Another 02 wrx-ej257 hybrid!

[SubiBug]

Hey all,

After recently spinning a rod bearing, I have decided to do a complete overhaul of my subi. I have a 2002 WRX and I am putting in a new EJ257 shortblock, and the heads/down pipe/exhaust from an '04 STI (craigslist FTW).

I had a question about injectors: what size should I get? I have been told that because I need to retune the engine, I should get 600cc+ injectors. Is there any validity to this? What are the pros/cons of getting bigger injectors? I'm not really sure what it means aside from higher flow.

I can post a parts list and I will post pictures as I go through the process.

Thanks!

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[hobbesnapoli]

Well if you're using EJ257 heads you have more important things to worry about. Nevertheless- you may as well go with STI (565cc) or larger (650cc) injectors. If you're planning on vf39 with pump gas then 550-650s should be perfect.

[SubiBug]

Originally Posted by hobbesnapoli

Well if you're using EJ257 heads you have more important things to worry about.

Such as??


Here is my part list so far:

EJ257 Engine
Master Rebuild Kit from Flatirons Tuning

All gaskets to reseal engine
Head gasket
OEM Thermostat
OEM water pump
OEM Timing belt Tensioner
Cosworth Kevlar Timing Belt
11mm Oil pump

Cosworth Billet Cam Angle Sensor Bracket
STI Injectors (650cc??)
OEM 2.5L Heads/Down Pipe/Exhaust from an 04 STI

I tried to get most of my parts from Flat Irons Tuning, they seem to know their stuff and I was hoping to get a deal with buying it all from one place.

So far the parts look like they'll be just under $3,500

[AWDWRXLOVER]

STi head+STi block= STi longblock

[SubiBug]

Originally Posted by AWDWRXLOVER

STi head+STi block= STi longblock

Yes, I know this. I purchased the short block separately. The heads are off of craigslist, the block is new. Which is why I differentiated. I am also keeping the stock turbo, and don't intend to have AVCS.

I know that I also need to handle engine management. Any suggestions?

[mulva]

Originally Posted by SubiBug

Yes, I know this. I purchased the short block separately. The heads are off of craigslist, the block is new. Which is why I differentiated. I am also keeping the stock turbo, and don't intend to have AVCS.

I know that I also need to handle engine management. Any suggestions?

I'm going down the same road right now having just picked up a pair of 2005 STi heads to mate with my 2.5L built block. My tuner recommended Hydra for EM and after researching its capabilities, I've decided that is what I'm going with. It's never a bad idea to ask your tuner for EM advice . Probably start there.

Good luck with your build!

-Tom

[SubiBug]

Thanks Tom. The best advice is usually also the most obvious (and overlooked)!

[FuJi K]

you best make sure them can journals be clean. That's the first thing I look at when looking at cylinder heads.

Engine management will depend on what you are using your car for. If you aint gon be drag racing or all that then them features on them standalones will just sit until you use them. You go with them standalones when there are features that you need for what you plan on doing with your car. A small Vf39 setup don't need no AEM or HYDRA. What more power are you gon get?

[SubiBug]

I'm perfectly happy with the 300hp range. I don't need to go crazy with this, I'd like it to be a reliable car. It is my daily driver. I also have the stock wrx tranny in there, so I would like to avoid blowing it out.

[AWDWRXLOVER]

smog is also something to keep in mind when choosing em on daily driver

[mulva]

Just to clarify, I'm not implying that Hydra is the answer for you. It works for my situation and goals. I think you should start with your tuner and see if that recommendation suits you and your goals.
-Tom

[SubiBug]

So I decided to change things up a bit. I'm not getting the heads & exhaust, and will run a true hybrid. I just made the purchase from Flat Iron Works Tuning (www.flatironworkstuning.com) they were very knowledgeable and helpful. So far I would recommend them to anyone, but I will have to update that once the parts arrive. Here is what I ordered with prices, for anyone looking to do this same setup:

My car is currently a completely stock 2002 WRX (usdm, I don't know if that is implied)

2009+ EJ257 shortblock $1870.00
Deatshwerks 650 Injectors $379.00
Master 2.5L Hybrid swap install kit $1,010.80
INCLUDES:

All gaskets to reseal engine
Cosworth 1.5mm Head gasket (to keep compression ratio down)
OEM Thermostat
OEM water pump
OEM Timing belt Tensioner
Cosworth Kevlar Timing Belt
New 11mm Oil pump from the '09 STI

I also ordered a new clutch/flywheel/pressure plate, but that doesn't really have anything to do with the swap

Once the parts arrive I will be putting them in, and I will be sure to post pictures and such. So far my total build cost (including labor, tuning, and a couple of hours at the dyno) is $4990.94

I expect to be pushing something in the ballpark of 330hp. We will see soon enough!

