Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Saturday September 20, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > News & Rumors > Non-Subaru News & Rumors

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-06-2011, 04:16 AM   #1
AVANTI R5
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 73805
Join Date: Nov 2004
Default New Audi A9 guns for Panamera




Quote:
Audi is pursuing ambitious plans for a technologically advanced, luxuriously equipped coupé-like saloon called the A9.

It’s conceived to sit at the very top of Audi’s line-up as a high-priced rival to the Mercedes-Benz CL and Porsche Panamera, as well as a forthcoming production version of the BMW GranCoupé concept, due in early 2012.

The new four-door forms the centrepiece of a new model programme that aims to provide Audi with an overtly sporting sister model to the third-generation A8 — a move the German car maker has already mirrored lower down in its line-up with the four-door A7 and seventh-generation A6.

“The project isn’t officially confirmed for production, but work is progressing on the business case, both at an accountancy and engineering level,” an Audi insider revealed.

Adding further intrigue to the new car is news that Audi bosses are considering an aluminium spaceframe structure and key components of the MLB (Modularen Längsbaukasten, modular longitudinal architecture) driveline architecture earmarked for the A9 to provide a suitable basis for a production version of Lamborghini’s spectacular Estoque concept car.

The lightweight structure and the air-sprung chassis it supports are based on those already used by high-end A8s, which is assembled on its own dedicated production line at Audi’s Neckarsulm factory. By using a common platform architecture for all three cars, Audi hopes to reap added synergies — both in purchasing and production activities.

In a move similar to that undertaken with the R8 and Gallardo, Audi and Lamborghini are looking towards the A9 and Estoque to provide sufficient production commonality and economies of scale to make both cars a viable production proposition.

In an interview with Autocar, Lamborghini boss Stephan Winkelmann said, “We couldn’t approach a thought like this [production of the Estoque] without the VW Group. It’d be very difficult to do something. The investments are so high that if you don’t have synergies, it’s financially impossible.”

Although the two cars will share a common structure and chassis, Autocar understands the A9 and Estoque will use different engines in a bid to give them unique characters. The former appears likely to run a newly developed 4.0-litre V8 and possibly a 6.3-litre W12 in top-of-the-line form, together with V6 and V8 diesel units, while the latter is set to receive Lamborghini’s 5.2-litre V10, as used by the Gallardo.

“It [a third model] would need to have the core values of Lamborghini; the touch, feel and sound would all have to be consistent with Lamborghini,” said Winkelmann.

While the A9 is planned to compete alongside the CL and Panamera, the Estoque will be priced further upmarket, where it is set to square up against the Bentley Continental GT, Aston Martin Rapide and a successor to the Ferrari 612 Scaglietti.

With Audi looking to use the A8 as the donor for the new A9, Ingolstadt’s new range-topping model is clearly set to be among its most imposing, with dimensions tipped to mirror those of the company’s flagship saloon, which measures 5140mm in length and 1950mm in width and rides on a 2990mm wheelbase.

By comparison, the Estoque concept, which is said to closely resemble the new production version of the four-door Lambo, stretches to 5148mm in length and 1991mm in width, and uses a 2997mm wheelbase.

It is not known yet what form the new Audi is planned to take. The earlier A5 and A7 use fastback designs, with a large tailgate providing access to the boot. A similar layout would be possible with an aluminium spaceframe structure, although it remains to be seen whether a fastback design would receive customer acceptance.

By contrast, the Estoque is expected to stick with the classic three-box design first previewed by the concept at the 2008 Paris motor show.
http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsAr...llCars/254732/
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
AVANTI R5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2011, 07:59 AM   #2
SCRAPPYDO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Just outside of Houston TX
Vehicle:
2013 F150 King Ranch
Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000

Default

wow, that is just beautiful
SCRAPPYDO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2011, 09:55 AM   #3
MrSaabaru
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 74709
Join Date: Nov 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Fort Wayne-ish
Vehicle:
2007 Solstice
05 Yamaha R6 & 04 Saab 93

Default

shouldn't it be uglier if it's gunning for the panamera?
MrSaabaru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2011, 01:31 PM   #4
PlanB
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 175608
Join Date: Mar 2008
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: British Columbia
Vehicle:
2006 Impreza
1998 Honda VFR 800FI

Default

You knew this was coming since the Panamera was (to me anyway) a surprisingly successful seller in its first few years.

