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Old 01-05-2011, 08:48 AM   #1
GoofyLGT
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Default ej257 pinned sleeves

Can you pin the stock sleeves? Also my motor is already assembled, would I need to disassemble it before pinning? One more thing if you've had this done can you tell me how much the price was? I called my local machine shop and the have never heard of it.

Thanks.
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Old 01-05-2011, 10:22 AM   #2
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pinning is old school and done numerous times before. You'll want to tear down the motor to have this done.
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Old 01-05-2011, 11:05 AM   #3
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I don't understand why you would pin a stock sleeve. they crack at the case bolt relief. Not sure how a pin would ever help this relief area?

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Old 01-05-2011, 11:29 AM   #4
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more specifically cylinder #4 as it has the deepest relieve and thus thinnest wall of any of the cylinders.
Yes, it has still been seen to crack when converted to a 'closed deck'. Only solution IMO is to add more iron, very hard iron. I like Darton
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Old 01-05-2011, 12:10 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
more specifically cylinder #4 as it has the deepest relieve and thus thinnest wall of any of the cylinders.
Yes, it has still been seen to crack when converted to a 'closed deck'. Only solution IMO is to add more iron, very hard iron. I like Darton
+1 for Darton. Problem solved.

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Old 01-05-2011, 01:04 PM   #6
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How much does it run to have those sleeves installed?

The reason I ask is because I have the following;

Cobb Forged rods
JE pistions
Acl bearings
arp rod bolts
stock polished sti crank.

I feel the thing that will fail me are the sleeves, I thought pinning them would help I suppose not. Any info will help, I see that I can buy the sleeves for 300-500, just need installation cost. I know it will vary, just looking for a ball park figure.
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Old 01-05-2011, 01:07 PM   #7
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I had Darton do mine, it was $1,250 + shipping (~$150 total) Call them to check current pricing

then you need to have the block bored, final hone, and line honed at your local machine shop
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Old 01-05-2011, 02:55 PM   #8
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maybe subaru should stop using gray iron as sleeves, or at least a higher grade of it. let's up the antee.
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Old 01-05-2011, 02:56 PM   #9
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How much power will a stock sleeve hold? I Know this can be a vague answer, but I aiming at 500 whp.
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Old 01-05-2011, 03:01 PM   #10
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Anywhere from stock hp to 600whp.... It's all in the tune....
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Old 01-05-2011, 04:29 PM   #11
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I dont like sleeved blocks as every block ive seen the liners drop after a few thousand miles.

I pinned my 257 block.



Before anyone asks, this is in the UK
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Old 01-05-2011, 07:53 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frayz View Post
I dont like sleeved blocks as every block ive seen the liners drop after a few thousand miles.

I pinned my 257 block.



Before anyone asks, this is in the UK
You have seen a set of AEBS sleeves drop?
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Old 01-05-2011, 08:28 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frayz View Post
I dont like sleeved blocks as every block ive seen the liners drop after a few thousand miles.

I pinned my 257 block.



Before anyone asks, this is in the UK
I'll ask you this? have you ever seen and EJ207 or EJ257 cylinder shift/walk/crack at the base? I have not.
Makes me wonder what's the point on pinning?

Now I think we all know that they crack when the cylinder walls are notched for the case bolts. Cracks that also start at the top of the cylinder. Seems like a bad idea to that that weakness and repeat it numerous times in an attempt to stop a seeming non-existent problem.
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Old 01-05-2011, 09:04 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frayz View Post
I dont like sleeved blocks as every block ive seen the liners drop after a few thousand miles.

I pinned my 257 block.



Before anyone asks, this is in the UK
Really, that sucks mate. My guy here has sleeved 100's of blocks and has never had one drop...
If you know what your doing i don't see how it can drop. The darton sleeves are stepped at the top so if it's machined right there's no way it can fall IMO....
My guy Freezes the sleeves and heats the block when he presses them in...
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Old 01-05-2011, 09:19 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoofyLGT View Post
How much does it run to have those sleeves installed?

The reason I ask is because I have the following;

Cobb Forged rods
JE pistions
Acl bearings
arp rod bolts
stock polished sti crank.

I feel the thing that will fail me are the sleeves, I thought pinning them would help I suppose not. Any info will help, I see that I can buy the sleeves for 300-500, just need installation cost. I know it will vary, just looking for a ball park figure.
call dan bensons machine.
gauranteed not to drop.
hes blocks supports over 1000hp and over 50lbs of boost.
and hes way cheaper than darton.
i just got mine in the mail from him last week.
guys super cool. oldschool dude that works by himself. he does all the laskey racing engines for the big honda guys. his sleeve design was so good darton copied it
in fact i talked to dominic at mps about him and dom called him and sounds like they are gonna start using him to do their sleeves.
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Old 01-05-2011, 09:21 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waynoSTI View Post
My guy Freezes the sleeves and heats the block when he presses them in...
thats what my guy said he does. plus some other secrets that he uses.
like 4th axis wet cnc machines and tolerances.
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Old 01-05-2011, 09:39 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodiedon20s View Post
call dan bensons machine.
gauranteed not to drop.
hes blocks supports over 1000hp and over 50lbs of boost.
and hes way cheaper than darton.
i just got mine in the mail from him last week.
guys super cool. oldschool dude that works by himself. he does all the laskey racing engines for the big honda guys. his sleeve design was so good darton copied it
in fact i talked to dominic at mps about him and dom called him and sounds like they are gonna start using him to do their sleeves.
so you post all this awesome information but no pics of the block or a price to do this . . . .

