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Old 01-07-2011, 12:49 AM   #1
iyzmi
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2002 18g WRX
WRB 310hp/285tq

Default Considering getting re-tuned

I have an 02 WRX with the following mods:
TD-05 FP18g 7cm2 Turbo
650cc Deatschwerks (peak IDCs are 78% @ 6600rpm)
Cobb catted downpipe
Borla Hush catback
ERZ catless uppipe
Prodrive boost solenoid
Walbro 255lph pump
1-step colder iridium NGK's
SS Autochrome FMIC
GP Moto turbo inlet
K&N cone filter
AP V1

On the last tune it made 291awhp/276awtq @21-22psi. The previous owner says that this tune was very conservative and more power is still left on the table. Here is the dyno chart for it:


I would like to achieve 2 main things through a re-tune:
1. Reduce turbo lag. Right now, I only start making decent power at ~4,000RPM. This means that I have to go out of my way to actually take advantage of my car's performance. I'd like to start making decent power between 3-3.5k, with full boost around 4k. The fact that I have a FMIC and a 2.0l obviously don't work in my favor here, but I'm wondering how much could be done in the way of reducing lag.

2. I'd also like to make a bit more peak power. I'm basically wondering how much I could expect to make with my current setup running 93oct gas. Safety is still my #1 priority, since this is my DD. I will take a long lasting engine over a few extra hp any day (66.5k mi ATM). I also never launch the car or beat the crap out of the transmission, so I'm not TOO worried about that either. Granted, I still want for the tranny to SAFELY hold the power.

I'm pretty set on not adding any more performance mods at this point, but if there's anything worthwhile I can do for under ~$200, I would consider it so I'm open to suggestions. The tune would be performed at P&L Motorsports in IL.

Thanks in advance for the input!
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Last edited by iyzmi; 01-07-2011 at 01:02 AM.
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Old 01-07-2011, 01:01 AM   #2
Dave D.
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Those seem like pretty solid figures.

My best suggestion is this:

1) Return car to stock, sell.

2) Buy an 06 or 07 2.5 WRX.

3) Reinstall parts and retune.

I know this doesn't fit your budget but it might be a good long-term solution.
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Old 01-07-2011, 01:11 AM   #3
iyzmi
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If I wanted to or could afford an 07 WRX, then I wouldn't have got my bugeye 3.5 months ago.
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Old 01-07-2011, 07:16 AM   #4
mapleleaf
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Get a better flowing exhaust set up, MBC, try a different front mount(or switch to a top mount) and look into meth or E85.
If you have access to the corn juice, that will give you what you want. Sell your 650's and buy a set of 1000's.

Post a log so we can see what's up....
I'm sure a retune would not hurt.

Not sure why you are hung up on peak power if this is a DD. Maybe trying to fatten your powerband would help, a set of EL's would really improve this.
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Old 01-07-2011, 09:01 AM   #5
bgod
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You should get retuned either way.

Agile is on the east coast and you're located in WI.

That dyno chart is from 2007. You could have leaks, your injectors might not be performing optimally, etc. Tons of things can change in 3+years since having a tune.




