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Old 01-12-2011, 04:14 PM   #151
PERRINJeff
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Before i pull the turbo off, i plan to do some road pulls in 2nd 2000 to redline, then 3rd 2000 to redline, then 4th same thing. I think that along with dyno data will give everyone a good base to judge these from. It also will make it somewhat comparable from car to car and run to run. Since most people seem to post up their road tuning/datalogs, its valuable that we provide the same. I will get on this as soon as the weather is at least above freezing.
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Old 01-12-2011, 04:30 PM   #152
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Perrin Jeff,
Will the GTX 3076 make the same sound as the older one, or will the new blades deaden that sound?
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Old 01-12-2011, 04:36 PM   #153
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from jeffs posts with all the data

Quote:
Originally Posted by PERRINJeff View Post
One of the features Garret proclaims is quieter operation. After my first minute driving the car, i would absolutley agree! Its about half as loud as the old one. There is no way cops will here your turbo screaming from a couple blocks away!
and my customer commented that he didnt notice a difference in noise.....but his car had been down for a long time.

But when considering noise the whole setup from intake location (engine bay or fender well), to int or ext wg, stereo, cats, resonators, exhaust type, etc....will all factor into one persons description of the noise.
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Old 01-12-2011, 06:29 PM   #154
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Noise levels are reduced with the GTX turbos. Ive heard them in person several times and the difference noticeable.
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Old 01-20-2011, 08:42 PM   #155
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Been a while, any new updates on the testing?
Great work on the comparison though.
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Old 01-20-2011, 09:22 PM   #156
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Funny you should ask. .....
Gtx3582r is 20min away from being installed! Dyno results next week!
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Old 01-21-2011, 01:44 AM   #157
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nice one! look forward to the results....
btw: the whole world is watching and waiting!
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Old 01-21-2011, 10:37 AM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nisstrust
nice one! look forward to the results....
btw: the whole world is watching and waiting!
Oh great! Now your making me nervous! Everyone is watching me!

So initial thoughts are the GTX3582r is it sounds weird. There I this strange hollow sound from the intake now. Since these turbos still have no compressor housing o-ring, I am going to pressure test the system from the intake forward. So dumb that there is no o-ring.

Response is good maybe 200 rpm slower spooling. The response while turbo is spooling is not as good as the gtx3076r but once it hits it feels like more power. My AFRs indicate this also. It went from .80 lambda to .85-6 lambda!

More info to come!
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Old 01-21-2011, 10:40 AM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Turner View Post
Its twin scroll until the gate opens, Then everything mixes.

C
so then the wastegate would have to be mounted to only one of the uppipes...if it is a y-pipe coming from each uppipe to the wastegate, then that acts like a balance pipe and bleeds the pulses across...so that would hinder pulse strength and signal and wouldn't be a twinscroll at all, really.

That is if I'm understanding what you are saying...
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Old 01-21-2011, 11:56 AM   #160
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I think what Clark is saying and from what i read on forums, the 1.5 scroll setups only have one wastegate(like you said) but its only on one of the tubes leading to the scrolls. This controls boost no problem but can cause a slight unbalance in exhaust back pressure between two cylinders. Not optimal but it does control boost.
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Old 01-21-2011, 01:46 PM   #161
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Some GTX3582 results from an extremely built 4G63:
http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-dyn...2007-a-34.html

They oversped the piss out of the thing, but went from ~640whp with a regular GT35 to ~740whp with the GTX.

Will be interesting to see the comparison to the STI.
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Old 01-21-2011, 02:13 PM   #162
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Interesting for sure! The biggest thing is i don't think we are going to be pushing to 700WHP where it might shine. Either way, I will be doing the same tests, same boost pressures and some road stuff. I will be doing this with the .63 AR first (most popular choice) then later on potentially the .82. But by then i hope to be testing something else.
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Old 01-23-2011, 04:13 AM   #163
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Jeff, no expert here but, wouldn't testing the GT and GTX's show a more accurate hp difference without using meth injection?

Doesn't the use of meth somewhat mask compressor inefficiencies, making the billet wheel seem less attractive especially at higher p/r's and rpm.

Just a thought.
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Old 01-23-2011, 12:29 PM   #164
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Could you please print the GTX3071 result vs the GT3076R result in the same graph, cause to my honest opinion that's what we should compare. If it works, in the end, we'll choose one wheel smaller for the same power goal.

Thnx

Erik
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Old 01-23-2011, 12:33 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hally
Jeff, no expert here but, wouldn't testing the GT and GTX's show a more accurate hp difference without using meth injection?