EPIC FAIL
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Old 01-05-2011, 10:04 PM   #18
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ive gotten my block sleeved pinned and o-ringed by turbotrix here in new jersey. paid roughly 1250 that included the block being decked and honed and cleaned. ill see if i can find any pics of my block. the pins are a nice touch to a sleeved block to help hold the sleeves from dropping plus can help hold some more boost.
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Old 01-05-2011, 11:12 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THE_SMURF

so you post all this awesome information but no pics of the block or a price to do this . . . .

EPIC FAIL
Call em up. Hel tell you how much it cost. I'll go take a pic but it just looks like a sleeved block lol
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Old 01-05-2011, 11:29 PM   #20
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sleeves will only drop if its a bad install.
too much pressure on the case and you can crack em. not enough pressure and you dont seat them all the way in. thats what dan told me.
hes fine tuned it. been sleeving blocks for over 20 years




still undecided if i want a long rod destroked 2.5 or just a long rod 2.5
but ill have to talk with dominic. dropping my block and a roll of green of next friday.
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Old 01-06-2011, 12:33 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
I'll ask you this? have you ever seen and EJ207 or EJ257 cylinder shift/walk/crack at the base? I have not.
Makes me wonder what's the point on pinning?

Now I think we all know that they crack when the cylinder walls are notched for the case bolts. Cracks that also start at the top of the cylinder. Seems like a bad idea to that that weakness and repeat it numerous times in an attempt to stop a seeming non-existent problem.
This has been done a few times here in the UK to seemingly very good effect. Yes the blocks are known to fail in the OEM notched areas. However in OEM form they are not supported at these notched areas. My block clearly is with the addition of the pins.

Quote:
Originally Posted by waynoSTI View Post
Really, that sucks mate. My guy here has sleeved 100's of blocks and has never had one drop...
If you know what your doing i don't see how it can drop. The darton sleeves are stepped at the top so if it's machined right there's no way it can fall IMO....
My guy Freezes the sleeves and heats the block when he presses them in...
Yes every set i have seen or heard of dropping have also been the top hat design. I would love to have a reliable linered block but due to all these issues i simply do not trust them.

I know you guys in the US have had good success with them. However its very hit and miss here. Enough to make me rather the pinning process should speak volumes about my lack of trust in linered blocks
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Old 01-06-2011, 01:13 PM   #22
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Thick ej20 cylinder walls FTW. I thought about pinning my ej205 open deck, but after reading a few threads the thick cylinder walls would suffice.
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Old 01-06-2011, 02:01 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
more specifically cylinder #4 as it has the deepest relieve and thus thinnest wall of any of the cylinders.
Yes, it has still been seen to crack when converted to a 'closed deck'. Only solution IMO is to add more iron, very hard iron. I like Darton
So far our closed deck block has held up great, and we cracked a stock case 150hp ago. However we've only had it in for one season, so I can't rule out that it won't eventually happen.
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Old 01-06-2011, 03:09 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frayz View Post
This has been done a few times here in the UK to seemingly very good effect. Yes the blocks are known to fail in the OEM notched areas. However in OEM form they are not supported at these notched areas. My block clearly is with the addition of the pins.



Yes every set i have seen or heard of dropping have also been the top hat design. I would love to have a reliable linered block but due to all these issues i simply do not trust them.
Well only saw your cyl 1/3 half of the block...but yes, you add some support but it only helps to reduce the deflection of the cylinder wall some. doesn't actually STRENGTHEN the cyilnder wall.

I do understand your weariness of sleeving as you've only had bad experiences. Using a good CNC with accurate code, the single biggest cause of failure IMO is the RA finish and lack of cleaning surfaces prior to install the sleeve. In other words, their is material that can still be compressed under pressure and the sleeve will finish 'seating' after heat cycles and pressure.

I've never had an issue or heard of a dropped sleeve with the shop that I've used. I actually wrote the EJ block code there so I get special pricing


Quote:
Originally Posted by Harman Motive, Inc. View Post
So far our closed deck block has held up great, and we cracked a stock case 150hp ago. However we've only had it in for one season, so I can't rule out that it won't eventually happen.
I know it helps and I'm not saying it doesn't. I am however saying, they'll stick crack. I've seen it. I have yet to see a big bore sleeve crack/split. Now there are issues with poor machining and installation that need to be paid attention...so don't skimp on the machine shop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NITROS View Post
Thick ej20 cylinder walls FTW. I thought about pinning my ej205 open deck, but after reading a few threads the thick cylinder walls would suffice.
I wouldn't just say that but that they don't have stress risers machined into the block from the factory.
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Old 01-06-2011, 03:51 PM   #25
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I'm a noob to sleeves but tell me this, Why cant i have the best of both worlds.. A darton sleeve but no cooling issues on the track..


Take a darton sleeve, pressure it in but have it 1/2 the thickness it is now ??
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