Get a retune with a wideband and check for boost leaks before even considering making more power or more useable power.
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Old 01-07-2011, 10:31 AM   #6
Steve.804
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My 02 WRX with an 18G 8cm^2 and large TMIC made peak boost (20psi) @ around 3800rpms (turbo was also fully ported and thermal coated). Just keep in mind the ealier you make power your torque will increase which can lead to an earlier demise of your transmission. Also ported exhaust manifolds (or aftermarket EL manifold as suggested by mapleleaf) and aftermarket crosspipe will help with spool and top-end as well.
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Old 01-07-2011, 10:52 AM   #7
Dave D.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iyzmi View Post
If I wanted to or could afford an 07 WRX, then I wouldn't have got my bugeye 3.5 months ago.
Wow, the mileage looks good for the year! Yes, definitely keep it and there are some great suggestions here.
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Old 01-07-2011, 11:25 AM   #8
mapleleaf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve.804 View Post
My 02 WRX with an 18G 8cm^2 and large TMIC made peak boost (20psi) @ around 3800rpms (turbo was also fully ported and thermal coated). Just keep in mind the ealier you make power your torque will increase which can lead to an earlier demise of your transmission. Also ported exhaust manifolds (or aftermarket EL manifold as suggested by mapleleaf) and aftermarket crosspipe will help with spool and top-end as well.
Very similar to what my Greddy 8cm 18g did, though I ran 3 more psi on meth.
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Old 01-07-2011, 11:39 AM   #9
iyzmi
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Could I expect any improvement in power and lag reduction if I leave the car as is and don't buy any other parts for it?
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Old 01-07-2011, 11:48 AM   #10
mapleleaf
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You could, it's a roll of the dice.
You should have it freshened up as suggested and retuned.
I don't like running other people's set up's myself just because of the unknown's...
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Old 01-07-2011, 11:50 AM   #11
KIrbstermcgee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iyzmi View Post
Could I expect any improvement in power and lag reduction if I leave the car as is and don't buy any other parts for it?
Most likely a little better throttle response with a new tune. However with the fmic, full boost at 4k rpm is expected. I'm running the same turbo with a tmic and i see 22psi at 3600-3700 rpm.
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Old 01-07-2011, 10:58 PM   #12
iyzmi
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2002 18g WRX
WRB 310hp/285tq

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve.804 View Post
My 02 WRX with an 18G 8cm^2 and large TMIC made peak boost (20psi) @ around 3800rpms (turbo was also fully ported and thermal coated). Just keep in mind the ealier you make power your torque will increase which can lead to an earlier demise of your transmission. Also ported exhaust manifolds (or aftermarket EL manifold as suggested by mapleleaf) and aftermarket crosspipe will help with spool and top-end as well.
Forgive my ignorance, but what is a crosspipe? Also, roughly how much would it cost to get the exhaust manifold ported? Don't think I want to go EL...I like the boxer rumble.

EDIT: Nevermind, found the answers to both. Not sure if I would be able to pull the exhaust manifold on my own in my garage though. I'll have to look into it.

Last edited by iyzmi; 01-07-2011 at 11:19 PM.
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Old 01-08-2011, 12:22 AM   #13
iyzmi
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WRB 310hp/285tq

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If I did the Grimmspeed exhaust manifold PnP + crosspipe, would I be able to safely drive my car ~100mi to get it tuned?

I'm probably just going to get a re-tune and call it a day since the PnP (w/ new gaskets) + crosspipe package will end up costing nearly $400. Add that to the cost of tuning and it turns out to be quite a bit more then I'm looking to spend. But we'll see, just doing my research now, plenty of time to decide till spring.
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Old 01-08-2011, 01:32 AM   #14
pearljam11
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OP here's a link to your previous owner's Proven Power Bragging thread

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ighlight=agile
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Old 01-08-2011, 01:34 AM   #15
iyzmi
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WRB 310hp/285tq

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I know, I've had it bookmarked since I got the car. Thanks though.
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Old 01-08-2011, 01:44 AM   #16
pearljam11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iyzmi View Post
I know, I've had it bookmarked since I got the car. Thanks though.
Yeah that car definitely has more in it. Hill is a great tuner, why did they go so conservative? I'd expect around 310 for that turbo/motor
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Old 01-08-2011, 01:58 AM   #17
iyzmi
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WRB 310hp/285tq

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I think the idea was to keep the tranny happy. I guess it's easier on the tranny to have so little torque at RPMs where I would normally shift at. 310 is actually what I would hope for with a retune. I would start to be a bit worried about the tranny though, especially if the torque got into the 300s as well. Still think I should be ok though as long as I continue to never launch it.
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Old 01-08-2011, 02:34 AM   #18
GundamFan
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Sounds like u want 16g spool w 20g power. U could swap to a 8cm^2 turbine housing for more top end but you wont be increasing spool without more displacement or somd porting mods.
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Old 01-08-2011, 01:40 PM   #19
pearljam11
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FWIW the 2.0L doesn't really make good power with upgraded turbos until ~3700+. Even my vf39'd wrx doesn't really pull until what feels like around 4k
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Old 01-08-2011, 01:53 PM   #20
notraceready
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If Jorge is still tuning at P&L then he might be able to do some magic. You could contact the guys there and get some direction from them.
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Old 01-08-2011, 06:26 PM   #21
iyzmi
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Jorge is still at P&L but I will probably be having Junior (from The Shop in CT) do the tune. Junior flies in to work at P&L quite often. My friend has gotten his car tuned by both of them with the same mods, and Junior got more power, while running 3psi less boost. My friend said that Junior tweaked Jorge's map and made it more efficient overall.

