Top Mount Oil Cooler & A/C Condenser?

[WReXd]

In order to save room at the front of the car for the radiator and intercooler (doing a v-mount), I decided to mount my oil cooler and A/C condenser (aftermarket, of course) underneath the hood scoop. What I need to know is:

1. How long do the oil cooler lines need to be? (I'd measure myself but my block's being rebuilt)
2. What dimensional characteristics should the A/C condenser have? (i.e. frontal surface area, thickness, etc.)
3. Does anyone make dual air-liquid coolers (literally 2 coolers w/ independent paths welded to be one piece)? A radiator w/ built in oil cooler (for example) would be great.

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[sorrowfulkiller]

uh, do you're own homework with the oil lines, buy more than you need.

As for the dual heat exchanger idea just look them up on google, quite a few people make them.

[OrbitalEllipses]

I recall LiC Motorsports had a dual heat exchanger on their track Subaru. Talk to them, see what's up.

[WReXd]

Thanks for the lead. I didn't know what to search for the dual heat exchanger because I didn't know what it was called.

For the top mount oil cooler I was hoping someone with a B-line or something would chime in. I don't mind buying a little extra, but I'm really clueless and don't want 5 feet left over or anything like that.

As for the A/C condenser I just want to know whether or not I can use a regular oil cooler. I figured I don't really care if the A/C is ice cold as long as it can bring the cabin temps down to the 80s during hot summer days.

[KillerBMotorsport]

You're going to need a fan on the A/C coil/condenser. You can go a little smaller with the A/C since it's a fairly small car, but no fan, smaller size and decreased airflow (with an oil cooler in front of it), I'd wager you're going to see a significant drop in A/C performance.

[WReXd]

Yeah, I expect a drop in A/C performance. As-is I never turn up the A/C to max anyway. I do, however, want to minimize the decrease in performance.

Both coolers will be mounted side-by-side. I was hoping to use two of these:
http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/p...ol_Oil_Coolers

They're 11" long each. Most aftermarket TMICs are ~20" long, so I figured the hood scoop should be long enough to feed both coolers side-by-side. No need to put one in front of the other.

[KillerBMotorsport]

You going with a coil that has less than half the capacity and worse flow through... plus you're probably not going to run a fan on it (since the scoop only works when the car is moving)? I would like to update my previous statement and wager you have horrible A/C performance.

But here are my questions... With running such an A/C setup, why have one at all? AND... do you you need an oil cooler? If your climate is not hot enough to run A/C and you're not a 100+ hp over stock, you likely don't need one.

If you must have one I HIGHLY recommend using a thermostat with it to prevent overcooling the oil, and allowing it to come up to temperature faster.

If you're going to move forward with this, take a really close look at the specs on the coil to use for A/C. It may have a good enough pressure rating, but it may not be able to withstand the temperature swings. Just something to check before you buy.

[WReXd]

I admit I don't think I need an oil cooler. But I spun a bearing and figured I'd rather buy an aftermarket oil cooler than another stock one. I priced out the cost of everything and thanks to some hook-ups, even with a mocal thermostat it'll be almost exactly the same price.

I don't mind running a fan on the condenser. I think it would still be beneficial even if it's sitting under the hood scoop. I also don't mind buying a larger core; I just want to know how small of a cooler I can buy without rendering the A/C system completely useless. If there's no way around it, then I'll just suck it up and get rid of the A/C. I only use it ~5% of the time anyway. But of course I don't want to do it unless I'm confident it's the best solution.

[Web Foot STi]

I don't think a plate type oil cooler less than 1/4 the size of a R134a condenser is going to work very well. The oil cooler is designed to work with a semi viscose liquid. The condenser, hopefully, takes a gas and chills it into the liquid state. My car also has an integral dryer which the oil cooler does not have.

http://www.carpartswholesale.com/v5/...Listing+Page:3

http://www.carpartswholesale.com/v5/...ref=partfinder

While they are both heat exchangers, they are very different in their design parameters.


I do like the idea of a top mounted oil cooler if you have a FMIC. You do want an oil thermostat on the supply line so that the engine can heat up reasonably fast. To avoid heat soak when stopped you will want a fan on the core to keep the hot air from rising up from the turbo, or a good chimney/heat shield to keep the engine air away from the cooler as it goes up.

With a remote oil cooler you want at least the outlet up so the core can self burp and not develop an air pocket. For the amount of hose, only you can chose the routing. Every instillation is a little different. Avoid 90+ degree hose ends like the plague and if you have to use one it should a tube type and not forged. You want to minimize pressure drop.

Have fun with your project.

[sharkmonkey]

It's an interesting idea, I just don't know if I'd do it because you have to take the TMIC out to service ANYTHING back there and an oil/AC heat exchanger is a pretty permanent type of install. I don't know how you'd deal with that. You could probably quick disconnect the oil lines, but not the A/C lines.

[arco]

Originally Posted by sharkmonkey

It's an interesting idea, I just don't know if I'd do it because you have to take the TMIC out to service ANYTHING back there and an oil/AC heat exchanger is a pretty permanent type of install. I don't know how you'd deal with that. You could probably quick disconnect the oil lines, but not the A/C lines.

But the OP is not using a TMIC, it was explicitly mentioned in the original post and also by a few others in the responses. He is running a V-mount intercooler setup. It's a modified front mount intercooler and radiator setup.

[arco]

Both Wrexd and I have are working on our v-mounts at the moment. I'm also wondering what alternative condensers are possible. I hear that muscle cars use small aftermarket condensers but I have no leads further than that. I use my AC rather often and would like to keep it running at decent performance. Hopefully that's a possibility.

[Web Foot STi]

I think sharkmonkey is referring to the fact that there is a different type heat exchanger in the space where the OEM air/air unit was. Air/oil, and/or air/Freon. these components have to be moved to gain access to the back top of the engine and tranny. If you are smart with your line routing you should be able to "flip" the heat exchangers to the side without breaking any fluid connections. Oil is a little messy even if you cap the ends real fast, but you can live with it. For the Freon lines I would make damb sure that the condenser could be moved over without cracking the system open. ( Not that I'm a greeny about ozone protection. but that Freon is expensive and evacuating the system is a pain...)

[WReXd]

Yeah... sharkmonkey kind of threw me off by saying "TMIC" but I got what he meant. It's an excellent point, I don't know why I didn't think about that. The oil cooler should be no problem. Both lines will be coming from the same place, so the cooler can simply be lifted and placed near the passenger's side fender. The A/C lines come from pretty much opposite directions, so I won't be able to move it out of the way easily unless I use super long lines. I guess I have no choice but to mount the condenser near the intercooler and radiator.

[arco]

lol. that one caught me off guard then. oh well. i'm definitely not the sharpest one on nasioc in the morning.

Wrexd, I'll be looking into some of muscle car threads in a little to see if we can find our answer there.