Thanks everyone for the replies, the advice was helpful

[slowmike]

I opted to open up the combustion chambers on the 2.0 heads to 57cc so that I can run OE head gaskets. I also used an 06 STI oil pump and got rid of the oil cooler/heater to give a little bump in oil pressure, if you want to keep the oil cooler, you'd better get a new one. Good time to think about cams, bigger turbo and injectors if you got the budget for it. The tune will be the most important ingredient in your new sauce.

[mulva]

New plan sounds fun. My hybrid hit 275 whp and 310 tq with a vf43/sti pinks/sti tmic on a dynojet at 18psi. Tq hits hard around 3000 RPM and power starts falling off around 5500 RPM. It's great around town and at autocross. To hit 330 whp I think you'll need a 20G and a good tune.

-Tom

[SubiBug]

Thanks for the tips. I have had others recommend that I get cams too. I guess I'll need to look into that more, but I doubt I can afford them right now. Another concern I have is pre-ignition from the heads getting too hot. Has anyone had trouble with this? I planned on just using the thicker head gasket to bring the compression down, but now I am considering getting the heads machined to match the block. Maybe both? Machining wont actually affect the compression ratio, right? Unless I bore them too? I'm not entire sure how this all works!

I am getting a tune from a highly recommended guy here in town, hopefully he does a good job!

@slowmike:
What should I get a new of to keep oil cool? Is that a big issue with this kind of swap? I haven't heard/read anything about it before..

@tom:
My next upgrade will definitely be a turbo, but I'm not getting it until I can afford to replace the transmission too. I'm afraid that if I keep pushing the car that tranny is going to end up on the road half way through a turn or something. I know 330 is optimistic, but I figure with a good tune I can at least get within that ballpark. Did you tune yours? What compression are you running?


EDIT: I just reread what slowmike posted. I'm guessing that "opening up the combustion chambers" is what I was referring to with machining the heads?

[subymn15]

when i did the swap i put PE650cc injectors on my built ej257 motor bc of the turbo i put on it... but if your not changing the sti turbo then you dont have to change the injectors although its really worth it!!!

[SubiBug]

Originally Posted by subymn15

when i did the swap i put PE650cc injectors on my built ej257 motor bc of the turbo i put on it... but if your not changing the sti turbo then you dont have to change the injectors although its really worth it!!!

Yeah I got 650s with upgrading in mind. I wont need them now, but they will allow me to get up to ~350hp if I choose to down the road.

[mulva]

Originally Posted by SubiBug

@tom:
My next upgrade will definitely be a turbo, but I'm not getting it until I can afford to replace the transmission too. I'm afraid that if I keep pushing the car that tranny is going to end up on the road half way through a turn or something. I know 330 is optimistic, but I figure with a good tune I can at least get within that ballpark. Did you tune yours? What compression are you running?

I didn't do anything to lower compression which is part of the reason why my powerband is what it is. A 2.5 with stock 205 heads/cams and a VF series turbo will give you a super responsive torquey engine that runs out of steam at higher RPM's. It was tuned (there are several great Subaru tuners within a couple hours). The car has been tracked and autocrossed a lot and so far so good.

I think the CNC head service from Equilibrium, OEM head gaskets, and some plugged STi cams might be a good idea if it's in the budget and you can handle the downtime. That would give you the most flexibility when you decide what kind of power you want and also where you want to make that power.

-Tom

[subvu]

So how did the build turn out?, Im planning on doing a very similar one this month

[SubiBug]

It went well!! I can post pictures if you guys want, I have about a million, so I'll have to sort through them. My final build:

2009 STI short block (EJ257)

http://www.flatironstuning.com/p-1978-2009-sti-ej257-shortblock-with-nitride-treated-crankshaft.aspx

Exedy Clutch, Flywheel, Pressure Plate
Master rebuild kit from flatironstuning.com

http://www.flatironstuning.com/p-1899-master-25l-hybrid-swap-install-kit.aspx

Deatschwerks 650cc Injectors

http://www.flatironstuning.com/p-1659-deatschwerks-injectors-565cc-1000cc.aspx

New up-pipe (definitely a worthwhile swap while you have the engine out anyways)
Various nuts, bolts and belts to replace what broke on removal

I didn't buy any EM options, but merely flashed my stock ECU and had a guy tune it. The tune turned out great. The build also turned out great, although I've had a pesky coolant leak that I'm still locating

I desperately need a transmission, but other than that the car is running very well.
Let me know if you have questions about the build!

[subvu]

As far as tunning did you have to get it tuned right away or did you wait till it broke in then tuned it?
Thanks.

[SubiBug]

I broke it in then tuned it. It's still having a timing issue, it needs to be retuned. I'd recommend dyno tuning it for the full throttle range, then have your tuner take it out on the road so you can test it out.

[FuJi K]

if anything you should have simply opened up the sides of the combustion chamber by hand and CC it. Very simple, yet must be careful and patient. This would drop you compression as well by doing this because you're taking material out of the head.

oh well... timing is the pesky deal with untouched 2.0L heads on the 2.5 bore.