As soon as Audi realized there was a niche there with this car (Panamera) it was going to happen. If the Panamera was a disaster, I doubt we'd see the A9.
PlanB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2011, 02:42 PM   #5
Siper2
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 1134
Join Date: Mar 2000
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Dillsburg, PA
Vehicle:
2007 BMW 328xi wagon
Silver

Default

Wow. Audi definitely has some of the best designers out there, bar none. I just got back from Europe, and saw quite a lot of them while I was there. Saw a very striking S5 while I was walking around, one day - they really knock your socks off.
Siper2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2011, 11:26 PM   #6
BlaineWasHere
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 165271
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NorCal
Vehicle:
2013 FR-S

Default

That's Rapide hot!
BlaineWasHere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2011, 12:12 AM   #7
HipToBeSquare
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 119958
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: (IA) flyover cornfield country
Vehicle:
1992 SVX LS-L

Default

How is this different than the A7?

If they are different, and there is a business case for two of those cars... how come there isn't a business case for the A5 Sportback in the US, or for the Quattro Sport to be something more widespread and attainable than a rare expensive toy?
HipToBeSquare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2011, 12:40 PM   #8
E. Nick
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 8489
Join Date: Jul 2001
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Atherton, CA
Vehicle:
1978 Plymouth Volare
Maroon / White Vinyl

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSaabaru View Post
shouldn't it be uglier if it's gunning for the panamera?
A9 looks hot, and nice motor choices (of course we won't get the big diesels)
E. Nick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2011, 12:51 PM   #9
JuggernautTCW
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 169223
Join Date: Jan 2008
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
How is this different than the A7?

If they are different, and there is a business case for two of those cars... how come there isn't a business case for the A5 Sportback in the US, or for the Quattro Sport to be something more widespread and attainable than a rare expensive toy?
being attainable is bad for the business for luxury automakers like audi and porsche. having more of those cheaper suckers on the streets will only dilute the brand and make it less exclusive.

i personally feel that porsche should just drop all base 911 models and only keep turbo and GT variants. audi has done well by increasing their MSRP year after year. i cant possibly justify paying msrp for an R8 with power from only a 4.2L, but audi had no trouble selling every single one of them. now i wish GM could just re-design the C6 vette to compete with the looks of those supercars.
JuggernautTCW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2011, 12:54 PM   #10
REX8
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 24038
Join Date: Sep 2002
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Godspeed Cale...
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JuggernautTCW View Post

i personally feel that porsche should just drop all base 911 models and only keep turbo and GT variants.


If anything is "diluting" their brand (and if by diluting, you mean saving their ass), it's the Box/Cayman/Cayenne.

$80-90k base 911s are diluting their image?

Porsche would have been out of business a long time ago if they only sold the 911, let alone only sold GT/Turbo versions.

Where you serious with that post? They'd be out of business in a heartbeat.

Guess what Audi makes all its money on? Or, right, the A4. Brilliant strategy.
REX8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2011, 02:20 PM   #11
HipToBeSquare
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 119958
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: (IA) flyover cornfield country
Vehicle:
1992 SVX LS-L

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JuggernautTCW View Post
being attainable is bad for the business for luxury automakers like audi and porsche. having more of those cheaper suckers on the streets will only dilute the brand and make it less exclusive.

i personally feel that porsche should just drop all base 911 models and only keep turbo and GT variants. audi has done well by increasing their MSRP year after year. i cant possibly justify paying msrp for an R8 with power from only a 4.2L, but audi had no trouble selling every single one of them. now i wish GM could just re-design the C6 vette to compete with the looks of those supercars.
Porsche Boxster/Cayman is attainable. I really want one of those. I wish they were as good looking as they could be. Porsche could make them look more like the 918 concept (not entirely in all the blingy details, but in terms of general body lines and proportions, they could do it.)

