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Old 12-22-2010, 02:05 PM   #1
mmiller2002
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Default 225 or 215 on '01 RS wheels for HPDEs?

If i was to get some '01 RS wheels (16x7) for HPDEs on my '02 WRX wagon, what are the tire sizes that yield benefits in acceleration while maintaining adequate grip and braking?

225 or 215 width?
40 or 45 ratio?

Tire choices seem limited, though.

Thanks for any advice.
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Old 12-22-2010, 02:27 PM   #2
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What tires do you have in mind?

My vote would be for 225 45 or 50 (OE diameter) if they are relatively stiff tires. 40 is getting pretty short. While you gain some advantage shortening the gearing, you really want to stay out of 5th in the car as much as possible.
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Old 12-22-2010, 02:35 PM   #3
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yes 2254517 best bet
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Old 12-22-2010, 02:40 PM   #4
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225 45.
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Old 12-22-2010, 03:40 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by REX8 View Post
What tires do you have in mind?

My vote would be for 225 45 or 50 (OE diameter) if they are relatively stiff tires. 40 is getting pretty short. While you gain some advantage shortening the gearing, you really want to stay out of 5th in the car as much as possible.
Thanks for the response. That 225 will work well on 7" wheel? tirerack shows that as the minimum width for the tire choices.

Good question on tire models. At least from tirerack, there's not much available in 225/45-16 summer tires, and I can't afford competition tires just for a few HPDEs a year. I'll check elsewhere also.

The track I use does not have long straights, so maybe a shorter tire (40 series) could work? In the past, with my experience, i have not exceeded 90mph in my WRX.
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Old 12-22-2010, 04:35 PM   #6
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Thanks for the response. That 225 will work well on 7" wheel? tirerack shows that as the minimum width for the tire choices.

Good question on tire models. At least from tirerack, there's not much available in 225/45-16 summer tires, and I can't afford competition tires just for a few HPDEs a year. I'll check elsewhere also.

The track I use does not have long straights, so maybe a shorter tire (40 series) could work? In the past, with my experience, i have not exceeded 90mph in my WRX.
A stiff 225 (most max performance summers) will feel fine on a 7" wheel. If its a bit softer tire, it might feel a bit sloppy. So you'll need to decide if you're looking for maximum grip, or sharper handling.

Must be a small track if you're only hitting 90. If that's the case, maybe even go BIGGER , and allow yourself to stay in 3rd (not sure if the stock sized tires gets to 90 in 3rd, I'd have to check).

I'd be inclined to run 225/50 of 45s are hard to come buy.
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Old 12-22-2010, 08:55 PM   #7
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yup... i ran a few years on 225-50-16 on my 99rs (16x7 OE wheels / same spec as 01rs wheels) for track / autox... but it was a tight fit (between fender/strut)... on your wagon should be fine...

only prob is 16" race tires are starting to get limited. but decent selection in 225-50-16.
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Old 12-25-2010, 03:31 PM   #8
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how did the extra sidewall feel robin/rex8?
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Old 12-28-2010, 08:17 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by REX8 View Post
A stiff 225 (most max performance summers) will feel fine on a 7" wheel. If its a bit softer tire, it might feel a bit sloppy. So you'll need to decide if you're looking for maximum grip, or sharper handling.

Must be a small track if you're only hitting 90. If that's the case, maybe even go BIGGER , and allow yourself to stay in 3rd (not sure if the stock sized tires gets to 90 in 3rd, I'd have to check).

I'd be inclined to run 225/50 of 45s are hard to come buy.
Since these will be for HPDE, not DD, I'm really tempted to get the wheels and try a 225/45 or even 40 (?) if I can find a reasonable price. I'd like to see if I can feel the difference in acceleration before I go to any power mods for acceleration. Top speed isn't of much interest to me right now at my experience level.

Thanks for the tips.
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Old 12-28-2010, 10:40 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmiller2002 View Post
Since these will be for HPDE, not DD, I'm really tempted to get the wheels and try a 225/45 or even 40 (?) if I can find a reasonable price. I'd like to see if I can feel the difference in acceleration before I go to any power mods for acceleration. Top speed isn't of much interest to me right now at my experience level.

Thanks for the tips.
I recommended maybe even going bigger if it meant being able to, for example, stay in 3rd throughout the lap instead of forcing a shift to 4th. That time saved could easily outweigh the marginal acceleration benefits.

Again, that was simply because you mentioned a 90 mph top speed.

If it's not going to increase your number of shifts/lap going to a 40 or a 45, by all means, go for it.
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Old 12-28-2010, 01:11 PM   #11
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hmm, thanks. part of the track does require 2nd, but I've done it without going to 4th and occasionally hit the rev limiter in my earlier sessions. With my current heavy 17x7.5 and 225/45-17 tires i have been using all 3 gears as I've gained experience.
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Old 12-29-2010, 11:16 AM   #12
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with 7.5's i'd go 235/45.
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Old 12-29-2010, 01:53 PM   #13
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Quote:
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with 7.5's i'd go 235/45.
I have a wagon. For dd the 225/45-17 fit well and keep the speedo accurate.
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Old 12-29-2010, 02:20 PM   #14
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235-40-17 is a tad smaller ratio.... compared to 225-45-17 but not sure if it will rub on rear of the wagon.
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Old 12-30-2010, 08:52 AM   #15
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What I'm finding in 16" 225/45 and 215/45 are as follows:

225/45-16: BFG KDW and Yokohama ES100, Kumho SPT
215/45-16: Kumho XS and Falken RT-615

What's the best out of these?