I'm not looking to be fully spooled by 3k or anything crazy like that. A bit more DD usable power between 2.5-4k is all I want, not A TON more power. Just enough so that I don't have to downshift into the 4k region to accelerate in certain situations. If I could reach full spool by 3.7k, that would be great; if not, I don't really care. I want my torque curve to be a bit more gradual.

Last edited by iyzmi; 01-08-2011 at 06:38 PM.
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Old 01-08-2011, 07:40 PM   #22
Paul
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i bet you with no changes Jr will make more power and spool faster. If i was in your shoes i would still add ported headers/crosspipe and maybe swap the fmic for tmic. Porting anything else will proly help alil also
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Old 01-08-2011, 07:42 PM   #23
notraceready
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Thanks for update on Jorge. I heard jr was doing tuning there and thought that Jorge had left. I got a great tune from Jorge and heard lots of gOod things about junior too.

I'd call the shop, though, and talk to them but there's some good ideas here but maybe more money than you want to spend. 3 years is a long time between tunes like someone else said so it's worth a try IMO.
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Old 01-08-2011, 07:53 PM   #24
iyzmi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul View Post
i bet you with no changes Jr will make more power and spool faster. If i was in your shoes i would still add ported headers/crosspipe and maybe swap the fmic for tmic. Porting anything else will proly help alil also
I am considering PnP/crosspipe. The thing is, I can probably make 300-310hp/tq as the car sits right now. I really don't want to go too far over those numbers even if I could because that's when I would start to fear for the tranny. So the added 10-15hp that would come from the PnP/crosspipe, almost seems pointless because if I take advantage of that small boost in power, I risk blowing the tranny; and I'm definitely not ready to spend $5k on an STi 6spd or better gears. Does this sound logical or am I missing something here?

As far as swapping out the FMIC for a TMIC, it just seems like too much work to be worth it. I wish the original owner just went the TMIC route in the first place, but what's done is done. I don't want to deal with uninstalling the FMIC, and I don't want to deal with selling it. Plus, on the bright side, it does help with peak power and I can access my transmission dipstick super easily now, which is nice. I've already gone out of my way to install a custom made grille over the intercooler to both protect it, and make it more stealthy. All that effort would have been wasted if I end up with a TMIC.

Last edited by iyzmi; 01-08-2011 at 07:58 PM.
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Old 01-08-2011, 08:02 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iyzmi View Post
Jorge is still at P&L but I will probably be having Junior (from The Shop in CT) do the tune. Junior flies in to work at P&L quite often. My friend has gotten his car tuned by both of them with the same mods, and Junior got more power, while running 3psi less boost. My friend said that Junior tweaked Jorge's map and made it more efficient overall.

I'm not looking to be fully spooled by 3k or anything crazy like that. A bit more DD usable power between 2.5-4k is all I want, not A TON more power. Just enough so that I don't have to downshift into the 4k region to accelerate in certain situations. If I could reach full spool by 3.7k, that would be great; if not, I don't really care. I want my torque curve to be a bit more gradual.
Hi,
I just wanted to clear up 2 things here. I don't tune at TheShop CT anymore. I haven't since late May. I Tune out of TurboTrix Racing, P&L Motorposrts and as well as a few other small shops.
I have tuned a lot of cars at P&L and I just wanted to clarify that I cant tweak Jorge's Maps. I usually do a baseline on the car as it comes in and then load my own map. 90% of the cars I have tuned at P&L are Cobb AP cars, so the maps are locked to the tuners ProTuner Key. You probably just misunderstood your buddy. No worries, I just wanted to make sure to post that right info.

Onto the important stuff
3yrs is a long time and while some of the smaller setups don't really change over time its still worth having it looked at. Maybe just bring it to a local dyno to see if anything is off. Then if you are not happy and or find an issue call up P&L or whoever you choose and setup an appointment.

Hope this helps!!

Jr
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