Even base 997 models are mostly attainable. Even if they aren't very affordable new... they are affordable used before they become classics that need to be preserved, rather than truly used as transportation.

Audi has some pricepoints that overlap Porsche, and I would not necessarily call the A7, A8 and R8 attainable... but A4, A5, A6 and TT are.

Attainable, in my terms, are cars that can be purchased and maintained as a new or used car, on a disciplined budget for most of the population within a few standard deviations of average income.

Unattainable cars are those that require high buy in prices, and high maintenance costs, usually over 100K when new, and built in very limited numbers. Cars that would put serious stress on an average budget, even as a used car. Even if the purchase price depreciates, the maintenance costs usually stay high.

Why doesn't the Cayman look like this:


Why does the 370Z have to look so hideous, when the Z32 300ZX looked so fantastic? or the RX8 compared to the FD and even FC RX7s.

Why does the Audi Quattro Sport rumored to be highly expensive if it gets produced, rather than having a base model option near the A4's price point, and moving up to an S- model, and an RS- model that is like the concept's specs?

Why does the Lotus Elite have to be a 190K car? Why not a normal GT Coupe closer to 45-50K... based on the Lexus IS? Or why isn't the Lexus IS a sleek looking coupe that looks like the Lotus Elite concept? (leave the sedan duty to the GS that actually has some practical room in the back seat area.)

Why does the WRX STI have to look like Quasimodo, the hunchback of the auto industry, just because it has in the past not been graciously designed?

There is no reason for the bodywork on a 40-50K car to look bad, or for a good looking body design to require an 80-100K+ price tag. Obviously the inverse isn't required for an expensive car to look good, if you've seen pictures of the Gumpert Apollo, or the Lexus LF-A...

There is never a shortage of unattainable gorgeous limited edition cars for the wealthy. I am not suggesting that those not be made.

All I am saying, is THROW ME A FRICKEN' BONE, HERE. All I want is a sports car that is fun to drive, looks gorgeous, and is possible for me to own at some point. With a fricken laser beam attached to it's head.

Attainable cars are declining at least in aesthetics, if not other areas as well such as actual fresh thinking innovation, and all the aesthetically gorgeous cars are almost exclusively unattainable. A great car and attainability are not supposed to be that mutually exclusive. It is making me ill-tempered!
HipToBeSquare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2011, 03:35 PM   #12
PlanB
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 175608
Join Date: Mar 2008
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: British Columbia
Vehicle:
2006 Impreza
1998 Honda VFR 800FI

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post

Unattainable cars are those that require high buy in prices, and high maintenance costs, usually over 100K when new, and built in very limited numbers.
I disagree. The reason I drive a Subaru (I'm happy with it, don't get me wrong) and NOT a new A4 Avant is because the Audi is unattainable to me (even at only around $45,000CND) and I do not think I am alone in this situation.

Cars do not have to be six-figures when new to be unattainable as you suggest.
PlanB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2011, 04:34 PM   #13
HipToBeSquare
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 119958
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: (IA) flyover cornfield country
Vehicle:
1992 SVX LS-L

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlanB View Post
I disagree. The reason I drive a Subaru (I'm happy with it, don't get me wrong) and NOT a new A4 Avant is because the Audi is unattainable to me (even at only around $45,000CND) and I do not think I am alone in this situation.

Cars do not have to be six-figures when new to be unattainable as you suggest.
Ok... I can see your point there... Especially for a relatively new, under-warranty daily driver.

I was going for more generally unattainable to people around the average income level... and unattainable all the time, even as used cars.