Doesn't the use of meth somewhat mask compressor inefficiencies, making the billet wheel seem less attractive especially at higher p/r's and rpm.

Just a thought.
I could turn off meth and do some more testing. My thoughts are that customers pushing these big turbos are running meth or e85 and sometimes race fuel Which all start to have the same issues masking compressor inefficiency.

Also keep mind that when you hit the edge if the compressor map power really falls off and adding more boost does nothing. Even with meth or race fuel you still see this effect. Since my runs were consistent with boost timing and fueling I feel that it still shows the GTX works.

If i redid the tests with pump fuel only I bet the gains would be similar but offset to lower hp numbers. Also I think it may have required me to tune the ecu between runs to test the limits of timing and AFR. Plus I don't think that 1.9bar runs would have been very good on pimp fuel. Still the power I showed is representing the higher flowing more efficient compressor wheel.

The GTX3582r tests will all have meth on to keep things consistent. But I may test it with no meth just for fun.
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Old 01-23-2011, 12:53 PM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch Devotion
Could you please print the GTX3071 result vs the GT3076R result in the same graph, cause to my honest opinion that's what we should compare. If it works, in the end, we'll choose one wheel smaller for the same power goal.

Thnx

Erik
Never dynoed the GTX3071r. But i have dynoed a GT3071r (version with same 60mm turbine as GT3076r) and there was zero spool difference on the Dyno.

We always tell customers, buy the turbo that fits your needs and nothing bigger as it will be slower responding for no reason. In the case of the GTX3071r, I see no reason to sell these as it should spool the same and will make less power than the GTX3076. What I would say is this customer should consider buying the GT3076r as it flows about the same and costs much less. Keep in mind I am guessing that the GTX3071 spools just like a GT3071 because of my results I found with the GT3076/GTX3076 comparison, and my GT3071/GT3076 comparison all using the same turbine wheel.

If you want more response than the GT3076r then you need to look at the GT3071r with the smaller 56.5mm turbine wheel. Garrett doesn't offer this with a GTx wheel which is too bad.
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Old 01-25-2011, 06:16 AM   #167
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That may be true with the exhaust energy from 2.5ltrs but I would think with 2ltrs the lower exhaust energy will spool the smaller compressor 3071 faster than the 3076.

The GTX3071 seems to have a very good turbine-compressor wheel ratio match so I would think it was an ideal turbo at least for the smaller displacement engines.
Would like to see some actual real data though.
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Old 01-25-2011, 10:55 AM   #168
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You may be right about the GTX3071 having a good turbine to compressor ratio, but the GT3076 is so close to that turbo that unless you plan to run 32psi on the GT3076R(one of the areas the GTX is more efficient) i think it would be hard to justify the added cost. Personally if cost was no object, i would get the GTX purely from the noise aspect. But i am getting old and super loud isn't cool to me anymore
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Old 01-30-2011, 07:21 PM   #169
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Quick update. GTX3582 w/.63 tested! After comparing turbine housing flow data I see why the results were not what I hoped.
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Old 01-30-2011, 08:13 PM   #170
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You're such a tease.
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Old 01-30-2011, 08:42 PM   #171
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This compares gtx3076r w.82 to a gtx3582r w.63.
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Old 01-30-2011, 08:51 PM   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PERRINJeff View Post
This compares gtx3076r w.82 to a gtx3582r w.63.
250rpm of extra lag.... how about the power potential?
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Old 01-30-2011, 08:59 PM   #173
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Well.... I will post up graphs tomorrow. Let's just say I was hoping for more.

350rpm slower spooling when header is hot and about 450-500 when warm.
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Old 01-31-2011, 02:16 AM   #174
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So GTX3076 w/0.82 vs. GTX3582 w/0.63. I would think the GTX35 would still have less exhaust backpressure even with the smaller A/R. I guess this is shown in the slower spoolup.

It looks like 1.9 bar again. Are you only taking it up to 7k rpms? I'm guessing that 1.9 bar and 7k rpms is still 'within' the map of the GTX3076. So any gains by the GTX3582 will be in the reduced backpressure and few points of better compressor efficiency at that flow point.

To see even more gains, I'd guess that you would have to either increase the boost or increase the rev limit where the GTX3076 would then be pushed beyond its limits.

So I guess the question becomes, was the power gain worth the slower spool up for this HP range? Just a lot of guessing on my part until you post the rest
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Old 01-31-2011, 06:54 AM   #175
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Very interesting
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