for more than 5 minutes can well see for themselves by visiting the cited primary sources, without having to trust any of us.
LGT+WRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2010, 09:56 PM   #18
wtwwholesaletire
Vendor
 
Member#: 98066
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: chicago land
Vehicle:
2003 forester
white

Default

Guys i injoy talking shop and i value your experience.

i am very passionate with cars,sports,life,food and tires!

There are so many tests out there its hard to know what to believe.

I have seen Nokians test results that they do in Ivalo.I hope that they will let me share.

I honestly hope i can help some members with there tire and wheel questions and find some friends along the way.Perhaps i did come on a bit strong and for that i am sorry.
wtwwholesaletire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2010, 10:36 PM   #19
LGT+WRX
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 91119
Join Date: Jul 2005
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Cleveland/Shaker Hts., Ohio
Vehicle:
05/9 LGT-me/FXT-wife
ABP-me/SSM-wifey

Default

It's not about coming on strongly - I respect a hard sell, as that's an art (as-is bargaining)....maybe my childhood culture speaking, I dunno. I also apologize if I've offended you, for that's definitely not my aim :redface:, rather, I'm simply here to offer up what little I know, to share it with the people who have, in-turn, helped me with what I've needed.

I want us enthusiasts and hobbyists to buy tires based on what the data shows: not by more visceral or subjective "feelings," as someone from Continental's marketing tree once said we Americans and our Canadian brothers/sisters are prone to do. Whether he'd meant it or not, I took that to be very insulting - implying that perhaps we didn't know any better.

If you want a frank assessment, I think that the problem is that you're perhaps trying too hard. You're painting the tires (the WRG2s) to be something that they are not, and that's somewhat disconcerting, given that Nokians practically sell themselves here in the States, what with the reputation they've garnered in terms of winter tires, and even despite their pricing.

The WRG2 is a wonderful tire, but its purpose truly is very mission-specific and mission-limited. The simple fact that it does not score well when compared against "Performance Winters" only underscores that fact. So, no, it's not a magical tire, but in so far as a true "All-Season" tire goes, it's currently one choice among only a true handful, and what's more, is sometimes seen as being significantly better than those few competitors.

As I've said elsewhere, come at me strong, with both barrels full of facts, and I'll gladly pull out my wallet. I enjoy a salesperson who knows his or her craft. I have nothing but respect for that.

But the first time I smell that they're trying to pull the wool over my eye? To me, that's like smelling blood in the water. My fangs come out.

Last edited by LGT+WRX; 12-17-2010 at 10:44 PM.
LGT+WRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2010, 11:33 PM   #20
Mike Wevrick
RIP 1/19/64 - 7/23/11
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 24654
Join Date: Sep 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: saraseager.com
Vehicle:
1957 Taggart Comet
atlasshruggedpart1.com

Default

^^Talk about a mixed metaphor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by scbeck2 View Post
I have been doing some research and wanted to see if anyone had experience with the Yokohama AVID ENVigors? It has good reviews on Tirerack and seems to perform fairly well. I'm not really sure what size is best either, I have the stock wheels.
That tire doesn't seem to come in any 16" sizes.

The UHPAS tire with the best snow ratings (and also best overall) that comes in OEM size seems to be the Continental ExtremeContact DWS according to Tire Rack's surveys.
Mike Wevrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2010, 10:00 AM   #21
LGT+WRX
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 91119
Join Date: Jul 2005
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Cleveland/Shaker Hts., Ohio
Vehicle:
05/9 LGT-me/FXT-wife
ABP-me/SSM-wifey

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Wevrick View Post
^^Talk about a mixed metaphor!
I know. I keep telling people that if my grade-school English teacher ever saw anything I've written online, she'd strangle me for mis-representation!

I'll pull the ESL excuse out for you, then, Mike. It's badly constructed because I didn't know a single word of English until I was 9.
LGT+WRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2010, 11:03 AM   #22
Mike Wevrick
RIP 1/19/64 - 7/23/11
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 24654
Join Date: Sep 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: saraseager.com
Vehicle:
1957 Taggart Comet
atlasshruggedpart1.com

Default

Your grammar is fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wikipedia
A mixed metaphor is one that leaps from one identification to a second identification inconsistent with the first. Example: "If we can hit that bullseye then the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards... Checkmate." Quote from Futurama TV show character Zapp Brannigan.[6]
Mike Wevrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
WTB: Winter wheels/ or All season tires on wheels, or just all season tires! Robstunner MWSOC Private Classifieds 0 10-29-2009 11:42 AM
Stock All season question wawawrx Newbies & FAQs 5 03-10-2009 12:40 PM
WTT: 15" Steels with All seasons for 16" All seasons Chapel NESIC Private Classifieds 1 12-03-2006 05:14 PM
more tire for all-seasons questions anerd Brakes, Steering & Suspension 2 01-08-2002 10:04 AM
all season tires question-=) jigcrates General Forum Archive 4 12-31-2000 09:45 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.