I have no problem continually buying used cars, rather than new cars. 15-20K goes a lot farther for a range of cars 2-5 years old than a new car that instantly depreciates on you. I would consider a used Audi compared to a new Subaru. I would almost certainly buy a well equipped, nice, used A5 or even A4 over a brand new Legacy if I had the cash in hand today. I couldn't stand to see the Legacy in my driveway every day, and be depressed by the sheer appliance-ness of the looks.

More specifically, what has really been irking me lately, is that even sports cars are becoming harder to come by... even in the longer term.

Even if I am disciplined and save what I can, and amass some cash for a toy car that I can keep and care for, and have solely because I enjoy having it, driving it, polishing it, etc... and drive other cars through the snow and the slop, and general every-day slogging...

What would I be able to buy, new or used? A lot of the 90's era cars are getting old enough, and out of production long enough that parts are getting scarce, and manufacturers usually stop making replacement parts 10 years after the end of the line.

Those cars can be had, but are getting to the point of more polishing in the garage for a car show downtown, and less "lets go ahead and take the nice car on our weekend road-trip." because one wouldn't want to have the car stranded by a broken part that isn't readily available even in a day or two, or something... and just keeping it nice by keeping it in the garage.

Porsche Caymans and Boxsters aren't bad at all... I just wish they were as gorgeous as Porsche is capable of making them.

Other gorgeous cars that I see in the news almost all seem to be above the mark of EVER being affordable on a budget, not just unaffordable now.

If I knew of a new 60K car that I absolutely loved everything about... I could dream about owning it in 5-10 years or so, when the price is much lower, and the car is still serviceable, and useable, before it enters "classic" territory.

A 200K car will never depreciate to the point where it is affordable to maintain, due to the materials and specific skill set usually required to support one.

Even cars like Ferrari 355s, or even further back like 308/328s... nice cars. Maybe even possible to swing 20-30K to buy one after saving with some discipline. But the first Ferrari labor and parts service charge would put the car back on the market in order to pay the bills on it. Those are the sort of cars that you should only buy one if you could afford to buy two. Even if the used price is attainable... the support makes it unattainable.

I try not to think of unattainable, or attainable based on my particular ability to pay right now... but the ability for anyone around average income levels to pay for it, ever.

If you have to be what Obama considers to be "rich" to afford it... that is rare, not mainstream. I don't begrudge them their wealth, or the toys they can afford to buy. I don't think they should be penalized for being wealthy, that just makes it all the less likely for me and people like me to get better off, as well. I've never worked for a poor man, let alone gotten a raise from one.

I don't have to take their toys away to wish there were toys available that I could afford, now or in the future. I am sick of having to wish and being disappointed for the most part by the lack of selection, and I'd rather be able to actually plan for a truly great car that I could afford to have. Something more special than even having a nice daily driver, although I would like a nice daily driver.
HipToBeSquare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2011, 05:29 PM   #14
manticus
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 162857
Join Date: Oct 2007
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Calgary, AB
Default

I know I'm really, really, stupid... but isn't producing the same car through different names under slightly different price points sort of where GM got caught? One guy's shared product lines is another's brand engineering...
manticus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2011, 09:10 PM   #15
amdmaxx
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 31665
Join Date: Jan 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Northern NJ, USA
Vehicle:
2006 Saab 9-2x Aero
Black

Default

hot looking..
amdmaxx is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Audi A9 Concept AVANTI R5 Non-Subaru News & Rumors 23 05-25-2010 03:43 AM
Thanks for waiting: Porsche hands out free luggage for Panamera delay AVANTI R5 Non-Subaru News & Rumors 0 11-25-2009 08:38 AM
JMS Racelook for the new Audi A5 Coupe AVANTI R5 Non-Subaru News & Rumors 14 11-10-2008 02:13 PM
Five-cylinder turbo planned for new Audi TT-RS and RS3 AVANTI R5 Non-Subaru News & Rumors 36 08-23-2008 10:07 AM
New tortur...uh, gun for Iraq 1 Lucky Texan Off-Topic 37 01-26-2007 12:36 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.