I've had the Kumho XS on my heavy 17x7.5" wheels for 3-4 track days for the last 2 years, one day was wet. They seemed acceptable for my experience level. Any of the other tires better?

Thanks for the help.
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Old 12-30-2010, 09:10 AM   #16
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Quote:
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235-40-17 is a tad smaller ratio.... compared to 225-45-17 but not sure if it will rub on rear of the wagon.
this is about autox not about daily driving
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Old 12-30-2010, 09:24 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmiller2002 View Post
What I'm finding in 16" 225/45 and 215/45 are as follows:

225/45-16: BFG KDW and Yokohama ES100, Kumho SPT
215/45-16: Kumho XS and Falken RT-615

What's the best out of these?

I've had the Kumho XS on my heavy 17x7.5" wheels for 3-4 track days for the last 2 years, one day was wet. They seemed acceptable for my experience level. Any of the other tires better?

Thanks for the help.
Did you drive XS in wet?
Were they as bad as Car&Driver claims?

Krzys
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Old 12-30-2010, 11:29 PM   #18
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Did you drive XS in wet?
Were they as bad as Car&Driver claims?

Krzys
I did, but I didn't have anything to compare it to. It was my first wet day. It was a bit unnerving the first session of the day, but by the 3rd session, i was looking forward to it, and by the 6th, i was wishing for more. I would like it again.
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Old 12-31-2010, 11:08 AM   #19
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OK, so no replies.

Is this tire selection, for HPDE use, a "lesser of evils group?"

If I don't want to go 50 series, should I just pass and keep looking for light 17's and use 40-series?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmiller2002 View Post
What I'm finding in 16" 225/45 and 215/45 are as follows:

225/45-16: BFG KDW and Yokohama ES100, Kumho SPT
215/45-16: Kumho XS and Falken RT-615

What's the best out of these?

I've had the Kumho XS on my heavy 17x7.5" wheels for 3-4 track days for the last 2 years, one day was wet. They seemed acceptable for my experience level. Any of the other tires better?

Thanks for the help.
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Old 01-03-2011, 08:03 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmiller2002 View Post
I did, but I didn't have anything to compare it to. It was my first wet day. It was a bit unnerving the first session of the day, but by the 3rd session, i was looking forward to it, and by the 6th, i was wishing for more. I would like it again.
The 215 XS or 615 is going to be faster than the 225s you mentioned.

Still don't know why you are adverse to a 50 series. The gearing difference is very slight, not something you're really going to notice, nor something that is going to make a real impact on your times.

Going to a 17" wheel, along with the associated weight and moment of inertia increase will completely offset any slight gearing advantage.

You're over thinking this for sure.
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Old 01-03-2011, 08:49 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REX8 View Post
The 215 XS or 615 is going to be faster than the 225s you mentioned.

Still don't know why you are adverse to a 50 series. The gearing difference is very slight, not something you're really going to notice, nor something that is going to make a real impact on your times.

Going to a 17" wheel, along with the associated weight and moment of inertia increase will completely offset any slight gearing advantage.

You're over thinking this for sure.
Yeah, overthinking a bit for sure, but I just wanted to experiment with the shortest practical size. Thanks for the candid, helpful comments!

PS - I did pick up the 16" '01 RS wheels, so I'll be getting something in a 16" tire for sure.

Oh, and the 225/50-16 would put the tire sidewall about .2" closer to the strut than a 215/45 with the RS wheels at ET53. And I haven't seen any 215/50-16 tires for the track.

Last edited by mmiller2002; 01-03-2011 at 05:16 PM.
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Old 01-04-2011, 03:23 PM   #22
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go as wide as you can with as low a profile as you can. it's that simple.

225/45 is what you want. if the wheels were wider like my 7.5's i'd say to run a 245/45, which i'm doing.
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Old 02-11-2011, 02:18 PM   #23
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I see that the Toyo R1R comes in 225/45-16. I've seen good reviews in my brief search today. Comments on this tire?
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Old 03-03-2011, 01:53 PM   #24
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Thanks for all the comments and advice. With some consult with tirerack, I ended up ordering 215/45-16 Kumho XSs yesterday.

This will be my experiment to see if I can feel the difference a 5+% shorter and several pounds lighter per wheel setup makes.
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Old 03-03-2011, 05:04 PM   #25
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Quote:
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Thanks for all the comments and advice. With some consult with tirerack, I ended up ordering 215/45-16 Kumho XSs yesterday.

This will be my experiment to see if I can feel the difference a 5+% shorter and several pounds lighter per wheel setup makes.
great choice, me thinks
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